LED Lights- Finding the Plug and Play for Cub

[Cardiff Kook]

I want to upgrade my lights to LED on my 1950 Piper Super Cub.

I have a parts manual and drawings (Northlands CD.)

how in the world do I figure out what the plug and play LED options are from the parts manual/drawings?

I found the landing light drawing which had a bulb GE4509 which I guess is a PAR36 light- so I found some subs for that. Which I think is this? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=19374

Do I want the orion 550 for the tail and the 650 for the nav/strobes?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...650series2.php
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...n550series.php

I am trying to figure out lights- but also how to use the parts manual to find the right substitute parts for things like lights.

[wireweinie]

There are no true plug and play lights for the wing tips/tail. Whelen 650s for the tips and 500 for the tail work well to install, but you still need to install new wiring to operate them. The Parmetheus PAR36 lamps are the best option if you want to just replace the land/taxi lights.

Web

[Bearhawk Builder]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=14946

This one fits the Piper rudder mount

[Bearhawk Builder]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=14946

These fit the Piper wing tips with a little modification to the tip mount. Make an aluminum plate to adapt from the wing tip mount to the light.

[Steve Pierce]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=14946

These fit the Piper wing tips with a little modification to the tip mount. Make an aluminum plate to adapt from the wing tip mount to the light.

Or a piece of 1/8" Plexi.

[stewartb]

Cardiff, what lights do you currently have? If only nav? You’ll need to pull another wire for the strobes. Much easier with LED than old school strobes, but it’s still a project. You’ll need to add a switch, too. You may choose to run a beacon on the strobe switch or add a dedicated beacon switch. I’m a fan of separate beacon switching but one of my planes has it, one is connected to the strobe switch, and for where I live it really doesn’t matter. In a busy airport area I always had the beacon on when the prop was spinning and waited for taking the runway to light up the strobes.

[Cardiff Kook]

This is what i currently gave. Why does it need new wires?

Landing light need new wires too?

[Cardiff Kook]

Equipment list says those are aeroflash strobes.

They were new in 2019 when it was rebuilt but one has gone intermittant.

[stewartb]

Check the connector. If it has a separate power supply, check the ground.

[Cardiff Kook]

Why do LED’s need new wiring? Dont know anything about this stuff

[wireweinie]

LED's have four wires each to connect. Power to strobe, power to nav, synch, and ground.

And NO! It's a bad idea to connect the nav and strobe to the same power wire.

Web

[Cardiff Kook]

Cardiff, what lights do you currently have? If only nav? You’ll need to pull another wire for the strobes. Much easier with LED than old school strobes, but it’s still a project. You’ll need to add a switch, too. You may choose to run a beacon on the strobe switch or add a dedicated beacon switch. I’m a fan of separate beacon switching but one of my planes has it, one is connected to the strobe switch, and for where I live it really doesn’t matter. In a busy airport area I always had the beacon on when the prop was spinning and waited for taking the runway to light up the strobes.

I currently have a strobe and nav light switch already. My plane doesnt have a beacon.

[Cardiff Kook]

LED's have four wires each to connect. Power to strobe, power to nav, synch, and ground.

And NO! It's a bad idea to connect the nav and strobe to the same power wire.

Web

So I will need new wires for landing/taxi light as well?

[stewartb]

If you have PAR36 bulbs now? LEDs like the Parmetheus line are plug and play.

[Cardiff Kook]

It looks like when previous owner recovered he put a square access hole under cover- but did not cut it out? I think that is how I access the power supply for those lights.

Can it be cut out? I am very hesitant to mess with the fabric at all- not sure why he would have put it in but not cut it out? Do I need to create an access to deal with lights?

[wireweinie]

So I will need new wires for landing/taxi light as well?

If you have PAR36 bulbs now? LEDs like the Parmetheus line are plug and play.

The landing and taxi lights only use a power and ground wire for each. The wires for the originals are wildly over sized but they will function. The biggest difference is that the wires need to be connected in the correct order (positive to (+) and ground to (-)) whereas the incandescent lamps don't care.

If you leave the original wiring in place and use LED landing/taxi lamps, keep that in mind. Any time you have a chance to open up that wing, you can step down to the correct size wire for the LEDs.

Web

[wireweinie]

It looks like when previous owner recovered he put a square access hole under cover- but did not cut it out? I think that is how I access the power supply for those lights.

Can it be cut out? I am very hesitant to mess with the fabric at all- not sure why he would have put it in but not cut it out? Do I need to create an access to deal with lights?

Pop out that round inspection panel. Look for a grey, multi conductor wire coming from the strobe light. Does it go to a silver power box, right there at the wing tip area or does it go all the way back to the fuselage? There are two types of strobe setups. One has a single power box near each strobe. The other has a single power box usually in the fuselage, that powers all three strobes.

Web

[stewartb]

Just take the housing and lens off. The flash tube should pull out and expose the connector. Make sure it’s clean and connected completely. And that the flash tube doesn’t look like the problem. If you’re serious about switching to LED, you should cut out the inspection hole and remove the power supply, then use the power wire that fed the power supply for the new strobe. Making and painting a cover is easy.

[dgapilot]

You can use any PAR 36 bulb you want in the landing lights. As for the NAV lights, the ASSEMBLY is TSOd (or type certificated under Part 15) meaning that the only bulb you can use in that assembly legally is the bulb that was used when they got the TSO. If you change out to an entirely new assembly that is TSOd with the LED, that works. That said, there are a lot of airplanes that have LEDs installed under those green, red and clear lenses. Not really legal, but who is going to catch you unless your IA is a real stickler for details.

[AZinAK]

I went with WAT Orion 660 wingtip lights with rear facing strobe and a Orion 550 tail light. Ran 20 gauge three wire twisted shielded from the panel to each wingtip and the tail. Used the shielding as a ground, one wire as a sync. Very happy with the performance.

[Rob]

This is what i currently gave. Why does it need new wires?

Landing light need new wires too?

Those strobes, when working correctly will be infinitely better (read: brighter and better for recognition, which is their sole purpose) than most any LED strobe on the market today, burn more juice? yes!, that's how come they are brighter. Replacing them would not be an upgrade it would be a step backwards, unless you are trying to save power?

Landing lights? that's a whole different animal, because most people don't rely on them to land somewhere dark, they rely on them for recognition, and occasionally landing somewhere with so much lighting that landing with no aircraft lighting would be a non event.

I'd recommend selecting landing lights based on what you really intend to use them for, in other words, landing or recognition.

Take care, Rob

[frequent_flyer]

I don't see much emphasis on taxi lights in this thread.

For tailwheel aircraft, particularly those on large Bushwheels, wing mounted landings lights may provide zero ground illumination. Some add LED taxi lights to the landing gear or lift struts. Some tilt down one of the wing lights. There may be other solutions.

[akmarty]

And NO! It's a bad idea to connect the nav and strobe to the same power wire.

Web

Dumb question? Why is it a bad idea?

Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

[wireweinie]

Dumb question? Why is it a bad idea?

Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

If you operate around other aircraft or in dusty/foggy conditions, you'll want to switch off the strobes but keep the navs on.

Web

[bob turner]

I am with Web. I hate to taxi into a runup area with Cherokee strobes on. Wait 'till those students are in the right seat on a major airline - the pros do not tolerate taxi with strobes on.

[arborite]

Based on the OP’s photo, the AeroLeds Pulsar series is pretty close to bolt on. his original tip lights almost certainly have four wires out there not including the Nav light local ground. the strobe wire is a three conductor (anode, cathode, trigger) bundle, and the nav has a dedicated switched supply wire. the AeroLeds units need four wires (NAV switched power, Strobe switched power, Common ground, sync). Assuming he has a single strobe power supply, it’s easy to rewire for new LEDs without pulling any new wire. In addition, the Aeroleds mounting base has the same bolt pattern as that old wingtip unit, so it may very well bolt on.

Of course almost nothing in aviation is truly bolt on so caveat emptor. if he has individual strobe boxes in the wingtips as earlier referenced, it may take more wiring work.

[Cardiff Kook]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=14946

These fit the Piper wing tips with a little modification to the tip mount. Make an aluminum plate to adapt from the wing tip mount to the light.

so i can still use the red housing i already have in the picture? I am at a bit of a loss of how this is done. Maybe over my head.

[wireweinie]

The Whelen 650 series fits the Cub wing tip brackets as well as anything. Whatever brand/model you settle on, to do the job correctly, you will need to remove power supply from each wing, remove the old light assemblies, and remove all wiring used for the original lights. Then, fit new lights to existing brackets and install new wire from light assemblies to the cockpit switches. Finally, install the correct breakers (breaker switches?) for the new wire size. These steps are required no matter what model light assemblies you choose.

Web

[stewartb]

In-wing power packs? I’d extend the power wires that now supply the power packs. Change the breaker if needed. If you have a multi-strobe power supply? It gets more difficult.

[mvivion]

There's no way I'd lose those existing strobes. Rob is right: True strobes, like those, are far brighter and more noticeable than ANY LED "flashers".

Figure out what's going on with the strobe that's intermittent, then follow DGA's suggestion above: order LED BULBS for the position lights. Remove the respective covers, replace the bulbs, and voila! You have good strobes and LED position lights, with minimal fussing about.

Landing lights as above: LEDs. And, the stock Cub landing/taxi light holders have adjustments to aim the respective lights. Landing should be slightly down, taxi significantly down. Easy Peasy.

MTV

[BC12D-4-85]

I see LED flashers better than single flash strobes during the day. The LED's can slowly turn off and on versus a quick burst of strobe lights. Multi-flash strobes (like 2-3 flashes per event) are better. Local C-208 Caravans have the LED's and they are very visible. At night it makes less difference.

Edit: I see now there are multi-flash LED's> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QkxOuDLAZk

Gary

[mvivion]

I see LED flashers better than single flash strobes during the day. The LED's can slowly turn off and on versus a quick burst of strobe lights. Multi-flash strobes (like 2-3 flashes per event) are better. Local C-208 Caravans have the LED's and they are very visible. At night it makes less difference.

Edit: I see now there are multi-flash LED's> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QkxOuDLAZk

Gary

Yeah, but you're old, Gary.....

MTV

[stewartb]

Wingtip strobes? No hesitation to use LEDs if it’s time to replace unless the strobes are Comet Flash and the power supply is still good. The rapid flash is what makes the old style better. Single flash? I have both and can’t see any difference.

[BC12D-4-85]

Synchronous flashing helps......vs one at a time for me. And yes I'm older and SS eligible, but I can still see polar orbiting satellites at night. Or even the occasional UFO?

Gary

[mvivion]

Synchronous flashing helps......vs one at a time for me. And yes I'm older and SS eligible, but I can still see polar orbiting satellites at night. Or even the occasional UFO?

Gary

But can you read a newspaper, without cheaters?

MTV

[BC12D-4-85]

But can you read a newspaper, without cheaters? MTV

Newspaper? What's that? I can w/o glass if I turn up the font on the 'puter.

But to topic. The old Whelen red 2-bulb rotating beacons on the tail or fuselage (top and bottom) were easy to see, even during daylight. Most of what I watch now soon disappear unless the lights are on for a bit and real bright. If I were going to the trouble of upgrading I'd source the brightest lights available. Lumens stuff.

Gary

[mvivion]

Newspaper? What's that? I can w/o glass if I turn up the font on the 'puter.

But to topic. The old Whelen red 2-bulb rotating beacons on the tail or fuselage (top and bottom) were easy to see, even during daylight. Most of what I watch now soon disappear unless the lights are on for a bit and real bright. If I were going to the trouble of upgrading I'd source the brightest lights available. Lumens stuff.

Gary

But, that is the point: Strobes are generally brighter than LEDs. I put a SkyBeacon on my plane for ADS-B out. It provides an LED red position light, which is indeed much brighter than the old Grimes light it replaced. But the LED “Strobe”, which is actually a flasher, is nowhere near as bright to my eye as the Whelan strobe it replaced.

MTV

[Gordon Misch]

But the LED “Strobe”, which is actually a flasher, is nowhere near as bright to my eye as the Whelan strobe it replaced.

Yes. I was quite disappointed. And - the Uavionics "strobe" makes an audible "flash" on the radio/intercom system. The company rep didn't seem real interested when I brought that up at the Puyallup trade show a year or two ago. The Wheelen system is flawless.

Edit: But on the upside, I'm ADSB compliant, with very little effort. Sometimes that's very helpful here in the Pacific Northwest.

[BC12D-4-85]

Lumens, Lux, and Candella all walked into a bar> https://flywat.com/blogs/blog/lumens...the-difference

Wonder who walked out?

Gary

[md11freighter]

I have my navs/strobes wired together and a beacon on a separate switch. Living in Alaska flying at night scares the crumb out of me. I just turn on my navs when I take the runway like the big jets do. No reason to have navs on during daylight hours.