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Should I upgrade my ELT to 406 mhz?

wireweinie said:
That's part of this ELT fight. All ELTs are still subject to the inspection requirements of 91.207.

(1) Proper installation;
(2) Battery corrosion;
(3) Operation of the controls and crash sensor; and
(4) The presence of a sufficient signal radiated from its antenna.

With the programmed codes present in the signal of a 406 ELT, I like to add 'checking for proper codes' in 91.207, (4). If you believe that any built in test function meets all these requirements, then, if challenged, where is the proof? Where is the measurement of signal power? And if the ELT is programmed incorrectly (country code, N number, etc) how do you know. It's very common to find incorrect country codes on newer aircraft and incorrect codes on aircraft recently bought/sold.

But If the ELT is tested on the correct equipment, all codes read out for verification, signal strength is measured (406, 243, and 121.5 mhz), and the time elapsed on battery usage is read out.

Web
Click to expand...

Kind of a catch 22. The ELT provides instructions on how to test (instructions for continued airworthiness) to comply with the 92.207(d) requirement. Since the 406 mhz ELT is not required by 91.207, there is no requirement to test that portion of it, only the 121.5 part.


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wireweinie said:
91.207 does not call out frequencies. Therefore the same test requirements apply to any ELT.

Web
Click to expand...

Unction 91.207 calls out a requirement to install a TSO C126 ELT, they can’t require you to test the 406 mhz output. I’m not saying it isn’t a good idea, but I’m not running out to buy test equipment for something that (a) isn’t in the ICA published by the manufacturer and (b) is not a requirement of the regulation. The manual produced by the manufacturer is part of the TSOA, and FAA has found that the ICAs sufficient for the continued use of that equipment.


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(4) The presence of a sufficient signal radiated from its antenna.

This is the requirement for measuring out put power. It's required for all ELTs. There is no wording in 91.207 that allows 406's to not be tested for this. I agree that some of the ICAs allow testing that is in contradiction with these requirements but it's a hollow argument. Sooner or later someone is going to get called on the carpet and forced to explain why they did not follow 91.207.
And I'm not trying to get owners to go out and buy their own test equipment. But all avionics shops have these boxes by now and it only takes about fifteen minutes to to run the test.
As far as trusting the ICAs, I don't on this one for the above reasons. I think the ones that allow a self test in contradiction of 91.207 requirements are ill advised, at best.

Web
 
Can we at least agree to use the correct units for frequency. The base unit is Hz (upper case H and lower case z). The multiplier mega is M (upper case M). Lower case m means "milli".

121.5 MHz please.
 
Last edited:
skywagon8a said:
From the horse's mouth.
https://www.acrartex.com/products/elt-345-transmitter/
" The ARTEX ELT 345 transmits on 406 MHz and 121.5 MHz frequencies while providing positon accuracy thanks to the built-in GPS navigational interface. "
Click to expand...

As pointed out by someone else,
a "gps interface" would seem to require an external gps signal.
They kinda gloss over that, probably not by accident.

stewartb said:
You don’t have a portable GPS in your plane? Pretty much all of them can feed an ELT position data.
Click to expand...

All I have is my android tablet, running the Avare app.
Pretty sure there's no RS232 output to route to an elt.
I do have an old garmin 196 but I haven't used it in several years.

I also have a Garmin G5 in the panel.
It has a built in gps, but maybe only for direction of travel not location.
I need to read the (close to 200 page) user's manual to see if it has the RS232 output.
 
I wired up a Garmin 18x PC GPS Navigator Unit to my ACK E-04 ELT, tested it with the LED tester. Works great, as near as I can tell.
 
hotrod180 said:
I also have a Garmin G5 in the panel.
It has a built in gps, but maybe only for direction of travel not location.
I need to read the (close to 200 page) user's manual to see if it has the RS232 output.
Click to expand...

Probably easier to use a text search function as most Garmin documents are searchable PDF.

The G5 has one RS-232 serial data port. According to the installation manual it can be configured to provide NMEA-183 output -

"Supports the input and output of standard NMEA 0183 version 3.01 data at a configurable baud rate of either 4800 or 9600. The G5 outputs GPS data via
NMEA sentences. This input format is used when interfacing a portable GPS navigation unit like a Garmin Aera 660."
 
hotrod180 said:
As pointed out by someone else,
a "gps interface" would seem to require an external gps signal.
They kinda gloss over that, probably not by accident.
Click to expand...
Yup! Likely to confuse those of us who are not so electronically inclined. It sure did confuse me.
 
frequent_flyer said:
Perhaps you should push for a correction to the Aeronautical Information Manual which currently states -

"121.5 MHz and 243.0 MHz. Both have a range generally limited to line of sight. 121.5 MHz is guarded by direction finding stations and some military and civil aircraft. 243.0 MHz is guarded by military aircraft. Both 121.5 MHz and 243.0 MHz are guarded by military towers, most civil towers, and radar facilities. Normally ARTCC emergency frequency capability does not extend to radar coverage limits. If an ARTCC does not respond when called on 121.5 MHz or 243.0 MHz, call the nearest tower."
Click to expand...

It seems that AIM update is required.

During a simulated engine failure in yesterday's flight review my instructor mentioned a NOTAM that advised 121.5 was no longer monitored at local control towers. I was unable to find that NOTAM but I have confirmed that 121.5 is not monitored at KDVT and KGEU.

Today I called Prescott FSS and was told they had stopped monitoring 121.5 about 2 years ago. The two briefers I spoke with believed that monitoring of 121.5 had been dropped by FSS and towers and that 121.5 was now monitored only by Center (ZAB or LAX for my area).

I asked two different briefers where I could find any official notification of the change and neither could provide any reference.

I called ZAB and they confirmed they monitor 121.5 and that LAX does too. My contact was unable to provide any information on any FAA policy document.
 

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I asked a guy here from the tower if they still monitor 121.5 and 243.0 and he said yes. Only thing they use it for is airliners looking for the next center frequency.
 
Do you like ADSB, and liked renewing your registration every 3 years, and like spending money and doing tedious tasks every annual? If yes, follow your governments recommendations.
 
Skysurfer said:
Do you like ADSB, and liked renewing your registration every 3 years, and like spending money and doing tedious tasks every annual? If yes, follow your governments recommendations.
Click to expand...

More to the point, if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident, particularly in remote terrain, would you like to see one of those government black helicopters overhead fairly soon after arrival?

MTV
 
I am still lost here as to what unit to get.

I don't have GPS in the Cub- other than Foreflight. I do have a transponder- but don't think that has GPS.

The Artex 345 is $850. The ACK E-04 is $750.

Only option I see with a built in GPS is the Kanaan Integra. That unit is $1758- so $900 more.

Would I be better of getting one with an interface and buying a GPS source with the $900 savings?
 
What is the cost of a portable GPS with RS-232 data lines? Add that to the cost of the ELT and you have your answer.

Web
 
I can make a harness for the ELT 345 for about $75 or $80 dollars. Plug and play. If you do the work yourself you can have an updated ELT for about $1785. That would be cheaper if you already have a portable GPS.

Keep in mind that the portable GPS can be battery powered or wired to the aircraft bus, or both. If you have a battery pack in the unit, you can pull it out of the wreck and carry it with if you need to walk out.

Web
 
Cardiff Kook said:
Would I be better of getting one with an interface and buying a GPS source with the $900 savings?
Click to expand...

Trig TN72 is an an option and half the price of some other WAAS GPS receivers. Of course you can buy a perfectly adequate GPS receiver puck with RS-232 interface on eBay for under $50. Just don't "install" it in a type certificated aircraft. You don't need WAAS position accuracy for finding a crashed aircraft.
 
Cardiff Kook said:
Garmin Aera 660 is $849 on Aircraft Spruce. 760 is $1560

Is the math that simple?
Click to expand...

What kind of portable GPS do you have right now? Do you have an Aera 500 series? Maybe an old 396 or 496? They work just fine and plug right into the ELT interface (with the right connector).

Web
 
I do have a 396 on the 185 I was going to scrap as I dont think it is doing much for me. Maybe i will move that over to the cub.
 
Does anyone make an inexpensive GPS antenna / receiver that could connect to one of these ELT's?
You surely don't need a display etc when all it's going to be used for is to provide location info.
All I've got for GPS is a tablet running an app--
don't think it has the 232 RSR or whatever output,
plus I wouldn't want to run wires from the panel back to the elt anyways.
 
hotrod180 said:
Does anyone make an inexpensive GPS antenna / receiver that could connect to one of these ELT's?
Click to expand...

Yes, as I said in an ealier post - available for well under $50 on eBay. I purchased one and found it worked as advertised. Documentation is inadequate and you need to find the right software app to configure it for the required output data format. (I may still have notes if you decided to go that way.)

Here is one example but it may not be the exact type I experimented with - https://tinyurl.com/2s8cwwzc

Some would consider the Trig TN72 inexpensive at under $500 but it's more receiver than you need for an ELT. -

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/trig-tn72.php
 
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