One of my students is getting ready to modify his Super Cub. He plans on the Keller slotted flaps (I approve) and wants the flap handle in the overhead (not sure I approve).
I am a long-legged dude, so never had much trouble with the stock handle, but he apparently does - so help him out. Will he also need a good helmet?
A good guy - he starts with Southwest next month. 24, with a degree from USC. Impressive.
I don’t like ANYthing that close to my head, helmet or no.
MTV
Does that mod come with the STC? Just rig the stick to the right if needed or bend the flap handle.
DENNY
An overhead handle allows drive rods and bell cranks. Eliminates cables and pulleys. It’s a great improvement. I wish I did it in my plane. Someday I still might.
How do legs make pulling flaps easier? It takes reach. Clocking a standard handle isn’t difficult, but I’m a fan of the overhead thing IF he can get it approved. Especially as the Keller flaps get longer.
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Not a good idea if the new flaps require more force to deploy. I had to lengthen mine.Originally Posted by aktango58
NX1PA
Is he experimental?
I wanted overhead with 'direct drive' but ended up getting what was available so it is standard on the floor (but wide-body so moved outboard).
I was used to reaching the handle in my '63 Cub (never ever, should have sold) but it is nice to not have to move the head down or reach too far to get at them. Also I will have the PSTOL (Keller) that are slightly extended, don't want a shorter handle due to the effort of that last notch, if anything longer would help - of course just be slow when you deploy as to not bend anything anyway.. squirrell - the whole point of my post is coming..
Pondering something like this (image below) a D shaped handle welded to the straight handle that part way down and is easier to reach for that first notch or so, then slide hand up the handle for the harder pulls. Drawback no button or trigger on the D part for release. Or (looks dorky) just a second handle welded on at an angle with a second button - some monkeying around but could probably do a dual button release set up.
Has anyone messed with something like this to confirm it is a silly idea or? Being able to do this goofy stuff makes me miss my '63 certified less
An STC'd option. Can't find pictures of the cub version
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...ges/ezflap.php
https://youtu.be/Bnu3yXcWt9U
Last edited by eskimo77; 03-21-2023 at 10:55 AM.
I've got my shoulder harness adjusted so I can just reach this loop with my finger to get the first notch. It is a shortened handle with PSTOL flaps
Nice!
I'll have to sit in the seat (when I put it back in) and play with best positioning. I'm thinking a loop farther down the handle but extending toward me more. Of course the loop would be awkward and too low eventually with anything but that first pull or so. Be nice to have dual handle with a release button (or trigger) if wanting to pop them on then release and raise flaps slowly after TO without having to bend too much also. Much to ponder.
I've got my shoulder harness adjusted so I can just reach this loop with my finger to get the first notch. It is a shortened handle with PSTOL flaps
Oh thanks - I missed your post when the email notification took me to the last response.
I guess I wasn't the first to think of this (wink). Exactly what I was thinking with the second option, but just build it in. I see that has a trigger - again much to ponder and figure out.
Hmm.. I found the guy who made the handle posting on backcountry pilot but was some years ago. His website links are all dead (ezflaphandle.com). He did indeed make a PA-18 style but I can't find an image yet either, even though it is for sale at Aircraft Spruce EU.
EDIT.. and LOL, the thread on BackcountryPilot turned into a pissing match mess.
Last edited by Scott A; 03-21-2023 at 11:30 AM.
I added Airframes Alaska PSTOL flaps to my Cub recently. As noted above it took quite a bit of effort to release that last notch. I had a look at the catch mechanism and it had very sharp stamped metal edges. I smoothed those edges a bit some some fine sandpaper and sort of polished the surfaces like one would a rifle trigger. Made a noticeable difference,, much smoother and easier to release now.
Cub flap levers don’t need the button pushed to pull flaps on. I pull the first notch (easy effort) near the base of the lever, then the rest is easy to reach. Retracting has never been any problem. Much easier to manage than Skywagon flaps.
Thanks for tip stid2677, I don't have my wings yet - but I do have a box with some beautiful PSTOL flaps in the garage.
Big flaps aren’t hard to use in the first couple of notches. It’s at full flaps when effort is high and the flap lever is near vertical when it gets challenging. That’s a very awkward position to pull against the pressure of the flaps, and the longer the handle the better.
Yes, that is why was thinking the loop or whatever just for easy reach to get started then you move hand up to the regular portion. The extension would get too far behind on side to have any leverage as you say.
I think the problem is that if your legs are short, the handle interferes with your knee and the stick on strong left crosswind landings. I personally have never noticed it, and I seek crosswind landings. Modern pilots don’t seem to need ailerons in crosswinds - students over 45 transitioning to tailwheel have never even heard of using ailerons into the wind, and require literally hundreds of landings before it becomes automatic.
Picture it - left crosswind. Touchdown normal, appropriate cross-control, with left main and tailwheel touching down first.
Then, the nose starts off to the left, and the pilot shoves the stick to the right to compensate. Next step - groundloop.
But I digress - thanks for the many answers. So, no STC for my soon-to-be-helmeted student.
I don't think my legs are short and they certainly aren't fat. Still cursed the PA-18-180 flap handle a few times when I found left stick blocked in a crosswind landing. I now prefer the high left position of the FX-3 flap handle although it did take a while to get used to it.
A high time C-46 guy told me always thinks “Drive it into the ditch” for aileron use in crosswinds.
The “EZ-Flap” thing went sideways when the guy who designed it claimed that Cessnas and Pipers were dangerous till his creation appeared. It was a “spirited” discussion.
MTV
I'm looking forward to finding out how it feels with the wide-body, and being mounted out at the sidewall, those two should give me considerable more left aileron than I had in original cub. Can always try increasing the throw like Bill did with an extension on the bottom of aileron torque tube arm - of course tradeoff is heavier feel. I think I will not mess with that for now.
I used to fly standard flaps with a short flap handle, after putting Airframes flaps on I had to put a stock handle to be able to dump full flaps. I have my seat as far forward as I can due to my height. Wish I would have had these flap 40 years ago!
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Why do you need the longer handle to dump flaps? At landing speed I can operate my flaps easily enough. It takes muscle at approach speeds. I’m trying to understand your comment.
Thanks.
Hi Stewart, I have my seat all the way forward and had a very short flap handle, I fly hunters etc. mainly and had difficulty when having to do a go around on someplace I had not landed before.
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stewartb thanked for this post
I've flown two different Cubs with stock flaps and the shortened handle, and hated both. No way I'd do that to a perfectly good airplane.
MTV
Common mod around here. What specifically don't you like about it?
Web
Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
Pretty much the same thing Airguide described. With the short lever, when you're trying to dump flaps from full flaps, getting the little bugger to turn loose can require a REALLY hard pull, and the geometry really doesn't fit my shoulder well.
I've flown a lot of Cubs with standard levers, and in a lot of different situations, and never really had a beef with them. Pick your crosswinds, and you can work your leg around that lever.
Maybe it's just the way I'm articulated.....
MTV
I guess I don’t understand the problem. I have shortened handle on stock then airframe’s flaps. I feel a Short handle is necessary in a crosswind. If the flap handle is to hard to pull you are simply going to fast. Practice more slow flight and get comfortable going slow as it gives you more time to evaluate the landing area.
You make a good point, but like I said my seat is forward of normal, several thousand hours of flying slow trying to get in a alder patch with a 250 pound hunter in the back seat and hanging on the prop on a missed approach makes the short handle hard to drop one notch of flaps, just sayin!
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I found your seat forward comment interesting. In Cubs I have my seat slid back to the stops. I’ve never had any problem retracting flaps. I guess the world really doesn’t revolve around me.With my wings? A longer flap handle is necessary to pull flaps. I’d like it longer but would worry about stress on the pulleys. Funny that I fly my 180 with the seat as far forward as it goes, which is limited by the seat cushion hitting the forward door post. That helps reach the flap handle in that plane but I do it for pedal feel.
Stuart I am not smart enough to fly anything but a cub but I have had almost 50 years of fun flying one. By the way your cub builder at Birchwood is one of the best!I found your seat forward comment interesting. In Cubs I have my seat slid back to the stops. I’ve never had any problem retracting flaps. I guess the world really doesn’t revolve around me.
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I really dislike the standard 'long' handle for cub flaps.
My legs are short but I got the Clydesdale genetics for diameter. Not enough room for flap handle, full left aileron and my leg to work rudders without resetting the stick WAY over to the right.
My friends plane has the Keller flaps, and as I recall the short handle. seems very easy to release.
That said, I fly lots of Skywagon, and newer ones, which takes the same arm strength as a 1960's Ford truck without power steering.
The Maule is no picnic either working the flaps, but if they pull hard you are over speed...
Gizmos are gizmos. There is one for each of us to like- we are lucky folks still try to innovate.
I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
I bought this cub ,my second one 40 years ago and turn 80 years this year, thousands of hours flying in Alaska flying Part 135 and part 91, most of my time is on the Alaska Peninsula . Wish I had those flaps years ago and I realize I am not as stout as I was years back. What ever works use it and thanks for not telling me to practice!
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I changed out to Airframes PSTOL flaps back in January of 2018, absolutely amazing flaps! As part of the STC there is an option for a shortened flap handle. I went with the shortened flap handle since in left crosswinds it seemed that I never had full aileron travel since my leg was pushed up to the flap handle. After I started using them the left aileron travel was much better as my leg was able to go over the flap lever, but it was very difficult to extend full flaps in anything over 55mph. So came up with a grip for the flap handle and had my mechanic fabricate it (Dan Byker, Hawarden Iowa). Definitely solved the problem. I use the palm of my hand - thumb palm to push the flap button and grab the grip with my fingers. Here are a couple pictures and the sketch I drew Dan Byker. My You Tube channel has a couple of PSTOL videos on it that document my conversion to PSTOLS http://www.youtube.com/@Cubonaut875/videos You might have to scroll down to find the PSTOL videos.
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