New Carbon Cub with 916 Rotax
- Thread starter WWhunter
- Start date
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/carbon-cub-gets-a-rotax/
If the engine is significantly lighter than the titan 340 that will give the 1320 capped Light Sport a good boost in utility where every pound counts. Even a 20-30 lbs decrease in weight would be pretty significant. An 850 lb airplane with 160 HP on tap all the way up to 14,000 would have to be a lot of fun to fly.
I'm glad they're offereing an option with some new engine tech to include electronic fuel injection and of course the relatively common electronic ignition.
If the engine is significantly lighter than the titan 340 that will give the 1320 capped Light Sport a good boost in utility where every pound counts. Even a 20-30 lbs decrease in weight would be pretty significant. An 850 lb airplane with 160 HP on tap all the way up to 14,000 would have to be a lot of fun to fly.
I'm glad they're offereing an option with some new engine tech to include electronic fuel injection and of course the relatively common electronic ignition.
aeroaddict
MEMBER
Boise ID area
Wow!! While I'm not a rotax fan (that's funny skywagon8a) probably because of my age, it has been a very successful product.
And that's huge for CC's. That's smart marketing! I can't imagine what the new plane will cost with titanium and pre-peg parts.
And that's huge for CC's. That's smart marketing! I can't imagine what the new plane will cost with titanium and pre-peg parts.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
I heard no mention of Rotax in any of the videos covering the event or the build. Could it just be a marketing ploy based on both aircraft being Carbon Cub and SS family?
The videos say CubCrafters bought back an in-service SS and got it to Patey for mods. Are we now to believe the mods included fitting the new Rotax engine?
soyAnarchisto
MEMBER
Boulder, CO
I don't think this is true. Cubcrafters had to go purchase an already built and flying airplane to modify for the Dubai stunt. It was basically a run of the mill 180hp version.
The new rotax 916 turbo engine is a prototype - and CC won't ship the first plane until 2025 according to their press release. The one at SunNFun is a 1-off prototype.
The new rotax 916 turbo engine is a prototype - and CC won't ship the first plane until 2025 according to their press release. The one at SunNFun is a 1-off prototype.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Press Release
LAKELAND, FL – March 28, 2023 -- CubCrafters is introducing a new variant of its best-selling Carbon
Cub aircraft. In development for international markets, the new model is called the Carbon Cub UL.
The company has invested in several new technologies to make the Carbon Cub UL even lighter and
better performing than its predecessor, the Carbon Cub SS. The goal is a new airplane that features
multi-fuel technology (MOGAS & AVGAS), fully meets ASTM standards, and carries 2 adult people with a
full fuel load and a reasonable amount of baggage at a takeoff weight of 600 kg (1320 lbs) and under.
Key to the development of the new aircraft is CubCrafters’ collaboration with BRP-Rotax, which is
launching their new 160 HP turbocharged engine on the Carbon Cub UL. The new 916 iS engine is
lighter, more fuel efficient, and can produce more power than the normally aspirated CC340 engine on
the Carbon Cub SS in higher density altitude scenarios.
PLEASE NOTE: This Press Release is embargoed until 11:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time on 3/28/23.
“The Carbon Cub was first introduced in 2009 and has been an amazing aircraft for both CubCrafters and
the entire backcountry community,” stated Patrick Horgan, CubCrafters President and CEO. “It has
redefined expectations industry-wide for what a light STOL aircraft should be. Now, we’re reimagining
the Carbon Cub by incorporating the latest in pre-preg composites, more titanium components, and
innovative manufacturing techniques, along with the best new engine and avionics technologies for
even more performance and versatility.”
“The Carbon Cub UL is the culmination of years of investment in both human and economic resources,
the hard work of our industry-leading team, and our dedication to research and development. We
believe this aircraft will make a major contribution to unlocking the enormous potential of the
international marketplace,” added Horgan.
The production version of the new aircraft is slated to be initially built, certified, and test flown as a Light
Sport Aircraft (LSA) at the CubCrafters factory in Yakima, Washington, but will also meet Ultralight
category requirements in many international jurisdictions.
“The aircraft can remain in the LSA category for our customers in Australia, New Zealand, Israel, and
even the United States, but it can also be deregistered, exported, and then reregistered as an Ultralight
category aircraft in many jurisdictions in Europe, South America, and elsewhere,” explained Brad Damm,
Vice President of Sales and Marketing for CubCrafters. “This is a concept we’ve looked at for the last
several years. Our kit aircraft program has always been strong in overseas markets, and now we are very
excited to have a fully factory assembled and tested aircraft to offer to our international customers.”
The UL concept of a lighter and even better performing version of the Carbon Cub for international
markets was first seen earlier this month in Dubai, UAE. There, a technology demonstrator version of
the aircraft was able to successfully land and take off again from a 27-meter diameter heliport that is
suspended 56 stories above the ground on top of Dubai's iconic Burj Al Arab hotel as part of a recent
Red Bull project that inspired audiences worldwide.
The first Rotax 916 iS powered Carbon Cub UL, an engineering development prototype, is on display and
can be seen at the CubCrafters exhibit at Sun n’ Fun. CubCrafters will be accepting deposits for the
Carbon Cub UL starting at the show, and with the company’s current backlog of new aircraft orders, the
first consumer deliveries are expected in early 2025.
Much more information about the Carbon Cub UL, including a product launch Q&A, engine technical
specifications from Rotax, and video and still images of the aircraft and engine for editorial use can be
found at: https://cubcrafters.com/snf23
LAKELAND, FL – March 28, 2023 -- CubCrafters is introducing a new variant of its best-selling Carbon
Cub aircraft. In development for international markets, the new model is called the Carbon Cub UL.
The company has invested in several new technologies to make the Carbon Cub UL even lighter and
better performing than its predecessor, the Carbon Cub SS. The goal is a new airplane that features
multi-fuel technology (MOGAS & AVGAS), fully meets ASTM standards, and carries 2 adult people with a
full fuel load and a reasonable amount of baggage at a takeoff weight of 600 kg (1320 lbs) and under.
Key to the development of the new aircraft is CubCrafters’ collaboration with BRP-Rotax, which is
launching their new 160 HP turbocharged engine on the Carbon Cub UL. The new 916 iS engine is
lighter, more fuel efficient, and can produce more power than the normally aspirated CC340 engine on
the Carbon Cub SS in higher density altitude scenarios.
PLEASE NOTE: This Press Release is embargoed until 11:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time on 3/28/23.
“The Carbon Cub was first introduced in 2009 and has been an amazing aircraft for both CubCrafters and
the entire backcountry community,” stated Patrick Horgan, CubCrafters President and CEO. “It has
redefined expectations industry-wide for what a light STOL aircraft should be. Now, we’re reimagining
the Carbon Cub by incorporating the latest in pre-preg composites, more titanium components, and
innovative manufacturing techniques, along with the best new engine and avionics technologies for
even more performance and versatility.”
“The Carbon Cub UL is the culmination of years of investment in both human and economic resources,
the hard work of our industry-leading team, and our dedication to research and development. We
believe this aircraft will make a major contribution to unlocking the enormous potential of the
international marketplace,” added Horgan.
The production version of the new aircraft is slated to be initially built, certified, and test flown as a Light
Sport Aircraft (LSA) at the CubCrafters factory in Yakima, Washington, but will also meet Ultralight
category requirements in many international jurisdictions.
“The aircraft can remain in the LSA category for our customers in Australia, New Zealand, Israel, and
even the United States, but it can also be deregistered, exported, and then reregistered as an Ultralight
category aircraft in many jurisdictions in Europe, South America, and elsewhere,” explained Brad Damm,
Vice President of Sales and Marketing for CubCrafters. “This is a concept we’ve looked at for the last
several years. Our kit aircraft program has always been strong in overseas markets, and now we are very
excited to have a fully factory assembled and tested aircraft to offer to our international customers.”
The UL concept of a lighter and even better performing version of the Carbon Cub for international
markets was first seen earlier this month in Dubai, UAE. There, a technology demonstrator version of
the aircraft was able to successfully land and take off again from a 27-meter diameter heliport that is
suspended 56 stories above the ground on top of Dubai's iconic Burj Al Arab hotel as part of a recent
Red Bull project that inspired audiences worldwide.
The first Rotax 916 iS powered Carbon Cub UL, an engineering development prototype, is on display and
can be seen at the CubCrafters exhibit at Sun n’ Fun. CubCrafters will be accepting deposits for the
Carbon Cub UL starting at the show, and with the company’s current backlog of new aircraft orders, the
first consumer deliveries are expected in early 2025.
Much more information about the Carbon Cub UL, including a product launch Q&A, engine technical
specifications from Rotax, and video and still images of the aircraft and engine for editorial use can be
found at: https://cubcrafters.com/snf23
Attachments
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUtV-T-dZOI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLUuAm6CDe8
It was an LSA 340 powered carbon cub with an 84" catto, and nitrous.
WWhunter
FRIEND
Near the Headwaters of the Mighty Mississippi Rive
Are those engines as whiny inside the cabin as they are outside?
YES!! LOL They definitely take a bit of getting used to, after years listening to Lycomings and Continentals. Still don't trust that screamin mee mee!
acroeric
SPONSOR
Burlington, NC
Cool on the new Carbon Cub. I hate the way the Rotax sounds but that should be a cool powerplant especially at high altitudes.
IMO Cub Crafters is really dic*ing up this IPO and the push for investors. They are turning in to the mall crawler of the aviation world. Not 10 minutes after they landed a modified carbon cub on a helipad (had the ECI engine with nitrous not the Rotax) I get emails telling me what a great time to invest in their company it is.
Whoever is running the investor relations portion of that has a pretty inflated perception of the red bull thing. It was cool but at no point did I say "that's how I want to invest".
Just my 2 cents.
IMO Cub Crafters is really dic*ing up this IPO and the push for investors. They are turning in to the mall crawler of the aviation world. Not 10 minutes after they landed a modified carbon cub on a helipad (had the ECI engine with nitrous not the Rotax) I get emails telling me what a great time to invest in their company it is.
Whoever is running the investor relations portion of that has a pretty inflated perception of the red bull thing. It was cool but at no point did I say "that's how I want to invest".
Just my 2 cents.
aeroaddict
MEMBER
Boise ID area
Got the emails also. I think the new UL will be a great international seller. Just my opinion here, nothing else: in regards to sending my $$ to CC's, I think they have a good product but investing in these type of markets (which I include boats, RV's not the plane, side by sides) are subject to disposable income and that they are luxury products.
Also, I'm unsure about the S&F press release as the Patey videos said nothing about the Rotax. Patey did mention the 'carburetor' when talking about NOS and when his son was wrapping the plane, that engine was not a Rotax.
Also, I'm unsure about the S&F press release as the Patey videos said nothing about the Rotax. Patey did mention the 'carburetor' when talking about NOS and when his son was wrapping the plane, that engine was not a Rotax.
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mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
CC stated in one of their online ads that the airplane was of this new “flavor”. Their words not mine.
Here’s the quote from their FB page:
“CubCrafters announced the new Carbon Cub UL at opening day of Sun 'n fun, a new model with a new engine...
This new model landed on a helipad atop a skyscraper in Dubai recently...”
I suspect this new line of “International” airplanes may come with a range of engines.
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B. Damm said in a social media post he's beeing seeing 158 MPH true airspeed at 9.8 GPH in this airplane with the Rotax 916 iS.
He didn't say what altitude though, he has been known to go to the mid teens where O2 is required. He also said 50 MPH loiter on 2 GPH. I realize he's the salesman, but take it for what it's worth.
He didn't say what altitude though, he has been known to go to the mid teens where O2 is required. He also said 50 MPH loiter on 2 GPH. I realize he's the salesman, but take it for what it's worth.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
No it is not. That was a Carbon Cub SS with a 340 engine.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
The Rotax will open up sales in foreign markets where 100LL is scarce and they can run auto fuel. That is what I was told by the guys that flew with the new airplane to S&F. Curious to see how many they sell here in the US.
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
With 3200 hours of Rotax 912 time, just 117 of A-65 time, and with 40 hrs of 0-320 Lyc time, I'll freely admit I prefer the sound of the legacy engines. Especially the sound of the A-65 in my T-Craft when idling, nothing better than that! In the air, with the Lightspeed headset I fly with these days, it's not much of a factor as I usually have the Sirius radio on anyway. I believe the 2 GPH loiter number, as I get similar numbers often when putzing around, though more like 2.5 to 2.9 GPH. A 6.8 hr mountain ski flying flight (lots of landings and takeoffs, combined with some cruising) the other day resulted in a average fuel for the day of 3.6 GPH, mogas. BTW, many of the carbed/non turboed,non fuel injected 912 fliers like myself, are not much interested in the new Rotax varients, we think they are too complicated, add weight, etc. It's pretty ballsy of CC to offer this engine, quite the marketing departure for them. I forgot to add, the newer Rotax's are also too expensive!
The perceived noise to others on the ground...., probably a the combo of the prop RPM being offset from the exhaust pulse, plus the high RPM of course. For whatever reason, the tips I guess, the Prince P-Tip prop I use seems to make the Rotax sound pretty darn good, give a listen. https://youtu.be/mfOJi-TU-og That's why I have a brand new Prince on the hangar wall, as I don't want to wait over a year for a new one if needed in a hurry. Side note: with about 2500 hours on it, almost all off airport, gravel and rocks etc. the prop's eading edge is still pristine, (can't quite believe it myself) I've never had a better wearing prop.
The perceived noise to others on the ground...., probably a the combo of the prop RPM being offset from the exhaust pulse, plus the high RPM of course. For whatever reason, the tips I guess, the Prince P-Tip prop I use seems to make the Rotax sound pretty darn good, give a listen. https://youtu.be/mfOJi-TU-og That's why I have a brand new Prince on the hangar wall, as I don't want to wait over a year for a new one if needed in a hurry. Side note: with about 2500 hours on it, almost all off airport, gravel and rocks etc. the prop's eading edge is still pristine, (can't quite believe it myself) I've never had a better wearing prop.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
That P-tip certainly makes a difference.
kestrel
PATRON
Southern NH
I took that claim as marketing hyperbole. They copied a lot of the mods done to the helipad plane to reduce weight, but I'd call it a long stretch to claim much more than that.
Mudofficer
MEMBER
I would assume Rotax and CC are trying to make these engines and aircraft appeal to DOD buyers as well. With rotax already in use for several UAVs, and the military preferring to train maintainers on a common power plant... This will probably become more common to see in many new flying machines. The nostalgic sound is probably not much value when considering the absolute performance gains, fuel availability and modernization. 2000hr TBO, E10 fuel capable?! Wow, checks a lot of boxes. IMHO
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aeroaddict
MEMBER
Boise ID area
You are probably correct but I still think a car should have a V8 engine.
Seriously though, a modern capable GA aircraft engine that doesn't burn leaded fuel will undoubtedly have a greater market presence.
Seriously though, a modern capable GA aircraft engine that doesn't burn leaded fuel will undoubtedly have a greater market presence.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I don't want to have to work on that?
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
So you get sea level performance at your base airport in the summer? Or would you rather have a turbo normalized engine?
Not being a stranger to high density altitude does not make the performance reduction go away.
Utah-Jay
MEMBER
Heber City, UT
I have flown both a 912 100hp and a 915iS 141/135hp Rotax prior to my build (nearly complete) and Rotax was not an option for my Bearhawk build unless I wanted to go rogue and start designing an engine mount and redesigning CG for my plane. I chose to go with a 200hp Lycoming that the plane was designed for (180-215hp) as I really did not want to delay my build time.
Honestly I only know high DA’s as I live in Utah, lowest elevation I believe I have landed is in the 4,110’ range on Big Creek in Idaho. Any flying I will do at lower elevations will just be a bonus from my perspective.
Book numbers on my plane is a 1500-1700 rpm climb rate and 125-140mph at cruise settings
Honestly I only know high DA’s as I live in Utah, lowest elevation I believe I have landed is in the 4,110’ range on Big Creek in Idaho. Any flying I will do at lower elevations will just be a bonus from my perspective.
Book numbers on my plane is a 1500-1700 rpm climb rate and 125-140mph at cruise settings
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
Mine's exactly 3' higher, and it's been a decade or so since I've got to play in sea level air. No, I take that back, winter ski flying probably is similar. Winter ski flying, in sea level air now, would really be something! I get bugged by video's showing some STOL action, without saying: 1. what the elevation was 2. the temp 3. how much wind, though we can usually guess at that a bit. What I don't quite understand, is how much a turbo helps during a sea level takeoff, if at all? Until you get a few thousand feet up?
Several years ago, I flew, non-stop, from over Idaho's highest location (Borah Peak, 12,662', to it's lowest area, 710', no reason, just because I could.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
That depends on whether the turbo is turbo-normalized or turbo boosted. Normalized just recovers sea level manifold pressures while boosted provides more than sea level manifold pressures.
