Im tired of taxiing around for 10 minutes to try to get my engine warm. Night temps are typically 20’s.
Ive been using a drop light and some moving blanket. Engine might be 50f. I would like to see 75 - 100F or more.
Plane is hangared.
I ordered a mac cowling cover. That should help.
What do i need to get 100F? Sump heater? EZ Heat looks like $150. That the way to go? I dont think i need a $700 system but let me know.
My personal philosophy: I spent a lot of money to buy my airplane and more to keep it running properly. A few more dollars to help the engine reach TBO is money well-spent, and will also increase the re-sale value.
I'm very happy with my Reiff system.
EZ will work…sorta, better than what you have. It will heat the oil but wont do much for the rest of the engine. I really like the Reiff unit, worth every penny.
Last edited by G44; 01-31-2023 at 01:18 AM.
180Marty liked this post
I could buy the reiff- but I kind of want another engine so seems like a waste. $700+ install. How much is install?
switcheon and a real preheater so you can kick it on a couple hours before you go flying?
You can switch it to the new engine, not a waste at all. You can also install it yourself, its easy to do.Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook
Minor alteration? I don't know - I'm Experimental (or the Canadian version thereof).
Some of the Reiff parts can be moved to another engine, but not the sump heater or (if you have one) the oil-cooler heater. Those are attached with JB Weld or equivalent and are pretty much permanent.
Reiff’s Hot Strips can be removed and reinstalled. My Cub’s Reiff is on its second engine. Not a big deal.
NunavutPA-12 thanked for this post
I have an EZ heat and it heats my whole engine very well. The trick is to have a cowl cover that is absolutely buttoned up tight. Very little air should be allowed to be exchanged.
and for the price….why not give it a try. If your experience differs from mine, you are out almost nothing in terms of aviation dollars. A good fitting cowl cover is needed either way.
Jeff
EZ Heat glues to the oil pan. Buy an insulated engine cover, plug in the night before, good to go in the AM, full engine heated.
Or, buy one of these: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/KAT3...&gclsrc=aw.ds& From your local NAPA Airplane parts store. Again, put a cover on the engine, good to go in an hour or so.
Both these are thermostatically controlled, which I consider to be absolutely essential. Either can be moved to the next engine. EZ Heat probably should be signed off, since it's "installed". Fan forced interior heater, not at all.
MTV
"I would like to see 75 - 100F or more." Why?? Are you referring to oil temp? Oil temp does not really accurately reflect the temp of the metal in the engine be it case/cylinders/pistons/crankshaft/ect. The oil will lubricate just as well at 50 degrees as it will at 100 degrees as long as it gets to where it has to go and a lot of that has to do with pressure. Use a multi weight and don't overthink it. Lots of instructors are paid by hobbs meter time so sitting to let the oil temp up is a easy way to make money.
DENNY
My standard Reiff system has my cylinders and engine oil at 100 degrees overnight with cowl plugs and a shipping blanket with OAT in the low 20s. The cylinder heaters are like installing a large hose clamp around the cylinder base.
EZ heat with a good cowling cover.
"Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"
I flew a bit over 2.5 hrs in what was a new record low for me, 5 below (yeah, not that cold, but cold enough for the ski area above my place to not open, for two days straight now), I've been playing around with leaving a bit of a gap at the prop hub with my engine cozy, rather than stuffed up tight. I imagine the flowing warm air doing more good maybe than it just stagnating, just a small gap. I'm liking the little 200 watt space heater, positioned right under the cowl, I started using this winter, auto on at 3 AM, combined with my 100 watt oil tank heater (Rotax) and 200 watt case heater pads plugged in just an hour before, ( these are not thermostatically controlled so I am judicious in their use, especially the oil tank one) let me start and pretty much take right off. Hangar was at 38 degrees, my taxi distance was about 2' before going down the ramp on my sloped runway
so that doesn't help much.
Cardiff, you ask good questions. Here’s a cold weather article by the authority on the topic. https://www.lycoming.com/content/operating-cold-weather
Two items to pay close attention to are
1-mixture to start a cold engine. Cold temps require more fuel. That means more prime.
2-water freezes. You can’t drain ice from fuel sumps. If your sump drains are stiff they’re likely fouled with ice. In that case, isopropyl alcohol is your friend. One 12oz bottle per 10 gallons of fuel is approved.
Happy flying!
Great read.
Found below interesting:
After start, do not idle engine below 1000 RPM. It’s not good practice to idle engines below 1000 RPM at any time. This is particularly true during cold weather to prevent lead fouling of spark plugs. (Exception – Piper Pressurized Navajo)
Also interesting that only need to preheat below 10f or 20f depending on engine.
My opinion? Warming the oil provides a faster spin from the starter. Warming the cylinders provides faster firing. Personally I want both if I’m taking the time to preheat. Better starting, faster oil pressure, less stress on the cylinders. Your temps may not warrant worrying too much about it. When temps are single digit and lower it definitely matters. The advice here is all over the place and none is wrong, but not all will apply to your conditions.
"Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
Test those car interior heaters before using. Some have metal circulation fans, others plastic. The ones with plastic can deform when hot and stick. Hopefully their thermostat will cut the power in time.
Gary
I sure wouldn’t start a cold soaked engine at 10 degrees, and even 20 it would have to ugly consequences otherwise.
My policy is below 30, I preheat, if at all possible. If you don’t have access to electricity, preheating can be a PITA. If you have electricity, buy an EZ Heat and an insulated engine cover, and quit worrying about it.
MTV
The best little air heater I’ve used is a Zero Start Little Buddy. All metal, tough, and no tip switch. For a silicone pad heater any 50-75 watt heater will work fine. No thermostat required. You can’t overheat a 275# engine with that wattage.
Part of the benefit of a system like Reiff is getting a full, even preheat quickly. I use the Turbo XP bands and Hot Strips on the Cub. Turbo XP bands and a cheapo silicone pad (no thermostat) on the 180. Both work very well. If memory serves when I tested my old -12 in 18°F with an XP system, the CHT and oil temps were at 90° after three hours. I could have started it safely after an hour or a little over. That’s pretty handy.
Katz tech says the 37100 heater thermostat shuts off at 180F. Kinda high for me to leave on all the time
Glenn
"Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
Instead of talking about what temps to use preheat, we should talk about what temp is required to start the engine. Lycoming says 10°. Most prefer to preheat at that temp to ease the starting process. Sometimes there’s no time, or the OAT is way below that and the window of opportunity is too short to get engine temps above 10°. What do you do? I start the engine. The manufacturer says it’s okay. Maybe not ideal, but adequate.
I was told i should shoot for 100F oil temp prior to full power takeoff. Going from 50 in winter i almost never get there. Maybe 80.
Manual says as long as engine doesnt stutter- but my mechanic says 100.
I notice my engine has open cowl holes on bottom. Wonder if that is part of problem in winter.
There is no oil temp low limit for takeoff with Lycomings. Continental requires 70°. I use that for my Cub. I use 275° CHT as my minimum before applying power. Arbitrary numbers (like preheating below 30°) but they work for me. If you listen to your engine and watch the oil pressure intrument’s time to register pressure you can make limits for your engine for reasons that make sense to you.
Ask the mechanic WHY???? I spent 20 year assisting in Orthopedic surgery with over 35 different surgeons, pretty much all did the same procedure. Total joint replacement/ACL reconstruction/fracture treatment with plates and screws. Everyone seemed to do it different. I would always ask why they did it the way they did and 90 % of the time the answer was "That was how we did it in training" Not a bad answer because well it worked but no real fact or data to back up the choice. We all fall into trap of just taking something for fact when we have not really looked into it. The Cessna pilots tend to sit at the end of the runway waiting for temps to come up. I suspect your mechanic was trained by mechanics that did a lot of Continental work and just repeated what they said. There is a reason to worry about full power application with cold oil but it has to do with pressure.
DENNY
You may have a hard time getting to 100 oil temp on a cool day.....or at least a very long ground wait. Ground runs are NOT very good for airplanes. Pressure cowlings were designed to properly cool engines in FLIGHT, not on the ground. And, yes, your propeller does force some air through that cowl, but not much.
Cylinders have combustion going on internally....they warm up pretty fast. Oil, not so much, so run multi viscosity oil....that's what multi viscosity is for, after all. The old argument that we should run 50 weight oil in summer and 30 weight in winter has to do with STARTING the engine. Warm that 50 weight up and it'll circulate about as well as 30 at operating temps. But, if you're going to start at + 30 with no preheat, you really should be running the 30 weight, or better yet a good multi viscosity oil.
So, start your engine, taxi out to the run up area, do your runup, and, more than likely, that Lycoming is ready to go flying. As others have noted, block off part or all your oil cooler to ensure warm oil temps, once you're flying.
MTV
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