Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Javron's aileron bellcrank is on the inboard side where Dakota's is in the middle.
Experimental Cub Kit with Slotted Wing 180 Hp and Big wheels any suggestions on kits
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Javron's aileron bellcrank is on the inboard side where Dakota's is in the middle.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Steve - you are correct
Bill
This Backcountry wing is a third position for the aileron horn. It's hard to see here, the horn is on the inboard hinge. Most of the aileron is outboard of the control horn. Steve, Where was the failure on the DC aileron?
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Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
There was no failure but they used a different alloy on the spar than the 3003 that Piper used. Ultimate load (3.6 x gross) deflected the wing 3/16" but no failure.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Is this a rev 3 wing? That is a long flap and a short aileron. The chord appears to have been increased by a considerable amount.
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pittsdriver
MEMBER
I see what confused me. The Dakota wing has the same three aileron hinges spaced the same as stock. The cable that comes up the rear strut goes to an extra idler pulley and the pulley that mounts off the lift strut bolt is moved 2 feet outboard. I just remembered that when you mentioned it Steve. The Javron wings have four aileron hinges and the second hinge is in position to use the stock pulley. With the extra hinge it seems like it would be as strong or stronger but I'm not an aircraft engineer. My friend is building a Javron and it isn't covered yet so I can check out the aileron.
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
Those are the photos I found, too. Yes, it looks like a fairly dramatic change. I just wish I could see the flaps up close, and maybe the wing structure uncovered, too.
But then again, I can understand them not wanting pirates like me mooching.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Notice that the flap slots leave an open gap when they are up. I would want those closed in the up position for maximum lift in cruise.
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
I saw that in an earlier picture taken from above and thought the same thing. But then there are Junkers flaps that are out there on their own.
It does seem like it would add drag in cruise.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
My thinking is that the leakage would move the center of lift forward which would pitch the nose upward increasing the fuselage drag.
The Junkers is a rather dirty airplane aerodynamically.
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
RV
What you have shown there is very similar to what I have going on with the stretch. At flaps 12-15 it will already have the lower slot exposed, its sealed at 0. Upper slot begins to open between 20-25. At 40-45 both slots exposed. I can get 48-50 degrees with this configuration. Upper seal is a mylar strip to flex with aileron surface and keep seal 0-minus 5.
What you have shown there is very similar to what I have going on with the stretch. At flaps 12-15 it will already have the lower slot exposed, its sealed at 0. Upper slot begins to open between 20-25. At 40-45 both slots exposed. I can get 48-50 degrees with this configuration. Upper seal is a mylar strip to flex with aileron surface and keep seal 0-minus 5.
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Southern Aero, What airfoil are you using? I experimented with moving the ailerons up in cruise on my 185. This was easy with the electric drooping system. In any position other than neutral the cruise speed was slower.
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
sky
Ha, its been a "secret" .......... Same as yours, just a little thicker ................. 13.5%. The -5 reflex to 12-15 degrees will be manual with electric flaps and electric trim. Something has to be electric or you would run out of hands on a go around. A lot of folks have been asking for info and pics. I'll get some pics up as soon as I get something "presentable". The fuselage is mostly done, looks like a bunch of rusty, burned up tubes at the moment and the basic wings are done. Will drop the fuselage down from hangar beam soon to finish interior/stringer attach stuff, mate everything up and build the struts.
Ha, its been a "secret" .......... Same as yours, just a little thicker ................. 13.5%. The -5 reflex to 12-15 degrees will be manual with electric flaps and electric trim. Something has to be electric or you would run out of hands on a go around. A lot of folks have been asking for info and pics. I'll get some pics up as soon as I get something "presentable". The fuselage is mostly done, looks like a bunch of rusty, burned up tubes at the moment and the basic wings are done. Will drop the fuselage down from hangar beam soon to finish interior/stringer attach stuff, mate everything up and build the struts.
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
Thanks for posting those images! That looks really cool. The mylar strip is something I hadn't considered.
Now I want to pry a little more--are you using slats as well? I seem to remember you had drawings for the L14.
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
flyrite, that reminds me of a question I've had for a long time on your plane. Did you have the bottom flap before adding the split flaps? If so, how effective was that by itself?
I was thinking it would have a lot of ground effect.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
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RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
Thanks Mike! Now I have something to study.
Vic
Vic
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Now I want to pry a little more--are you using slats as well? I seem to remember you had drawings for the L14.[/QUOTE]
Yup, but slats not slots as on the L14 very similar to the Helio
Yup, but slats not slots as on the L14 very similar to the Helio
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
Yup, but slats not slots as on the L14 very similar to the Helio[/QUOTE]
Not me. My customer. Yes on slats.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
Did you raise the ailerons too?
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
mike, Is there going to be a fairing (gap seal) installed on the trailing edge after covering or is the shape going to remain as it is shown in the picture?
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Charlie, I have an electric aileron drooping system. For an experiment I rigged it in order to move the neutral position of the ailerons in flight. This because Maule was advertising a reflex flap position for cruise. So I thought that I would see what would happen by reflexing the ailerons or with a slight droop. Any position other than in line like Cessna built it slowed the cruise speed. The up position dumped the trailing edge lift which is why I'm having reservations on that Rev 3 flap system.
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CamTom12
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Sounds like an interesting experiment. My flaps reflex slightly, but I don’t think I cruise fast enough to see a difference in speed. The airplane changes pitch attitude though.
I would guess that reflexed flaps might work better than ailerons due to washout, but that’s just a guess.
CamTom12
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
That makes sense, thanks!
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Yes. But with that said............ with this airfoil it may not be that beneficial. Testing will tell. If I get 3-4 knots out of it, it will be worth while. The "mixing system" will give me about 18-20 degrees total movement of flaps and ailerons. If the -5 works well, great. If not, it can be adjusted back to zero and not used to reflex. Reflex worked on the Maule but it has the same airfoil as the Pipers. It just killed some lift and got rid of some trim drag.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
There is one very big difference between the two airplanes. The Maule has a fixed stabilizer with trim tabs on the elevator. Reflexing the flap will effect the fixed position drag of the stabilizer. The Pipers have a movable stabilizer which neutralizes it's own drag generating position. Reflexing a Piper wing trailing edge will do nothing. Which is why my 185 slowed down with the ailerons deflected in either direction.
flyrite
Registered User
Lyons,GA
Yea , Bottom flap before split flaps. No noticeable lowering of stall speed, But was great for popping off ground and providing drag for landings. widened the cord to be flush with the bottom fuselage when deployed.
