• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Major or minor.

All of this information is useful.

Does the owner have any recourse if this guy refuses to sign any of the work he did, or the annual?

And is a typed name enough with an IA #, or does there have to be some version of a signature? Now that I look at these great responses, I am sorry I didn't start a new thread.
 
bob turner said:
All of this information is useful.

Does the owner have any recourse if this guy refuses to sign any of the work he did, or the annual?

And is a typed name enough with an IA #, or does there have to be some version of a signature? Now that I look at these great responses, I am sorry I didn't start a new thread.
Click to expand...

Requires a signature. 43.9 and 43.11 both require the mechanic to make a record entry with his signature and certificate number. Years ago, a fellow mechanic/IA wouldn’t sing off on work he had done because the owner wouldn’t pay him. The guy lost his certificates for violation of 43.9. Not only didn’t he get paid, but he was out of work for 3 years until he could get his IA back. Not getting paid is a civil matter to be taken up with the local courts. Signing for work done on an airplane is an FAA matter.

Only recourse is to turn him into the feds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
As long as the mechanic doesn't approve it for service in accordance with 43.9, I wouldn't think there's one damned thing they can do.
John
 
I was gonna point out
[h=2]§91.409 Inspections.[/h][FONT=&quot](a) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft unless, within the preceding 12 calendar months, it has had—[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) An annual inspection in accordance with part 43 of this chapter and has been approved for return to service by a person authorized by §43.7 of this chapter; or

If it hasn't been inspected in years it needs a signature before it is legal to fly. FAA ferry permit or IA sign off it has to have a signature.[/FONT]
 
I believe a mechanic is obligated by law to sign if he has done "work." An inspection is not "work" in that sense, so I suppose a mechanic can get through an inspection and simply say NO.

I am not sure of that.

Instructors are under the same obligation. I made a student insist on a signature in one of those neat group ground instruction events. The ground school said NO, so I sent the student back with the FAR in hand. He got his signature.
 
I am wrong. The mechanic is required to enter work done, but a signature is only required if the aircraft is released to service:

43.9
(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.
 
43.11 seems to require a signature one way or the other. Not sure of that; I shall re-read the whole thing.

(a) Maintenance record entries. The person approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part after any inspection performed in accordance with part 91, 125, §135.411(a)(1), or §135.419 shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:
(1) The type of inspection and a brief description of the extent of the inspection.
(2) The date of the inspection and aircraft total time in service.
(3) The signature, the certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving or disapproving for return to service the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, component part, or portions thereof.

Emphasis is mine. "Shall" means the same thing as "must."
 
Eddie Foy said:
I'm going to marry my cousin and move in with her. Her name is Paula Jones.
Click to expand...

Welcome to 'The Natural State' ! The house trailer, inbreeding and dogs under the house are nice but optional. Don't get caught in a situation requiring you to
'call the hogs' and not be up to speed, though. (Trust me.)
 
skywagon8a said:
Well it really was Mike. A verbal from the IA to the owner that it needs a test flight first before signing, is the same as not signing anything, as not even doing the inspection. If the owner crashes on his test flight without any signatures from the IA, then the IA is off the hook and the owner is in violation for flying an aircraft which has an expired annual inspection. The IA is required to sign for his inspection with a list of the unairworthy items. He also is supposed to supply the owner with a letter listing the unairworthy items. In this case a test flight to determine (whatever he felt needed determining). Then the "test" pilot signs the log saying that he flew it and found it satisfactory. After that the annual is complete. In this example it is the "test pilot's" signature that declares the airplane airworthy and the annual complete. No a verbal without a signature does not an airworthy airplane make.
An annual sign off does not have to say that the airplane is airworthy.
Click to expand...

My point was, at the very least I'd want the IA to sign something to the effect that the plane is "safe" to test fly. No way I'd get in an airplane that a mechanic is afraid to put his signature in the logbooks......

MTV
 
Me neither. But if a guy holds himself out to be an IA, and the owner lets him do almost all the things he wanted (he did not do a prop overhaul, but he wanted to because of the "age" of the fixed pitch prop), then at the end he should be prepared to sign something.

I did not follow all the scraps and invoices, but apparently he did 4500 bucks worth of work, not counting the new weigh-in, which he sub-contracted.

I was a bystander - but I was uneasy about the process. I have been neighbors with the dad for 40 years, and was willing to fly the bird. They put in all new fuel, a new gascolator, did a 45 minute ground run, changed the brake fluid, borescoped . . . If it all goes south, I will look at the scraps of paper to see exactly what was done. If he signs the annual with a "list" requiring the test flight, I will test it.
 
bob turner said:
.... But if a guy holds himself out to be an IA, and the owner lets him do almost all the things he wanted (he did not do a prop overhaul, but he wanted to because of the "age" of the fixed pitch prop), then at the end he should be prepared to sign something.
Click to expand...
There is a clue about this IA.
 
bob turner said:
I am wrong. The mechanic is required to enter work done, but a signature is only required if the aircraft is released to service:

43.9
(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.
Click to expand...

To who's satisfaction? I'm not satisfied, so I'm not signing.... I seriously haven't ever seen anything that says I have to sign if I'm not signing off .
John
 
Hardtail:
you are correct. If the work you do is not satisfactory you cannot sign. But you are obligated to describe the work you did in the aircraft records. "Shall" is a legal term of art. Shall means you have zero wiggle room. You have to do it.

[h=2]FAR 43.9 - Content, Form, and Disposition of Maintenance Records[/h](a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:
(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.
(2) The date of completion of the work performed.
(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this
 
I understand that, but don't think I'd be done until payment arrangements are made. I guess the FAA has a paddle for everyone's ass.... and they wonder why we don't always smile.
John
 
Hardtailjohn said:
I understand that, but don't think I'd be done until payment arrangements are made. I guess the FAA has a paddle for everyone's ass.... and they wonder why we don't always smile.
John
Click to expand...

same thing when I REQUEST a ferry permit to take with me.... that doesn't mean I will be happy and get it patched up enough to fly.... it's just a request... so far I've been able to been able to make it good enough, and then I sign the back of the ferry permit, to be used as a log book entry....

someone doesn't pay me, will NOT be getting anything signed off then and I will be out of stock of whatever they need in the future..... so far that has never come up with airplanes..

only had two bad checks written/refused to pay to my business(es) and that was back when i was in high school, first time, last name craposhits from california(seriously) fisherman out of Naknek(they also had a chicken stand for a year or 2 above naknek trading).... other was dave shetler? from soldotna, when i also was in naknek...
 
You are lucky. Down here mechanics get stiffed all the time - usually by wealthy aircraft owners. One of those is now down to his last repair station - the rest won't deal with him.
 
Mechanic's lien as a last resort, makes it hard to sell the plane, but seems like a strong persuader against thievery.
 
Update - at least on the thread drift. Remember, the mechanic billed 12 hours for paperwork. Now he has decided to actually do the paperwork, and needs the tach time, the battery serial number, and a couple other things. Says he may be able to finish by Monday.

Fascinating!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Y
GoPro 2 External Camera Mount - Minor Alteration?
2 3
Replies
61
Views
30K
YoungGun
Y
1
337/STC
Replies
1
Views
1K
Steve Pierce
Steve Pierce
C
GPS now a minor alteration
Replies
2
Views
2K
AmphibXP
A
cubpilot2
Recent Feild Approval Experience in Alaska with an 18A
Replies
2
Views
1K
SuperCub MD
SuperCub MD
Alex Clark
Not a Cub FATAL accident, but a lesson in cross-winds.
Replies
4
Views
3K
OVEREASYGUY
OVEREASYGUY
Back
Top