Thanks: 
Likes: Building up a Javron L-21 and just saw this video. Looking forward to getting some info on it as folks try them out. Would be nice to do the install prior to covering if it turns out to be a good mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-NxCwQaA3U
Building up a Javron L-21 and just saw this video. Looking forward to getting some info on it as folks try them out. Would be nice to do the install prior to covering if it turns out to be a good mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-NxCwQaA3U
The Sportsman cuff is simply the best thing you can do to a Cessna wing. Larry is a pretty smart and significantly experienced guy…..if he likes it, I’m betting it’ll be a winner.
MTV
That sure looks like the Cal Center cuff which was so popular back in the 80s on many different certified airplanes.
NX1PADENNY liked this post
I was thinking the same thing. The possible slight increase in speed in not surprising. Increase in wing area usually helps all around.Originally Posted by skywagon8a
DENNY
Regarding the sealing question. Once the cuffs are ready for final installation a bead of 742 silicone is applied to each foam block and all along the top row of rivets. The bottom is not sealed for and moisture that may get in and pressure changes. I agree the cuff adds 2 sq. ft. of wing area and changes the profile of the leading edge.
Compared to the Crosswinds cuff this design has more of a constant radius across the full cuff. As noted it's similar to the Sportsman's radius and form. Crosswinds rolls the LE radius in a brake, but the lower and upper portions out to the cuff edges is not rolled (mine wasn't on two aircraft) and is relatively flat. That cuff forms to whatever shape the foam underlayment creates. This cuff continues the formed radius to the edges. It adds wing area, and likely smooths the boundary layer flow across the LE more than the stock wing. Fun stuff. Not sure about the stall fence need.
Gary
The wing fence at the flap aileron junction is there just as a test and can be removed easily. The small fences at the ends of the cuffs or whatever they might be called we’re not intended to do anything except give the cuffs a more finished look. I doubt that they do anything except make me think they look good.
I always wanted to remove one Crosswinds fence and go fly and should have. On my PA-12-180 I had the fences and cuff removed. The stall speed didn't change, the stall was more benign at the break, and I gained some cruise speed. Piper wing. I had one on a Citabria and I liked the mod. Bellanca wing. This new mod has promise if it approaches the Sportsman's benefits.
Gary
do any testing with no flaps or no flaps down?
Here's a screen grab of various LE designs. The Badlands STOL probably falls within these shapes, and may be close to the Sportsman's design.
Gary
Dave Calkins thanked for this post
Not yet because it all of a sudden became winter here and right now I have a big drift in front of my hangar.
One fence slows the plane down. Two fences or no fences, no change.
NX1PA
Question please: Was the cuff tested without the VG's? If so, what did the VG's improve? Also, what tail enhancement was done? Like a fuselage strake like CC's VG's uses or under stabilizer VG's?
Gary
There’s always a story behind the story.
I’m the guy who put the c-150 wings on a cub-esque fuselage.
it started life with bone stock Cessna wings, and later, I put on a set of wings with the Horton stol.
my personal opinion was that the Horton added a lot of safety, but only slight performance gains.
the second plane with the c-150 wings started life with the sportsman cuff, and it did everything better than the Horton; better roll rate, takeoff, slow flight, landing. It just flew better, in spite of being heavier.
In my opinion, the Horton stol profile has a lot of similarities to the leading edge of the cub wing.
the Badlands cuff makes the leading edge nearly identical to the sportsman.
my cub already had the vgs on it so (like the original Robertson ones) that we tested and accepted years ago on all of our cubs. I also have the vgs mounted under the HS.
If you're talking about N505WC, which Doug Jackson did a video about,
the performance of that airplane in the video is super impressive.
I've watched the video several different times, and always enjoy it.
Super Cub on Steroids! - YouTube
Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
Yeah but is it MORE beneficial when the added sq ins is on the leading edge? Don't know.....maybe?
That is the earlier version. Doug now owns this one. I fly with both airplanes regularly. Great performers.
Steve Pierce
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
Will Rogers
Video of both airplanes.
Steve Pierce
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
Will Rogers
For those of you interested in the technical side of it, perhaps this gives you an idea.
chord line is lowered 3/4” and overall chord is 1” more.
I am guessing if anyone is nearing recover time and has normal leading edge issues, or building wings for a project, these new cuffed leading edges would be a very nice option! These early pilot reports sound very promising for sure! Like all of the stuff these folks build, the pricing is very attractive! I am thinking of ordering the kit to have as I have some leading edge issues. It probably should be noted that if you have heard anyone claiming " so and so flew a Cruiser/Cub with a C.Center cuff; and it didn't make any difference". Beware of that statement; ALOT of those airplanes have very high empty weights 1300lb plus! And many had extended squared off wings......... A totally different animal than installing a "Sportsman Style" cuff onto a lite Cub. No sense comparing apples to Oranges!
I am guessing these new cuffs could be installed on ALOT of Cubs in the near future! I know one fella for sure that will be trying them on a 1040 lb Cub��
The only guys I’ve known with Crosswinds cuffs on Cubs took them off. That mod has zero traction among Cub guys I know.
That is absolutely true Steward. My point exactly, not to compare those to what Cliff is up to with his cuff. As you
mentioned the " Sportsman Cuff" is the last word on a Cessna wing, and this one may very well soon have a similar following amongst the Cub fraternity???
Looks like a simple, straight forward , reasonabley priced mod that works!
E
Curious, what reason? I have Crosswinds cuff and Micro VG's on my 12 and the low speed handling is considerably improved from before.
Clint recently revised his cuff going forward further with great results according to those who have flown it.
I wonder why VG's are added to a cuff? Shouldn't the cuff be sufficiently effective? The only reason I can come up with is the VG's lower the pressure peak right behind the leading edge at high AOA...which achieves a less abrupt loss of lift as the wing fonally stalls. Anyone fly Crosswinds' setup before and after VG's were installed?
This new cuff design is more rounded in form than the Crosswinds LE.
Gary
I did both at once, and wish I hadn't because I can't tell what contribution each makes. My VGs are way forward, per Jerry Burr's test results.
Gordon
N4328M KTDO
I have a Crosswinds cuff on my -12 and plan to install micro VGs in the coming months. I don't have experience flying this -12 without the cuff as it was installed before purchase so all I'll have are flight characteristics from cuff, to cuff with VGs.
Last edited by AZinAK; 04-02-2023 at 11:41 PM.
Jerry Burr's VG tests> https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...l=1#post461637
Maybe try to duplicate this before and after on a cuff?
Gary
Gary here is cuff with VG's installed on a friend's plane.
Same inside and outboard fences etc.
E
Some of your friends can't keep a secret.
I’m really curious about the statement-great results of those who have flown it. It’s in the early stages and I haven’t tested it as I did with the original as it’s still winter with lots of snow and I’m at Spruce Creek Florida right now. It might be great but right now we just don’t know
I guess I misheard what Doug was telling me.
Thanks Steve, my yellow cub is still in Abilene which I used for the original cuff testing. I’m guessing it will be the A model cuff and if the extended model does positive or better I’ll call it the B model. Stay tuned and hopefully winter will finally loosen its grip.
We are warm just dealing with a lot of wind. Anxiously awaiting your test results.
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