Removing Lettering

[Cardiff Kook]

My beautiful plane has some unsightly large n number put on by previous owner. Looks like some type of sticker.

I have little numbers on the tail.

How does one remove these things?

[frequent_flyer]

My beautiful plane has some unsightly large n number put on by previous owner. Looks like some type of sticker.

I have little numbers on the tail.

How does one remove these things?

Before you remove them you should check if the small ones are large enough to be legal. I doubt that many people would use letters larger than the legal minimum size.

[akavidflyer]

if its vinyl, careful use of a heat gun helps to peel it off. You can also look up vinyl removal and most graphics places that do wraps have some kits for pulling old stickers off and cleaning the surfaces of any remaining residue.

[gahi]

assuming its vinyl. park it facing the sun. Careful with a heat gun, they can be too much and wreck the paint. NO RAZORS either. Heat (hot sun/hair dryer?), and picking at it will get it with the least damage. Mineral spirits will help with adhesive clean up. Ex sign guy here.

[frequent_flyer]

Couple of simple questions -

How high are the letters that are being considered for removal?
What is the minimum legal height for letters on this airplane?

I'll bet the answer to both questions is 12 inches.

[DENNY]

§ 45.22Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.(a) When display of aircraft nationality and registration marks in accordance with §§ 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 would be inconsistent with exhibition of that aircraft, a U.S.-registered aircraft may be operated without displaying those marks anywhere on the aircraft if1) It is operated for the purpose of exhibition, including a motion picture or television production, or an airshow;(2) Except for practice and test fights necessary for exhibition purposes, it is operated only at the location of the exhibition, between the exhibition locations, and between those locations and the base of operations of the aircraft; and(3) For each flight in the United Statesi) It is operated with the prior approval of the Flight Standards District Office, in the case of a flight within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for the takeoff airport, or within 4.4 nautical miles of that airport if it is within Class G airspace; or(ii) It is operated under a flight plan filed under either § 91.153 or § 91.169 of this chapter describing the marks it displays, in the case of any other flight.(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under § 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with §§ 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if1) It displays in accordance with § 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter “N” followed byi) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft (“C”, standard; “R”, restricted; “L”, limited; or “X”, experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter “N” anywhere on the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph (b)(1) of this section.(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of this section—(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless it temporarily bears marks in accordance with §§ 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33;(2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that operation; or(3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 133, 135, or 137 of this chapter.

Some how my cut and past got frown faces added it was not me.
I will take that bet. I like 20 Y/O Port.
DENNY

[frequent_flyer]

I will take that bet. I like 20 Y/O Port.

What is the certification category of the aircraft in question? That should end the discussion and the bet.

[EdH]

What is the certification category of the aircraft in question? That should end the discussion and the bet.

Doesn’t matter. It’s a “small US registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago,” and it’s not operating internationally or in an ADIZ. Unless he’s a 135 operator (obviously not), seems pretty cut and dry. Unlike Port, which is not dry.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

[frequent_flyer]

I had missed the "built over 30 years ago". I learned something from the discussion and hope I didn't confuse the OP.

[stewartb]

The key to removing vinyl is to pull at a very acute angle. Lift a corner and pull it 180° and very close to the surface. Adjust the pull as the shapes require.

[frequent_flyer]

I wondered why so many aircraft built over 30 years display 12 inch numbers. Is the answer in AC-45 which includes this exception:

[Dan Gervae]

Hopefully the paint underneath matches…if the paint has faded some the removal of the stickers may end up more unsightly that the way it is…just be prepared for either some paint work, or a rubbing compound effort to try and match it. Heat gun is probably the only option… be careful, and good luck.

[Cardiff Kook]

Plane is a 1979. Previous owner added large n numbers for flights to Baja, Mexico.

[RaisedByWolves]

I wondered why so many aircraft built over 30 years display 12 inch numbers. Is the answer in AC-45 which includes this exception:

Unless it has the same external config as a 30 year old airplane..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[frequent_flyer]

Unless it has the same external config as a 30 year old airplane..

That clause does not seem to apply to aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate.

[akavidflyer]

That clause does not seem to apply to aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate.

There is a plethora of planes that only have the 2" numbers, mine included that pass annuals year after year, are seen at show after show etc. You have to either be an engineer or a lawyer in your previous life as both of them get hung up on details that don't matter and tend to miss the big picture and really screw up the job for the guys that actually do the work.
Is your life gonna change in a drastic way if someone has 2" numbers on an old plane?? then why look for any angle you can to make it "not right"

[skywagon8a]

That clause does not seem to apply to aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate.

Tell that to Cessna. Cardiff Kook's airplane was built in 1979. In 1979 Cessna painted the small numbers on all the new US registered 185s. Also the type certificate was issued on January 31, 1961 which is 64 years ago.

[Randyk]

Tell that to Cessna. Cardiff Kook's airplane was built in 1979. In 1979 Cessna painted the small numbers on all the new US registered 185s. Also the type certificate was issued on January 31, 1961 which is 64 years ago.

64?

[skywagon8a]

64?

OK 62 2023-1961=62 It's more than 30.

[EdH]

I wondered why so many aircraft built over 30 years display 12 inch numbers. Is the answer in AC-45 which includes this exception:

The problem with that is it’s an Advisory Circular. The second sentence in it says it’s not mandatory and not a regulation.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

[dgapilot]

45.22(b) allows any aircraft built at least 30 years ago to display 2” numbers or. An experimental exhibition or experimental amateur built aircraft with the same external configuration as an aircraft built 30 years ago (replica) to display 2” numbers. Same external configuration means exactly the same, not a scaled down or scaled up version.

I can’t say when the last 180 or 185 was built, but suspect they are all over 30 years old.

If you are an Experimental Exhibition or AB, and meet the “same external configuration” as an aircraft that was built 30 years ago and you display “NX” with your registration number it eliminates the 2” “EXPERIMENTAL” placard requirement by the entrance to the aircraft.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[flynlow]

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=...BAgHEA0&adurl=

This removed a decal on my RV8 like magic. I can not tell where the decal was removed The paint below the numbers may be shaded and not faded ie the paint under the number may not match due to protected .

[mvivion]

45.22(b) allows any aircraft built at least 30 years ago to display 2” numbers or. An experimental exhibition or experimental amateur built aircraft with the same external configuration as an aircraft built 30 years ago (replica) to display 2” numbers. Same external configuration means exactly the same, not a scaled down or scaled up version.

I can’t say when the last 180 or 185 was built, but suspect they are all over 30 years old.

If you are an Experimental Exhibition or AB, and meet the “same external configuration” as an aircraft that was built 30 years ago and you display “NX” with your registration number it eliminates the 2” “EXPERIMENTAL” placard requirement by the entrance to the aircraft.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Last model year for the 180 was 1980, last year for the 185 was 1985.

And note the requirement for large numbers when crossing an ADIZ.

MTV

[behindpropellers]

Might want to talk to your IA on this.

How is the fuel leak repair going?

[Cardiff Kook]

Fuel leak appears fixed- at least 20 hrs after repair

[Cardiff Kook]

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=...BAgHEA0&adurl=

This removed a decal on my RV8 like magic. I can not tell where the decal was removed The paint below the numbers may be shaded and not faded ie the paint under the number may not match due to protected .

Thanks. Going to give it a shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hotrod180]

Lots of posting re whether or not to buy a second plane, and what to buy--
but not much about the plane after you bought it.
How bout a couple pics & a description?

[Ken Robbins]

I remove a fair amount of adhesive N Numbers on Cirrus and there is adhesive left behind after the characters are peeled. Even if you can't see it, the ghost left behind is partly adhesive. We use 3M adhesive remover (Aircraft Spruce) to soften and clean the residue then buff with 3M product called Finesse. It's very fine and is easy to work by hand or buffer.
The heat discussion is spot on, if you can't lay the back of your hand on the letter, it's too hot. Plastic scrapers sharpened with a flat file and held at flat angle work well to get the letter started. The hardest part for me is patience.
Ken

[Cardiff Kook]

Lots of posting re whether or not to buy a second plane, and what to buy--
but not much about the plane after you bought it.
How bout a couple pics & a description?

I agree! I have it on my list to give an update.

[WhiskeyMike]

Perhaps they have changed this but I would swear that it used to say "type certified 30 years ago or identical in external appearance to one type certified 30 years ago." We always used 3 inch numbers but I haven't read the latest version of the FAR's. I guess this only matters in rural areas where people don't have access to ADSB info where it doesn't matter what size the numbers on your plane are because they're on somebody screen. Maybe somebody would like to take this thread and explain how do you get privacy for your ADSB out.

[dgapilot]

Perhaps they have changed this but I would swear that it used to say "type certified 30 years ago or identical in external appearance to one type certified 30 years ago." We always used 3 inch numbers but I haven't read the latest version of the FAR's. I guess this only matters in rural areas where people don't have access to ADSB info where it doesn't matter what size the numbers on your plane are because they're on somebody screen. Maybe somebody would like to take this thread and explain how do you get privacy for your ADSB out.

45.22(b) hasn’t changed since 1993.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stewartb]

Thanks to dga. I appreciate having a true resource to counter the conjecture.

[dgapilot]

Thanks to dga. I appreciate having a true resource to counter the conjecture.

As much as I hate the DRS, you can actually select amendment level easily to see the changes in the regulations!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hotrod180]

A buddy of mine used to own a C180 that had spent some time registered in Mexico,
re-registered in the US (with a different number) when it came back here.
We were looking at it in the sun one day,
and noticed a "ghost number" on the bottom of one wing.
It was the old tail number.
It had been many years since it was removed, yet the underlying white paint still wasn't as faded as the surrounding area.

[180_jeff]

Maybe somebody would like to take this thread and explain how do you get privacy for your ADSB out.

Hasn't that been discussed to death? You don't get privacy.

[dgapilot]

When the government is involved, there is no privacy. If you want privacy, don't install ADSB and live with the limitations on where you can fly.

[cubdrvr]

​amen !

[Cardiff Kook]

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=...BAgHEA0&adurl=

This removed a decal on my RV8 like magic. I can not tell where the decal was removed The paint below the numbers may be shaded and not faded ie the paint under the number may not match due to protected .

Did you put a heat gun to it first? Or just use it cold?

I ordered the remover.

[flynlow]

Did you put a heat gun to it first? Or just use it cold?

I ordered the remover.

I used it cold. Results may vary but this eraser really surprised me. A previous owner applied a decal along the side just below the canopy that i thought distracted from the RV's appearance.
The tool erased the decal and left shiny paint with no evidence whatso ever of the decal.
If the numbers are decals and not actually painted on i would suspect this should work well.
start on a small space as a trial.
best wishes

[flynlow]

I used it cold. Results may vary but this eraser really surprised me. A previous owner applied a decal along the side just below the canopy that i thought distracted from the RV's appearance.
The tool erased the decal and left shiny paint with no evidence whatso ever of the decal.
If the numbers are decals and not actually painted on i would suspect this should work well.
start on a small space as a trial.
best wishes

...additional thought, this works like a eraser, you want the paint cool and hard, not soft below the decal...i would not heat