...and that, I believe, is that. Best advice (at least IMO) on this thread.
Hand Propping
- Thread starter NunavutPA-12
- Start date
...and that, I believe, is that. Best advice (at least IMO) on this thread.
Colorado-Cub
MEMBER
Buena Vista, CO
There are many of us who hand prop every start every time as we lack the required starter, ring gear, and associated wiring. It is not an emergency procedure, it is an essential skill.
We consider a starter and ring gear a backup system, and a jump-pack something you keep around to charge your phone.
We consider a starter and ring gear a backup system, and a jump-pack something you keep around to charge your phone.
soyAnarchisto
MEMBER
Boulder, CO
My '56 180 didn't have a priming system. And my J3 didn't have a starter - so I learned both ways... On my big conti I would never pump the throttle unless the starter was turning for fear of induction fire. I never got to try hand starting the O-470 but after a few hundred hours of flying the J3, I think I could do it without killing anyone if I had to.
I'm not very experienced with hand propping, but I've had to do so a few times in the backcountry. When I was taught how to properly hand prop my Lycoming 0-320 by my mechanic (who thankfully flew over at just the right moment when I got stuck after my first off-airport landing), he emphasized that I should not do anything "as forcefully as I can". In fact, he specifically said that I should only use as much force as absolutely necessary and no more. The way he described it (and how I have practiced it since) reminds me of squeezing a trigger on a firearm rather than pulling or yanking the trigger. I pull it through the compression stroke and simply keep steady pressure on it until it swings. Pushing as forcefully as you can at any point could lead to a loss of balance, and that...well, nothing good can come of that.
windy
SPONSOR
Utah
A supercub pilot on this forum who shall remain nameless recently hand-propped his supercub after which his supercub proceeded to chop up a wing of a nearby supercub. Needless to say, the dead battery problem got expensive in a hurry. The point being:
Tie the tail down before you hand-prop the engine, or at least chock the wheels and be careful how far open you set the throttle; and
Don’t park your supercub where your buddy’s supercub can chop it up.
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Tie the tail down before you hand-prop the engine, or at least chock the wheels and be careful how far open you set the throttle; and
Don’t park your supercub where your buddy’s supercub can chop it up.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Good point windy. Once I had to hand prop an Ercoupe. Cracked the throttle, spun the prop, it started and immediately the throttle vibrated to wide open. Fortunately I had left all three tie downs connected to the airplane. They stretched out to their limits as the tail squatted to the ground. IF it had only been chocked, it would have gone airborne on it's own.
Fortunately in this case no harm was done and I learned a valuable lesson. Just because the throttle is only cracked DON"T trust it to not move on it's own.
DO NOT TRUST JUST USING CHOCKS!!!
Fortunately in this case no harm was done and I learned a valuable lesson. Just because the throttle is only cracked DON"T trust it to not move on it's own.
DO NOT TRUST JUST USING CHOCKS!!!
Little different but starting my c-90 when warm I usually shut the fuel off because if throttle isn't advanced enough it will flood (usually in front of a large crowd) then it has to be unwound a dozen blades, if you watch mountain men you can see how easy a super cub will start by watching Marty when the impulse coupling fires it's running and that will happen to a warm engine with no effort. Every engine likes something a little different so it's just a matter of learning yours.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Isn't this the point where we all tell 'those stories' about how this same thing happened to 'our buddy'? lol
Web
Web
Not my buddy, not me, but back in my late 'teens (now in my '60's), just after the old man showed me how to hand prop his 180 ("always tie the tail off"...), I was at the old strip that used to be midway between the Glenn / Parks Y and Wasilla, when I saw a hand prop event gone bad. Someone clearly: 1) didn't understand their throttle settings; 2) relied on brakes; and 3) didn't (don't know why) ask one of the bystanders to sit in the seat of the cub. It fired up with gusto and began doing circles on the ground as one tire more-or-less held position. The propper tried to hang on to the strut for about 2 revolutions but couldn't keep up and got run over by the rear-ward part of the cub (then ran away).
End result was that the cub was running at significant throttle, going in fast (ever slightly growing) circles for quite some time. After the bystanders were losing the battle to be able to move nearby plans out of harms way, they brought a dozer in and ended up letting the tail slam into that ...not pretty and I don't know what happened afterwards (other than someone was brave enough at that point to get in and shut things down) but there were Palmer, Wasilla (or ???) Fire Department, and AST personnel present, so that solution must of had some backing.
arcticairalaska
Registered User
Fairbanks, Alaska
mage
electronic mags
cubflier
MEMBER
Palmer, AK
Pulling my battery and starter for three months is how I ending up learning the ropes on prop starting. It was a good way to learn and I recommend it to anyone the feels like I do that this is an essential skill in the Backcountry. But time has also made me a fan of jump packs. Reading this thread and others it seems the sentiment for the EarthX jump pack has changed over time. I do remember some stellar posts in the past about the little packs performance jumping all kinds of stuff. I wonder what changed.
I have had MicroStart packs from the start and I'm still a big fan. But another member to the jump pack pile is the NOCO GB50. It was a gift from a friend that submerged it by carrying in his float compartment so it had to be resurrected from near death to include the over discharge of it's cells. Even with it's handicap it's amazing in so many ways. Has twice the throughput capability of the MicroStarts. It charges via 5V input, so a small backpack solar panel will pump it right back to full power on a sunny day. But the real big plus is it runs continuously in Boost (override) mode whereas the MicroStarts override is on a timer circuit of 30 seconds as I recall. This is handy for things like running air pumps, water pumps and the like. Other than that I just hooked it up to a 400 V8 in my 1982 F350 and it started it like it was glad to see me.
Jerry
I have had MicroStart packs from the start and I'm still a big fan. But another member to the jump pack pile is the NOCO GB50. It was a gift from a friend that submerged it by carrying in his float compartment so it had to be resurrected from near death to include the over discharge of it's cells. Even with it's handicap it's amazing in so many ways. Has twice the throughput capability of the MicroStarts. It charges via 5V input, so a small backpack solar panel will pump it right back to full power on a sunny day. But the real big plus is it runs continuously in Boost (override) mode whereas the MicroStarts override is on a timer circuit of 30 seconds as I recall. This is handy for things like running air pumps, water pumps and the like. Other than that I just hooked it up to a 400 V8 in my 1982 F350 and it started it like it was glad to see me.
Jerry
Primer for Injected as Well
Agreed. That goes for injected big bore Continentals as well. Primers were an option on 185's just for that dead battery scenario.
arcticairalaska
Registered User
Fairbanks, Alaska
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
Apparently they fizzle out. I've had one for almost two years and have used it to start a garden tractor and two cars. So it still works. I just wonder when it won't and why they discontinued them.
cubflier
MEMBER
Palmer, AK
No challenge here. Just wondering why? I've never owned an EarthX Jump Pack. What do you like about it over the NOCO GB?
Jerry
fancypants
FOUNDER
IL
Drifting from hand propping a bit, but since someone asked:
I've had a couple EarthX jump packs die on me. Dead cells. One was replaced under warranty, one wasn't. I've had mixed success with their phone/email support.
I rolled the dice again and bought one of their new 12V/24V jump packs at Oshkosh this year. I've got some projects where a good portable 24V supply could come in handy, and the new USB-C port was a big selling point for me. The first one they gave me wouldn't take a full charge, so I walked it back to their booth where they very quietly swapped it with a different unit. Seems they are pretty responsive to support requests when there are potential customers within earshot. Unfortunately, the USB-C port won't charge my iPad or Macbook. No response to my email asking about it. Haven't bothered to try bothering them again.
When they work, they're pretty great. I was impressed when it jumped my old diesel truck in winter. Not impressed when it wouldn't turn over a much smaller vehicle a couple months ago. Just not reliable in my experience.
I've had a couple EarthX jump packs die on me. Dead cells. One was replaced under warranty, one wasn't. I've had mixed success with their phone/email support.
I rolled the dice again and bought one of their new 12V/24V jump packs at Oshkosh this year. I've got some projects where a good portable 24V supply could come in handy, and the new USB-C port was a big selling point for me. The first one they gave me wouldn't take a full charge, so I walked it back to their booth where they very quietly swapped it with a different unit. Seems they are pretty responsive to support requests when there are potential customers within earshot. Unfortunately, the USB-C port won't charge my iPad or Macbook. No response to my email asking about it. Haven't bothered to try bothering them again.
When they work, they're pretty great. I was impressed when it jumped my old diesel truck in winter. Not impressed when it wouldn't turn over a much smaller vehicle a couple months ago. Just not reliable in my experience.
Each Jump Pack I’ve owned has easily started what I wanted it to start several times between charges. Rock solid performance. Never a single disappointment, and I use them a lot. The NOCO doesn’t have as much longevity for multiple starts and to me it didn’t seem to have the punch of a Jump Pack on the initial start. And I like that EarthX comes in a zippered case instead of a soft bag. I still have both types and will undoubtably use them this weekend. Very handy tools!
My big Yamaha snowgo has an issue that’s eluded me. That battery gave up quickly so I switch to using Jump Packs to spin the starter. The Jump Pack lasted longer than the NOCO in that demonstration but the motor still won’t start. I have no ill will toward NOCO. I’ll continue to use it. It’s in my day pack now.
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mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Stewart,
It sounds like you need to look into finding better “installed” batteries rather than stocking up on jump packs….…
Joking…believe me, I know the pain of electrical problems in cold. For several years Aviat installed an absolute POS battery in Huskys. It was a sealed gel pack that they also installed in the Pitts. Terrible battery, especially in cold. I hand propped those planes a number of times out in the pucker brush…..no “jump packs” of reasonable size available back then. The advent of the Odyssey battery fixed all those issues.
But, I carry a jump pack now in everything I own. Trying to use jumper cables to start someone else’s car from my car spooks me with all the gizmos in modern cars. Jump pack is safer.
MTV
It sounds like you need to look into finding better “installed” batteries rather than stocking up on jump packs….…
Joking…believe me, I know the pain of electrical problems in cold. For several years Aviat installed an absolute POS battery in Huskys. It was a sealed gel pack that they also installed in the Pitts. Terrible battery, especially in cold. I hand propped those planes a number of times out in the pucker brush…..no “jump packs” of reasonable size available back then. The advent of the Odyssey battery fixed all those issues.
But, I carry a jump pack now in everything I own. Trying to use jumper cables to start someone else’s car from my car spooks me with all the gizmos in modern cars. Jump pack is safer.
MTV
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
So far, I’m still having great service from Odyssey’s, but I’ve been hearing stories.
MTV
flynlow
FRIEND
Fowler, Ks
I propped a 200 horse RV8 when stranded on a deserted ramp after a fuel stop. It was a constant speed hartzell with some mass and didnt lose any fingers
I tied the tail down and it took a bit of effort on a heat soaked fuel injection
I had a RV 6 with a 3 blade Catto that was quicker spinning up that i was too nervous to prop
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I tied the tail down and it took a bit of effort on a heat soaked fuel injection
I had a RV 6 with a 3 blade Catto that was quicker spinning up that i was too nervous to prop
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Ive propped IO-520 with three blades, to verify I could do it. Just be careful where you touch the prop, and move hand away from prop quick.
Not something I’d do for fun. But if I’m stuck in middle of nowhere….
MTV
sjohnson
FRIEND
Boise, ID
I've had great experience as well, but also that Odysseys (and PowerSafe) do not like deep discharge. They do not come back from a severe discharge.
Dave Barras
FRIEND
New Iberia, LA
With an Odyssey on my welder I left the switch on once for a week and killed it. It was 2 years old. I had drained it
pretty low a couple times before.
Not even indicating 1vdc I thought it was toast and didn’t seem to want to take a charge.
with a 6amp automatic charger it took nearly 3 weeks and then lasted another couple years.
My experience in the plane is usually at least 6+years, the last one devolved a large lump protruding out of the bottom
but still starting the plane when I noticed it, and installed a new one.
pretty low a couple times before.
Not even indicating 1vdc I thought it was toast and didn’t seem to want to take a charge.
with a 6amp automatic charger it took nearly 3 weeks and then lasted another couple years.
My experience in the plane is usually at least 6+years, the last one devolved a large lump protruding out of the bottom
but still starting the plane when I noticed it, and installed a new one.
peterdillon
SPONSOR
On every floatplane we never turn the beacon off so its pretty hard to walk away and leave the master on. Saved quite a few dead batteries over the years. Cubs are pretty easy to hand prop as others have stated. Had a chronic starter problem on one that got us well practiced up. 3 blade on those big Continentals the worst for me. You wouldn't have probably suspected but the Beaver is the easiest of them all.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Slip a rope loop over the prop tip. Pull the rope fast while offset at 90* to the blade track so it don't slip too much. If it slips at first make a loop that can be tightened around the blade. Avoid rope if it starts.
Gary
Gary
