Good prop shop - Alaska?
- Thread starter JohnnyR
- Start date
md11freighter
FRIEND
Wasilla
Only prop shop in Anchorage left.....and its close to Mr Prime Beef!!
Turns out they are on MT’s shop list. I sent an email to Gerald and we’ll see what he has to say.
http://dominionpropeller.com/
http://dominionpropeller.com/
Nickel (supposedly!)
Exactly
Is there a pic? i don't see one attached to the thread.
I think MT props can also be serviced through Seaplanes North but they ship them out and can remove blades from hubs for shipping. Northwest Prop outside Seattle did my last MT overhaul and I have heard good things about American Prop in Redding, CA.
I saw Airframes has MT prop's but I think it's just for distro from Flight Resource, i don't think they handle any MT service.
I think MT props can also be serviced through Seaplanes North but they ship them out and can remove blades from hubs for shipping. Northwest Prop outside Seattle did my last MT overhaul and I have heard good things about American Prop in Redding, CA.
I saw Airframes has MT prop's but I think it's just for distro from Flight Resource, i don't think they handle any MT service.
Of interest to members - one can not simply replace a blade with the MT 3-blade units, at least not without courting balancing issues.
Upon advice from MT USA in FL, we're exchanging all three for an overhauled set to minimize downtime and guarantee a well balanced system after install. Otherwise, we might be chasing our tail for weeks upon weeks. The season is short.
This was a rare result from gravel wherein the face of the nickel edge collapsed in - likely from a squared off impact. Better for the prop to take damage than other parts. MT reported seeing only a handful of these results on the nickel leading edges. Also per MT - if the back face of the leading edge hadn't delaminated we might have been looking at a simple field repair.
I flew home for >200 air miles with this and there were no indications of damage during the flight (no vibrations, etc.). 400+ hours on these blades with frequent off-airport usage (often near gross) and this was the first leading edge damage we've had. Usually a bit of dust is the only evidence of picking up gravel.
Upon advice from MT USA in FL, we're exchanging all three for an overhauled set to minimize downtime and guarantee a well balanced system after install. Otherwise, we might be chasing our tail for weeks upon weeks. The season is short.
This was a rare result from gravel wherein the face of the nickel edge collapsed in - likely from a squared off impact. Better for the prop to take damage than other parts. MT reported seeing only a handful of these results on the nickel leading edges. Also per MT - if the back face of the leading edge hadn't delaminated we might have been looking at a simple field repair.
I flew home for >200 air miles with this and there were no indications of damage during the flight (no vibrations, etc.). 400+ hours on these blades with frequent off-airport usage (often near gross) and this was the first leading edge damage we've had. Usually a bit of dust is the only evidence of picking up gravel.
Attachments
supilot
FRIEND
Bummer. That’s interesting with regard to having to replace all 3 blades when one gets nicked. I don’t recall the sales team ever mentioning that to me when selling me a prop for the 180. Is this only a MT dilemma or does the same go with the all metal 3 blade Hartzel voyager for example I wonder
can you post a picture of the front face of the blade?
I didn’t quite say that. This is different than a nick - it’s a delamination of the leading edge, which is not field repairable. A nick is easily repaired and a dented leading edge is not much of an issue either. If it was simply the latter, I’d be off flying today.
supilot
FRIEND
Thanks. I guess regardless of the damage to a single blade, one would think that the single blade would be replaceable without doing all 3 and then follow with a static and dynamic balance given the tight tolerances of manufacturing. I could be wrong. I guess the biggest question is, what kind of down time are you looking at all said and done?
I have been using metal (Boer) props for over 40 years and have to admit I chopped a lot of brush over the years, I have heard good things about the new props and how light and how much they improved performance. I would only guess that some, such as myself should stay with metal props for off airport operations?
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Who knows?
I think this would have put an aluminum prop out of business. This wasn't vegetation...
I think this would have put an aluminum prop out of business. This wasn't vegetation...
I don’t know or care what caused the damage, I was just stating that with the type of flying many of us in Alaska do, we might need a prop that can take a lot more abuse than some of the newer performance props. Dominion prop shop in Anchorage won’t be holding any clearance sales in the near future from what I saw today.
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I agree that many of us need a durable prop. Not sure yet if I am ready to throw MT into the fragile category. How many aluminum props have been disabled by rocks in Alaska? As I wrote - the trip home was smooth as glass and the damage wasn’t even noted until prep for next flight. Most rocks I’ve slapped with that prop have been dusted by the nickel edge. You can armchair diagnose it all you want, but none of us can know whether this or that prop would have suffered more or less damage with that particular stone.
As for the downtime and getting this fixed/replaced/whatever - It doesn’t appear that it’s going to be even close to as simple as it would be with a common aluminum prop.
And that’s the rub. As a commercial pilot, I’m going to state right here that If I was flying this plane commercially in Alaska, I would not have an MT prop considering the way they have the business model set up now. Back in 2016 their sales rep stated that they were going to stage blade sets for props of common commercial planes at shops around the country where commercial operators congregated for “low cost, easy exchanges.” I’d expect a 180/185 would qualify as such around here. Yet, I now have to wait for blades to come up from somewhere in the lower 48 and I intend to discuss that weak link with MT’s N. America VP this week. Will report findings when I get some.
The plane is still flying smoothly and the MT factory doesn’t feel there’s any compromise in strength, for what it’s worth. Just have to get Jerry @ Dominion to fix the delamination with a new edge to make it look purty and stay together for long term. I don’t have time for that, hence replacing blades.
As for the downtime and getting this fixed/replaced/whatever - It doesn’t appear that it’s going to be even close to as simple as it would be with a common aluminum prop.
And that’s the rub. As a commercial pilot, I’m going to state right here that If I was flying this plane commercially in Alaska, I would not have an MT prop considering the way they have the business model set up now. Back in 2016 their sales rep stated that they were going to stage blade sets for props of common commercial planes at shops around the country where commercial operators congregated for “low cost, easy exchanges.” I’d expect a 180/185 would qualify as such around here. Yet, I now have to wait for blades to come up from somewhere in the lower 48 and I intend to discuss that weak link with MT’s N. America VP this week. Will report findings when I get some.
The plane is still flying smoothly and the MT factory doesn’t feel there’s any compromise in strength, for what it’s worth. Just have to get Jerry @ Dominion to fix the delamination with a new edge to make it look purty and stay together for long term. I don’t have time for that, hence replacing blades.
supilot
FRIEND
Yeah, once you are up and running again, I’d appreciate knowing how the timeline played out as well as how the dealings with MT went throughout the work. Granted it was a few years ago, but I’ve had friends have pretty rough and lengthy dealings with MT when it came to warranty work. Hope yours goes smoothly.
So, I was thinking of changing this thread title to "MT prop damage," but now that all the information is in I'm going to keep it as is because owning an MT propeller in Alaska means you are unavoidably buying into aspects of supply and service. Those aspects may change your purchase decision.
(Question: Are there current delays in delivery of Hartzell or McCauley blades and parts and assemblies?)
I had lengthy, open conversations today with both one of the owners of Flight Resource (MT distributor and broad STC originator) and the VP of MT-Propeller USA. We covered business development in Alaska, product support, qualified shop issues, and other topics related specifically to MT propellers sales and service in Alaska.
Takeaway: The issue with MT propellers in Alaska is not the field performance but rather the turn around time related to servicing and parts availability (or lack of). This may be changing with the recent merging of Flight Resource into McFarlane Aviation Products. More company assets = more capability/willingness to pay up front for stock sitting in Alaska.
Repair strategies for a delaminated leading edge: The leading edge on this particular MT blade could be repaired by Dominion or another trained shop. If time is on your side and a shop is ready and willing, get the leading edge replaced whilst on the hub and then get back after it. Cheaper but takes longer; sometimes much longer. Getting on the schedule can be an issue. And, while Dominion does work on MT, it is not a primary focus and I did not get a sense of enthusiasm for the work.
If you need to be flying as soon as possible, a new blade or set of blades is the solution. Seaplanes North can readily switch out the three blades and have the prop reinstalled during a business day. If you are a larger scale or wealthy commercial operator with little tolerance for down time, I would advise having either a full propeller assembly or at least a set of blades available for rapid repair. Given my discussion with Flight Resource on immediate availability in Alaska of ANY suitable manufacturer's blades or propeller assemblies, I'd advise the above no matter what you are swinging out front.
Note: The reasoning for replacing the set of blades rather than one is that the MT props are sensitive to tracking and balance. The factory mates three blades based off both factors in order to create the smooth operation for which these props are known and I can attest to (It's been an outstandingly smooth system in conjunction with the PPonk). If one blade is replaced, there is likely to be some fiddling with installation of weighting at the base of the blade in order to optimize balance, and the tracking may not be as precise as the matched set.
I want to point out that both Flight Resource (co-owners John & Larry) and MT-Propeller USA were immediately responsive, answering my outreach in the midst of a busy holiday weekend. I was duly impressed by both businesses. Both had blades in stock and were willing to express ship them up. MT-Propeller USA is packaging up blades today for shipment tomorrow to get us back in the air.
Would I purchase another MT?
For work planes - it depends. I'd like to see what McFarlane will do with regional stocking of assemblies and parts. They could do it at Seaplanes North or at Airframes Alaska, who is in the picture now as an MT dealer. It would help if those linkages are established. Local pilots bringing these concerns up to any of those businesses may help push along that decision.
For my personal plane - yes. The performance gains and the nature and strengths of composite construction are a worthy combination. I believe an aluminum blade would have suffered at least as much damage. Considering the 200+ air miles over remote mountainous terrain following the undiscovered damage, I've thought about where I might be right now instead of drinking a cup of coffee and finger-stabbing my keyboard if a section of that prop had separated in flight.
(Question: Are there current delays in delivery of Hartzell or McCauley blades and parts and assemblies?)
I had lengthy, open conversations today with both one of the owners of Flight Resource (MT distributor and broad STC originator) and the VP of MT-Propeller USA. We covered business development in Alaska, product support, qualified shop issues, and other topics related specifically to MT propellers sales and service in Alaska.
Takeaway: The issue with MT propellers in Alaska is not the field performance but rather the turn around time related to servicing and parts availability (or lack of). This may be changing with the recent merging of Flight Resource into McFarlane Aviation Products. More company assets = more capability/willingness to pay up front for stock sitting in Alaska.
Repair strategies for a delaminated leading edge: The leading edge on this particular MT blade could be repaired by Dominion or another trained shop. If time is on your side and a shop is ready and willing, get the leading edge replaced whilst on the hub and then get back after it. Cheaper but takes longer; sometimes much longer. Getting on the schedule can be an issue. And, while Dominion does work on MT, it is not a primary focus and I did not get a sense of enthusiasm for the work.
If you need to be flying as soon as possible, a new blade or set of blades is the solution. Seaplanes North can readily switch out the three blades and have the prop reinstalled during a business day. If you are a larger scale or wealthy commercial operator with little tolerance for down time, I would advise having either a full propeller assembly or at least a set of blades available for rapid repair. Given my discussion with Flight Resource on immediate availability in Alaska of ANY suitable manufacturer's blades or propeller assemblies, I'd advise the above no matter what you are swinging out front.
Note: The reasoning for replacing the set of blades rather than one is that the MT props are sensitive to tracking and balance. The factory mates three blades based off both factors in order to create the smooth operation for which these props are known and I can attest to (It's been an outstandingly smooth system in conjunction with the PPonk). If one blade is replaced, there is likely to be some fiddling with installation of weighting at the base of the blade in order to optimize balance, and the tracking may not be as precise as the matched set.
I want to point out that both Flight Resource (co-owners John & Larry) and MT-Propeller USA were immediately responsive, answering my outreach in the midst of a busy holiday weekend. I was duly impressed by both businesses. Both had blades in stock and were willing to express ship them up. MT-Propeller USA is packaging up blades today for shipment tomorrow to get us back in the air.
Would I purchase another MT?
For work planes - it depends. I'd like to see what McFarlane will do with regional stocking of assemblies and parts. They could do it at Seaplanes North or at Airframes Alaska, who is in the picture now as an MT dealer. It would help if those linkages are established. Local pilots bringing these concerns up to any of those businesses may help push along that decision.
For my personal plane - yes. The performance gains and the nature and strengths of composite construction are a worthy combination. I believe an aluminum blade would have suffered at least as much damage. Considering the 200+ air miles over remote mountainous terrain following the undiscovered damage, I've thought about where I might be right now instead of drinking a cup of coffee and finger-stabbing my keyboard if a section of that prop had separated in flight.
John Wayne with a walker!
Clearly I’m not against composite props. I think your rock hit would have taken out my WW, too. Bummer deal. I hope MT treats you fairly.
I’m surprised at the absence of chips on the back side of your blade. Have you been repairing them or just not getting them?
Clearly I’m not against composite props. I think your rock hit would have taken out my WW, too. Bummer deal. I hope MT treats you fairly.
I’m surprised at the absence of chips on the back side of your blade. Have you been repairing them or just not getting them?
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narrow deck
PATRON
Palmer, Ak
Me Too...... I love my Mac.......
Back in the air. Took 15 days and $7K to recover in AK from an MT prop getting gravel bit. That’s for removal, shipping both ways to FL, a set of overhauled “exchange” blades, assembly and mounting.
Various things slowed down our process, but I don’t think it could have been done in less than a week. Had to ship a set of blades up from Florida. The factory doesn’t like to sell individual blades because it messes up a factory-paired trio and (they say) ensures tracking + balance issues are minimized upon install. The new set is very smooth with no balancing needed.
I have no idea if replacing an aluminum blade from a Mac or Hartzell would have been easier or faster, or if the metal blade would have been destroyed or not.
Thinking on it, I suspect that the notably quicker spool-up of the lighter composite props could lead to increased risk of stone damage. I plan to monitor my pace on the throttle to keep from proving that hypothesis, but 400 hours of mainly off airport ops on the original set of blades and no previous damage, so...?
Various things slowed down our process, but I don’t think it could have been done in less than a week. Had to ship a set of blades up from Florida. The factory doesn’t like to sell individual blades because it messes up a factory-paired trio and (they say) ensures tracking + balance issues are minimized upon install. The new set is very smooth with no balancing needed.
I have no idea if replacing an aluminum blade from a Mac or Hartzell would have been easier or faster, or if the metal blade would have been destroyed or not.
Thinking on it, I suspect that the notably quicker spool-up of the lighter composite props could lead to increased risk of stone damage. I plan to monitor my pace on the throttle to keep from proving that hypothesis, but 400 hours of mainly off airport ops on the original set of blades and no previous damage, so...?
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frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
I've been following this with interest as I have a Hartzell Trailblazer composite prop. Hartzell list price for a single blade is $6,069 with a lead time of approximately 6 weeks from receipt of order. No assurance of balance match if a single blade is replaced.
Makes MT look good!
