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Thread: 850s and wheel/tire upgrade

  1. #1
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
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    850s and wheel/tire upgrade

    I am running 800x6 on the a185f. I want to go to 850s.

    I also have McCaulley wheels/brakes. I have been told I should swap those out for Clevelands- or better yet the Alaska Bushwheels wheels/brakes.

    Is the goodyear 850 the only game in town?

    Should i swap wheels/brakes? If so- any good reason to go to 10 inch wheels or stick with 6?

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    Bill.Brine's Avatar
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    850s and wheel/tire upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    I am running 800x6 on the a185f. I want to go to 850s.

    I also have McCaulley wheels/brakes. I have been told I should swap those out for Clevelands- or better yet the Alaska Bushwheels wheels/brakes.

    Is the goodyear 850 the only game in town?

    Should i swap wheels/brakes? If so- any good reason to go to 10 inch wheels or stick with 6?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I replaced the McCauley wheels and brakes on my late model 180 500 hours ago with Clevelands.

    New wheels and brakes along with BAS harness are the best two upgrades you can do to an old wagon.

    My choice for 8:50 tires is Michelin. The Michelins wear well and have wide groves that throw fewer rocks.
    Had Goodyears and Desser Smoothies in the past.. both ok.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  3. #3
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
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    850s and wheel/tire upgrade

    Dumb question probably but why are new wheels and brakes beneficial if they havent given me any grief?

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    McCauley made two different wheels, 3 piece and 2 piece. The 3 piece had corrosion problems and most got replaced but Mac wheels bad reputation carried to all their wheels. If your mechanic has inspected them? Dont fear them with 850s. Assuming you can find an approval that allows them. I never paid attention to that since Ive had Clevelands from day 1.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    Dumb question probably but why are new wheels and brakes beneficial if they haven't given me any grief?
    There's nothing wrong with your old wheels and brakes as long as they are properly maintained. Since you got them in Arizona, it is doubtful that there is any possibility of corrosion.
    NX1PA
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    What about the Grove 10" wheels and brakes that are STC'd through Seaplanes North? Does anyone have any experience on how these compare to the Airframes wheel sets? From what I can see the 10" Grove wheelset would allow for a 8.50x10 and a 29x11x10 Desser smooth tubeless tire. Does the Airframe's 10" wheelset offer the same flexibility?

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    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    There's nothing wrong with your old wheels and brakes as long as they are properly maintained. Since you got them in Arizona, it is doubtful that there is any possibility of corrosion.
    Good memory on the AZ, Gary!

    I am fine with upgrading the wheels/brakes to ABI if it makes sense but I dont want to throw money down the drain if it doesnt really matter.

    This letter lets me put 8.5 x 6 on my current wheels/brakes then?



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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cbass View Post
    What about the Grove 10" wheels and brakes that are STC'd through Seaplanes North? Does anyone have any experience on how these compare to the Airframes wheel sets? From what I can see the 10" Grove wheelset would allow for a 8.50x10 and a 29x11x10 Desser smooth tubeless tire. Does the Airframe's 10" wheelset offer the same flexibility?
    I have ABI ten inch wheels on my airplane, with 8.50 x 10 tires. That makes a nice combination if you do a fair amount of back country flight, but can't avoid pavement.

    The ONLY reason I went that direction, however, is the only approval for 8.50 x 6.00 tires on a Cessna 175 is to buy the Airglas nose fork. Since my airplane has been converted to tailwheel.....

    If I were running a 185, it'd be on 8.50 x 6.00 tires, either Goodyear or Michilin. There is a letter on Atlee Dodge's web site from the FAA stating that the FAA has no objection to using 8.50 x 6.00 tires on the 185. Print a copy of that, and take it to your mechanic.

    As others have said, take a very good look at your McCauley wheels when you disassemble them to change tires. If you don't see any corrosion....stick with them. If there are issues, I'd buy ABI's 6 inch wheels and brakes.

    To me, the 8.50 tire is about the perfect general purpose tire, IF they can be approved on your plane.

    MTV
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  9. #9
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    McCauley made two different wheels, 3 piece and 2 piece. The 3 piece had corrosion problems and most got replaced but Mac wheels bad reputation carried to all their wheels. If your mechanic has inspected them? Dont fear them with 850s. Assuming you can find an approval that allows them. I never paid attention to that since Ive had Clevelands from day 1.
    Wheels say type III. Whats that mean?

  10. #10
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
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    It also looks like those bad wheels were only on the 1973 and 1974 model years?

    McCauley Industrial CorporationSERVICE BULLETIN
    WB-1
    May 15, 1974
    TO: Cessna Aircraft Company
    SUBJECT: Modification to D-30063-1, D-30063-2 and D-30063-4 McCauley Wheel Assemblies
    AIRCRAFT MODELS AFFECTED:
    1973 Model Cessna 180 and 185
    1974 Model Cessna 180, 185, 206 and 210
    CONDITION:
    The main wheels of affected aircraft have had reported instances of broken bolts. Since 'these bolts hold the wheel assembly together, their failure could conceivably result in a complete wheel failure. McCauley has made a design improvement to the wheel to prevent this condition. Wheels presently in the field can be modified to incorporate this change. This field modification basically changes the wheel assembly from part number D-30063-⊠ to D-30291-⊠: by replacing the (6) 1/4" dia. thru-bolts with (12) 5/16" dia. socket head cap screws used to attach the wheel flanges to the hub. The new D-30291-1, D-30291-2 and D-30291-3 wheels are TSO approved and will also be installed on new production aircraft.
    CORRECTION:
    A parts kit (part number PL-30403) is available for the modification of affected wheels. Each kit contains parts to modify one aircraft (2 wheels) and contains the following:


    PL-30403

    Qty. McCauley P/N

    Description 2 ea. D-30256 Hub Assy.

    24 ea. A-1635-79 Socket Head Cap Screw

    24 ea. A-1638-1 Washer

    4 ea. B-30076 Fiber Spacer

    2 ea. A-30401 Decal (D-30291-1)

    2 ea. A-30402 Decal (D-30291-2)

    2 ea. A-30413 Decal (D-30291-3)

    1 ea. WB-1 Service bulletin


    Procedure:
    Important
    Use appropriate Cessna service manuals for reference.
    1. Remove wheel from aircraft.
    2. Deflate tire and disassemble wheel.
    3. Remove retaining rings, grease seals, and bearings from wheel, as they must be used in the replacement hub (bearing cups need not be removed).
    NOTE
    Grease retainer on inboard side of wheel differs from the outboard retainer. For identification purposes, the outboard retainer has a smaller inside diameter (I.D.).
    4. Using a drill press and size P" drill bit (.323" dia.), drill out the original (6) bolt holes (.323 .005) in the two flanges and brake disc so that they can accommodate the larger 5/16" dia. cap screw. Remove burrs and sharp edges from holes (.015" X 45 max. chamfer).
    5. Obliterate original ink stamped part numbers on wheel flanges and brake discs with indelible ink.
    6. Remove original McCauley decal from wheel flange and install appropriate new decal. Discard unused decals.


    Original Decal Replacement Decal D-30063-1 D-30291-3

    D-30063-4 D-30291-1

    D-30063-2 D-30291-2


    7. Inspect and re-lubricate wheel bearings as necessary and install in new hub.
    8. Assemble wheel and tire. Socket head cap screws must be installed with washers. Torque cap screws 200 to 190 pound-inches prior to inflating tire.
    9. Install wheel on aircraft.
    IDENTIFICATION:
    Modified or Replacement

    Aircraft Original Wheel Assy.

    Wheel Assy.1973 180, 185 D-30063-1 D-30291-3

    1974 180, 185, opt. 206 D-30063-4 D-30291-1

    1974 206, 210 D-30063-2 D-30291-2


    COMPLIANCE:
    1974 model Aircraft* Regardless of the number of hours of service, all affected wheels shall be modified within the next 25 hours of, service after the effective date of this bulletin.
    1973 Model Aircraft* Affected wheels shall be modified during any complete disassembly of the wheel (e.g. tire change) or next annual inspection whichever occurs first.
    *Reported bolt failures have occurred only on 1974 model aircraft, however, since the same style wheel is used on 1973 aircraft, it is necessary to include the earlier models. There is no clear indication that a failure could occur on '73 models, therefore, the required time for compliance is not as stringent.
    McCauley Industrial CorporationService Bulletin WB-1-A
    JUNE 10, 1974
    NECESSARY AND REQUIRED ACTION
    (This Bulletin Replaces Service Bulletin WB-1 Dated 15 May 1974)
    SUBJECT:
    Modification of existing D-30063-1, D-30063-2 and D-30063-4 Wheel Assemblies on specific aircraft models which requires the use of new parts and a minor modification to some component parts.
    AFFECTED McCAULEY WHEEL ASSEMBLIES:
    D-30063-1 (Cessna P/N C163002-0102)

    with S/N's 720000 through 739999



    D-30063-2 (Cessna P/N C163002-0103)

    with S/N's 720000 through 739999



    D-30063-4 (Cessna P/N C163002-0104)

    with S/N's 720000 through 739999

  11. #11
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    That only applied to those two years. Cessna supplied new center portions of the hubs. This is not applicable to your plane since you have a later year.
    NX1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    Good memory on the AZ, Gary!

    I am fine with upgrading the wheels/brakes to ABI if it makes sense but I dont want to throw money down the drain if it doesnt really matter.

    This letter lets me put 8.5 x 6 on my current wheels/brakes then?


    Are you planning to use 4-ply? I don’t know anyone with a Skywagon who does. It’s one of those items the internet paperwork sticklers sometimes disregard. The letter is specific.
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    I have seen lots of corrosion and cracked rims -- even on Cleveland's. For any oversize tires I recommend the ABI 6 bolt rims it is what I use exclusively on any heavier AC with oversized tires.

    Seen cracked rims and broken bolts -- on one 185 I walked into the maintenance shop and the light just hit the rim right where it had started to split -- just seen it by sheer luck.

    The Aircraft that was just pushed in for a Annual so it would have been caught anyway but talk about luck that thing would have had a blow out soon.

    We had stretched bolts not holding torque on the 3 bolt Clevelands as well when running 26" wheels on 180s and 206s.

    That said I never used the 10"wheels Grove ore otherwise on any 180 185 or 206 that may be a good option if you go larger than 850s on these heavier AC.

  14. #14
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I once asked ABI whether they’d recommend three bolt vs six bolt wheels (they make both). The response was essentially if you regularly check wheel bolt torques, the three bolts are fine. Otherwise, six bolt. I doubt most folks check wheel bolt torques often.

    MTV

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    The issue with three bolt wheels was brake rotor flanges tearing back in the early ‘90s. Cleveland increased the flange thickness and the problem was resolved. It was most apparent on wheels that had GarAero 10” adaptors glued on for running big tires but there were probably other failures with stock wheels. One fix was kidney shaped washers under the bolt heads, and both of my sets of 3-bolt 6” Clevelands have them, a holdover from ‘90s practices. FSDO started requiring the 6-bolt wheels for the GarAero field approval, which was pretty common back then. These days guys cling to the heavier duty has to be better idea so many guys go to 6-bolt. FWIW, ABW’s 10” wheels use 3-bolt brake rotors. That’s true for the 10” x 6-1/2” Cub wheels and the 10” x 10” wheels used for AirHawks on Cessnas. I haven’t seen either of those failing.

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    The Grove 10 in wheel has not been available for the past 3 years!!! I keep calling and they say they have a waiting list but no plans on when they will make more. I fell for the old STC will be out in July about 5 years ago. I have had a full set up with 31 inch tires waiting in the hanger. Grove seems to have not interest in supporting the 10 inch wheel so I would advise against it. If your wheels are in good shape stick with what you have for wheels and brakes and whatever tire floats your boats.
    DENNY

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    This webpage on the Seaplanes North website seems to indicate the STC is available: https://www.seaplanesnorth.com/tundra-tires/
    This Grove website also indicates the STC is available: https://www.groveaircraft.com/10inch.html
    I recently saw a 180 with new Grove wheels and brakes. Any chance Grove recently increased production?

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    A neighbor has Dessers on a 180. Wheels? I can’t tell ABW 10” wheels from Groves from a distance. Up close would be easy. I’d use ABWs myself. Leave the 6” rotors and associated torque plates alone so tire swaps are easy. I can switch my 6” for 10” wheels in a few minutes on either plane. Brakes have more than enough authority.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cbass View Post
    This webpage on the Seaplanes North website seems to indicate the STC is available: https://www.seaplanesnorth.com/tundra-tires/
    This Grove website also indicates the STC is available: https://www.groveaircraft.com/10inch.html
    I recently saw a 180 with new Grove wheels and brakes. Any chance Grove recently increased production?
    Just called Seaplanes North again. Not approved for the 31 in Desser Tire yet. I called Grove this morning and got the same reply as I have for the last few years. Waiting list but no plans to make more wheels yet!!! I was thinking of putting them on the new project but don't want a setup with no support!! I found that I can lock up a 35 inch bushwheel with 1 1/4 brakes just fine so the advantage of the bigger rotor is not really a factor on a cub. There are some good threads on tire size pick the one that fits the mission and stick it on a 6 inch wheel or a 10 inch Bushwheel rim and go fly.
    DENNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Just called Seaplanes North again. Not approved for the 31 in Desser Tire yet. I called Grove this morning and got the same reply as I have for the last few years. Waiting list but no plans to make more wheels yet!!! I was thinking of putting them on the new project but don't want a setup with no support!! I found that I can lock up a 35 inch bushwheel with 1 1/4 brakes just fine so the advantage of the bigger rotor is not really a factor on a cub. There are some good threads on tire size pick the one that fits the mission and stick it on a 6 inch wheel or a 10 inch Bushwheel rim and go fly.
    DENNY
    Got it, thanks! So the 8.50x10 and the 29x10 are approved not the 31 and you couldnt get a set of wheels/brakes even if you wanted to.
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  21. #21
    mvivion's Avatar
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    The 8.50 x 10 and 29 x 11 x 10 tires are approved under the ABW 10 x 10 wheel STC.

    MTV
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