Emag questions again

[hunt/trapak88]

Starting to gather up parts for exp build. Carbureted 0-375. Can’t decide if to stay tried and true Bendix, one Bendix and one Emag or dual Emags. I’ve read till eyes have bleed on the topic. Census seems with Emags it’s starts better and better fuel burn. 1-1.5gph better from my readings. My response to the “starts better” would be that I’ve hand propped for 1000hrs from a c90 to a 0-360 all with composite props. I have never thought they were hard to start once i figured out the engines routine. Better fuel burn of course would be appreciated. The ability to run the cheaper auto plugs a plus as well.

Battery is dead in the bush…no big deal just use a 9v they say. But what does that do for you if the battery is dead and won’t hold a charge (for some reason it isn’t working properly). I know that is a one off scenario but would only take one of those situations to make a crap deal even crappier if a ways from the house. I personally know of several who have had failures on either one or both emags but supposedly that was the “early” ones and problem Was identified and cured..??

Better fuel burn would be my main reason for wanting to get something other than slicks/Bendix. For those of you that have or do run one standard and one emag (I would want to put standard on the left) do you still see the fuel burn benefits with just the one Emag and you can still run auto plugs on the tops correct? I know nothing of these other than what I’ve been reading. Thanks for any info

[tedwaltman1]

There is endless "debate" on this topic. I have two e-mags from https://emagair.com/ . Love them. There is a 9-V backup circuit you can install. So, if your main battery dies you can plug in a std 9-V from the hardware store and hand prop. e-mags are self powering after 800 rpm.

Either go with two std mags or two e-mags--do NOT mix. That is just my opinion.

[stewartb]

It’s hard to imagine a situation where even my “dead” starting battery doesn’t have more energy than a 9v Duracell. For that day I carry a Jump Pack. I like my dual Pmags okay. If I was doing it over I’d probably use EFII’s System 32 ignition. Pmag’s little wires are annoying. To me the big benefit of any EI is realized in combination with fuel injection.

[wireweinie]

Either go with two std mags or two e-mags--do NOT mix. That is just my opinion.

Why is that? Have you had some kind of compatibility issues?

Web

[hunt/trapak88]

There is endless "debate" on this topic. I have two e-mags from https://emagair.com/ . Love them. There is a 9-V backup circuit you can install. So, if your main battery dies you can plug in a std 9-V from the hardware store and hand prop. e-mags are self powering after 800 rpm.

Either go with two std mags or two e-mags--do NOT mix. That is just my opinion.

self powering north of 800rpms. That’s where I was mistaken. The what if scenario I mentioned then is a non issue. Thanks

[EdH]

Dual EMags for sure. I always carry a small “jumpstart” lithium battery anyway. If your battery is fully dead and you handprop, you still won’t have anything coming from the alternator unless you energize the solenoid with an external battery. You can fly, but have no electrics. A backup lithium battery is small, lightweight, and has many other uses. I have a harness wired onto my battery so I can just plug it in. So IMO, the battery requirement to start is not a problem, I always have that anyway, even though I have slick mags. Worst case with an EMag, “jump” it, hand prop it and keep it above the 800ish RPM before you take off. Then you’re flying exactly as you would if you hand propped a dead battery with magnetos.

Also, it’s not like mags are the epitome of reliability or performance, After my last 500hr (not needed on EMags), one of my mags failed 10 hrs later. It was “warrantied” but still a PITA. I’d switch to EMags in a heartbeat if they were certified.

Even the 800~ RPM cutoff isn’t an issue. It’s not a hard stop at exactly that rpm, they just can’t guarantee there will be a hot enough spark below that for every engine/compression combo. The engineer at EMag recommended you test it on your engine and see exactly when it dies. Also, when coming in on approach, your idle is significantly higher, and likely above 800, unless you really try to get it lower.




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[bamendala]

Like previously stated just carry a jumper pack. And yes you can run auto plugs. I ran one emag and one slick for years with zero issues. Emag on the right and slick with impulse on the left
No issues. Not much difference in fuel burn from dual slicks. I had two mags, then one emag and one slick, now one emag and one electoair. I didnt see any difference in fuel burn between any of the setups. It is nice to run a $3 plug instead if a $30 plug

[tedwaltman1]

To answer Web’s question my opinion on not mixing std with just one e-mag. From the e-mag air website:

”We need to be clear. In a split-system, keeping the magneto does not hurt anything. That’s not the issue. The problem is it doesn’t “help” anything. Operating alongside an EI, the magneto is most often firing 1) weak and 2) late. It’s essentially turned into a seven pound oil plug. In a small aircraft, where builders work hard to shave ounce everywhere they can, this is unacceptable and unnecessary.”

[stewartb]

CDI ignition guys can say the same about Pmags.

[DENNY]

If I remember correctly improved MPG does not kick in until you are at higher altitudes.
DENNY

[stewartb]

https://www.flyefii.com/products/efi...on-comparison/

[hunt/trapak88]

Crazy to see all the different things different folks say. I thought it was set in stone about the pretty much instant better burn rate. Contradictory many times. Not only info off Emag site but also what others say.

“You get 80% of the benefits with one Emag” I’ve seen by many. Now the standard mag is just a boat anchor doing nothing. Now some say no change in economy from standards to emags. Now only at higher altitudes. I know everyone’s mileage varies, but odd it’s all over the map.

[hunt/trapak88]

Like previously stated just carry a jumper pack. And yes you can run auto plugs. I ran one emag and one slick for years with zero issues. Emag on the right and slick with impulse on the left
No issues. Not much difference in fuel burn from dual slicks. I had two mags, then one emag and one slick, now one emag and one electoair. I didnt see any difference in fuel burn between any of the setups. It is nice to run a $3 plug instead if a $30 plug

Interesting on the no change in fuel burn between 3 different setups. Which engine? Agreed on the cheaper auto plugs.

[hunt/trapak88]

Good info Stewart

[bamendala]

Interesting on the no change in fuel burn between 3 different setups. Which engine? Agreed on the cheaper auto plugs.

Yeah I just haven't seen the savings.. might just be my style of flying. I have an 0320 160hp and I've been flying it for 22 years. If I take off with 30 gallons and fly for an hour I come back.with , 23 or 24. I'm usually at 1000 ft or lower. And as far as all the charts show of the internet I just can't buy it cause I've had three different set ups and all have been relatively in the same ballpark. If I burn 6 gph on one flight I won't post that I burn 6gph cause my next flight ill probably burn 8 +! Haha! Again just my personal experience and probably too many water landings

[frequent_flyer]

When considering any fuel economy benefit I think one should be careful to separate gallons per hour from miles per gallon. It's possible to keep an engine with fuel injection and electronic ignition runing at very low fuel flow but that setting may not give the best mpg.

[Olibuilt]

Carbureted stock O-360 C4P

I've had a Slick magneto failure.

So I bought 2 EMags. I love the cheap auto plugs, engine is very easy to fire, did not notice any fuel burn change but I don't monitor or care for it either.

[Supercubrancher]

So Oliobuilt loves his EMags, and looking at the comparison on EFII sight the EMags should barley start an engine. I looked long and hard at EFII fuel injection, then talked to an EFII dealer about EFII on the 520 Continental and they recommended TCM fuel injection over EF injection. So I had a TCM fuel injection built for me, I understand that the setting up for the mech fuel inj is an arduioius day but the IO520 that I have been around, limited experience, runs great. I have not picked an ignition source, the EMags stood out for me because of the internal generator, electrical failure and my prop keeps spinning. I understand backup battery, buss manager, and so on, but simple is good, and experimental is great! Scrappy has electronic ignition and guess who was at our local FBO last summer with ignition problems. Would really like someone with the EFII ignition to chime in here.

[skywagon8a]

So I had a TCM fuel injection built for me, I understand that the setting up for the mech fuel inj is an arduioius day .

Permanently install extra fuel pressure gauges as described in the Continental manual for that test set up. Then it is a simple process without all the monkey motion of installing and removing the test instruments. I dislike running the engine at full power on the ground doing this test and adjustment. Fly it around the pattern and make an adjustment if you need it. You can check the pressure on all your take offs to know if it needs fine tuning. It seldom does. I used a JPI slimline fuel pressure for this setup. https://www.jpinstruments.com/shop/s...e-instruments/

I've also had good luck with my Emags. Simple one piece no extra parts. Does Emag make a 6 cylinder version now?

[Supercubrancher]

Why yes they do, and you can by 2 new EMags for the price of rebuilding one Bendix mag. Thanks for the PIREP on the EMags skywagon!

I've also had good luck with my Emags. Simple one piece no extra parts. Does Emag make a 6 cylinder version now?[/QUOTE]

[hunt/trapak88]

Why yes they do, and you can by 2 new EMags for the price of rebuilding one Bendix mag. Thanks for the PIREP on the EMags skywagon!

I've also had good luck with my Emags. Simple one piece no extra parts. Does Emag make a 6 cylinder version now?

[/QUOTE]


Please tell me where I can buy two Emags for around $1000. Last time I checked they were $1755 ea.

[Farmboy]

It’s a very muddy EI/EFI world. Don’t forget to add SDS into the mix to ensure a full target to throw your dart at.

http://www.sdsefi.com


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[stewartb]

I have what’s considered state of the art for mechanical injection. There’s no question in my mind that EFI provides more precise control of fuel, particularly for LOP operations. Whether talking EI or EFI, a guy needs to decide what’s good enough for his use. Some want the best and want to have the ability to manipulate their system with a panel programmer. Some just want it to run. I wanted max power with minimum fiddling. I didn’t wire my Pmage for EICAD. My plane works fine as is with the stock timing curve. But it doesn’t stop me from dreaming about better.

I think any exp builder looking into EI needs to take a hard look at FI, whether mechanical or electronic. That’s where the bigger gains lie.