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Fairbanks FAA Seminar Concerning Destroyed Aircraft

FYI, here is EAA's response to several members (maybe some of y'all) who contacted EAA HQ directly on this subject....


"EAA spoke to the author of the Order, who will be giving the Alaska presentation, today. Here is our understanding based on that conversation:

True "data plate restorations" (i.e. new aircraft literally built around the data plate alone) do, and have always, violate FAR 45.13, which says that you can't put a data plate on any aircraft other than the one it came off of. Further, FAR 47.41 says that the registration is terminated when the aircraft is “completely destroyed.” This order lays out, in a practical sense, a generous definition of “completely destroyed.” Essentially, if any part of the primary structure (fuselage, wings, tail, etc…) is left salvageable, the aircraft can be rebuilt/restored. If there is disagreement over whether an aircraft is repairable or not, there is a resolution process using the FAA’s engineering offices. This would also apply to an experimental aircraft sold as scrap. If the buyer can show that the aircraft is intact and repairable, it can be returned to service through the proper documentation. The intent of this order is to prevent restorations only when there is truly nothing left of the aircraft other than the data plate.

It is unfortunate that this Order potentially adds paperwork to the restoration/repair process, but it ultimately only makes impossible a small number of restorations that were technically not meeting the letter of FAR 47.41 in the first place. EAA did ask about a “glacier girl” style restoration of a decaying airframe, and the author said that these sorts of projects can be approved under this policy. It is also unfortunate that the Order was not put out for public comment in advance of publication (orders seldom are), as at minimum it would have allowed us to address some of these questions prior to publication. A companion AC will be put out for comment in the next few months.

Please contact Tom Charpentier at tcharpe@eaa.org if you have feedback or questions. EAA will be closely watching the implementation of this policy, and ensuring that restoration of vintage aircraft will continue unfettered."
 
The way I see it, I have a Super Cub project that needs new fuselage and wings... 35+ years ago, this wasn't really worth rebuilding, so the registration and all was let expire. I've gone through all the steps and it now has current registration....but it's history says it was scrapped or lapsed in the past. Now it's well worth rebuilding, but it's going to have to go through an inspector, who chances are, has never seen a PA18 naked, and it's his/her choice to make a decision whether I get to rebuild MY airplane? At the least, this is going to cause me to build an inferior aircraft because it sounds like a huge PIA to replace both at the same time, like I had planned. We're allowed to replace ANY part with a PMA'd or STC'd part, but just not all at one time. What a crock!
John
 
The way I see it, I have a Super Cub project that needs new fuselage and wings... 35+ years ago, this wasn't really worth rebuilding, so the registration and all was let expire. I've gone through all the steps and it now has current registration....but it's history says it was scrapped or lapsed in the past. Now it's well worth rebuilding, but it's going to have to go through an inspector, who chances are, has never seen a PA18 naked, and it's his/her choice to make a decision whether I get to rebuild MY airplane? At the least, this is going to cause me to build an inferior aircraft because it sounds like a huge PIA to replace both at the same time, like I had planned. We're allowed to replace ANY part with a PMA'd or STC'd part, but just not all at one time. What a crock!
John
As long as one structure is repairable you are good according to this document. I know you can repair something can't you. Throw a good stabilizer on the pile or something. ;)
 
The way I see it, I have a Super Cub project that needs new fuselage and wings... 35+ years ago, this wasn't really worth rebuilding, so the registration and all was let expire. I've gone through all the steps and it now has current registration....but it's history says it was scrapped or lapsed in the past. Now it's well worth rebuilding, but it's going to have to go through an inspector, who chances are, has never seen a PA18 naked, and it's his/her choice to make a decision whether I get to rebuild MY airplane? At the least, this is going to cause me to build an inferior aircraft because it sounds like a huge PIA to replace both at the same time, like I had planned. We're allowed to replace ANY part with a PMA'd or STC'd part, but just not all at one time. What a crock!
John

Moral of the story-dont let em expire
 
The way I see it, I have a Super Cub project that needs new fuselage and wings... 35+ years ago, this wasn't really worth rebuilding, so the registration and all was let expire. I've gone through all the steps and it now has current registration....but it's history says it was scrapped or lapsed in the past. Now it's well worth rebuilding, but it's going to have to go through an inspector, who chances are, has never seen a PA18 naked, and it's his/her choice to make a decision whether I get to rebuild MY airplane? At the least, this is going to cause me to build an inferior aircraft because it sounds like a huge PIA to replace both at the same time, like I had planned. We're allowed to replace ANY part with a PMA'd or STC'd part, but just not all at one time. What a crock!
John

If you have a registration, and an Airworthiness certificate, all you need is an A&P/IA to do the 337s and annual. If you don’t have the airworthiness certificate, a couple questions - did it have a permanent certificate (post July 17, 1956)? Do the FAA records indicate if it was surrendered or revoked? If not, once the airplane is finished, and has an annual simply request a replacement. If it expired, was suspended or revoked, you will need to make application for a new airworthiness certificate. Again, it will need an annual prior to this (within the preceding 30 days). Many FAA offices don’t issue certificates anymore. Most certificates are issued by DARs now, so find a DAR that knows old airplanes and work with him. There is a DAR directory on the FAA web site.


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Read his bio....thinking...he may be the sort who thinks anyone without a four year degree is an idiot...or may have experience with crapsman...and puts everyone without a BA or BS degree into that category..
I’m one of these people who doesn’t want anyone protecting me from myself...more and more now ah days though....there is an unbelievable number of idiots out there who need that....


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please protect me from myself.:)https://www.facebook.com/SportsIllu...U2MTo3MjA2MzE2OTUwMDI1Mzc/?id=100011671403561
 
Remember all the fuss awhile back about IAs and being actively involved? Does anyone know anybody who lost his or her IA to a FAA action? I don't know of anybody who even stopped renewing. My neighbor who borrows tools 'cause he don't own any and never has and never did have anything to put on his activity sheet still gets his IA renewed on 8 hours of schooling. Actively involved for a total of 8 hours sitting through an IA renewal seminar. I expect this wrecked airplane deal wiil be greatly similar. I recall sitting through a seminar a few years ago where it was emphasized that it was not illegal for the crooks to sell dataplates and paperwork but it was illegal for someone to purchase them. Now that's just goofy.
 
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Remember all the fuss awhile back about IAs and being actively involved? Does anyone know anybody who lost his or her IA to a FAA action? I don't know of anybody who even stopped renewing. My neighbor who borrows tools 'cause he don't own any and never has and never did have anything to put on his activity sheet still gets his IA renewed on 8 hours of schooling. Actively involved for a total of 8 hours sitting through an IA renewal seminar. I expect this wrecked airplane deal wiil be greatly similar. I recall sitting through a seminar a few years ago where it was emphasized that it was not illegal for the crooks to sell dataplates and paperwork but it was illegal for someone to purchase them. Now that's just goofy.

There were several IAs in the BAL FSDO that didn’t get renewed over the “actively engaged” stuff.


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If it expired, was suspended or revoked, you will need to make application for a new airworthiness certificate. Again, it will need an annual prior to this (within the preceding 30 days).

Proof that you don't have to have an airworthiness certificate to sign off an aircraft as airworthy-------but I digress, back to the cabin !!
 
If you have a registration, and an Airworthiness certificate, all you need is an A&P/IA to do the 337s and annual. If you don’t have the airworthiness certificate, a couple questions - did it have a permanent certificate (post July 17, 1956)? Do the FAA records indicate if it was surrendered or revoked? If not, once the airplane is finished, and has an annual simply request a replacement. If it expired, was suspended or revoked, you will need to make application for a new airworthiness certificate. Again, it will need an annual prior to this (within the preceding 30 days). Many FAA offices don’t issue certificates anymore. Most certificates are issued by DARs now, so find a DAR that knows old airplanes and work with him. There is a DAR directory on the FAA web site.


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Thanks DGA...I'll have to look at the paperwork...don't remember but I'm sure it had a permanent. Don't remember if Stock just lost it or what. We do have a good DAR here, and he's actually a good Super Cub guy, so that'll help. I probably might as well get with him on it sooner than later.
Thanks
John
 
Proof that you don't have to have an airworthiness certificate to sign off an aircraft as airworthy-------but I digress, back to the cabin !!

Actually I recommend they be signed as unairworthy with the sole discrepancy being the lack of an airworthiness certificate. Once a DAR issues that certificate and makes the log book entry you are then good to go!


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Be aware that some time there going to jump on the insurance band wagon like your car and truck, if it's considered a "total" and they pay in full, you get a "rebuilt" title and at that piont it's "destroyed in there eyes. Lots of questions will follow from this point of view. I also wecome our input.
I once had a motorhome rear ended, they totaled it and paid me, but I bought it back at a lower price as part of the settlement, months later got a notice of rebuilt title being sent to AK DMV, I sued and won. It was not part of the buy back agreement. I used there own paperwork against them....Scott
 
"the FAAST (FAA Safety Team) is hosting a seminar at UAF in Fairbanks on Friday, January 25th"

Fairbanks Ak. in January is normally cold. But this year may not be so come on up and attend the seminar.



 

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Proof that you don't have to have an airworthiness certificate to sign off an aircraft as airworthy-------but I digress, back to the cabin !!

AND.... Along that line. One can give a Flight Review to a pilot who is without a current medical. :)
 
"the FAAST (FAA Safety Team) is hosting a seminar at UAF in Fairbanks on Friday, January 25th"

Fairbanks Ak. in January is normally cold. But this year may not be so come on up and attend the seminar.




I participated in that seminar several years ago and they broke some records that weekend with temps dropping into the 40s below. I didn't know why people kept walking out and back in all day. Found out they were starting their vehicles so the oil wouldn't congel. Never thought zero and sunshine would feel so good until I got to Anchorage.
 
I participated in that seminar several years ago and they broke some records that weekend with temps dropping into the 40s below. I didn't know why people kept walking out and back in all day. Found out they were starting their vehicles so the oil wouldn't congel. Never thought zero and sunshine would feel so good until I got to Anchorage.

Hey Steve there's these modern gadgets called Auto Starts (http://autotrimdesignalaska.com/autostarts/) that allow the owner to start the vehicle from a warm comfort zone. They also can incorporate a temp sensor that fires up the engine when preset low cab temps are reached. Auto trans only I assume. So no fears there's better ways now to keep the ride warm.

Gary
 
Hey Steve there's these modern gadgets called Auto Starts (http://autotrimdesignalaska.com/autostarts/) that allow the owner to start the vehicle from a warm comfort zone. They also can incorporate a temp sensor that fires up the engine when preset low cab temps are reached. Auto trans only I assume. So no fears there's better ways now to keep the ride warm.

Gary

They work fine with a manual, just have to leave it out of gear. And have a switch for the clutch safety.
 
until you forget once.....

Good point, haha

I had a webasto diesel-fired coolant heater on my truck. I’d just leave that thing on all day when it was rough out. Burned almost nothing for fuel and took almost no amps to operate. And zero hours on the engine.

I’ll definitely install another one of those over an auto start when I get back up there.
 
They work fine with a manual, just have to leave it out of gear. And have a switch for the clutch safety.

until you forget once.....
You guys reminded me of a story that I was told. One of the mechanics at work (Northeast Airlines) always used to toot his horn prior to starting his car when he got in to go home. Every day! The other mechanics decided to teach him a lesson so they wired his horn button to the starter. That broke that habit. :lol:
 
That was only about 3 years ago, maybe those folks hadn't embraced the technology. I am always amazed at the simple thinks I never thought about that is daya to day in Alaska. I guess there are things I do here in the summer that y'all wouldn't be familiar with.
 
My remote starter automatically turns on my defroster and seat heat, regardless of how they’re set. I use it multiple times every day. I wish my TX truck did the same with AC!
 
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