G3X Touch databases

I'm normally quite happy to fly my G3X Touch system with expired charts and databases as I maintain current charts and databases on portable devices. I recently blew some of my retirement savings on a one year subscription and have a few questions for those who update regularly:

1. Does the GDU 4xx have provision for storing both the current cycle and the next cycle?
2. If the answer to 1) is yes then does the GDU automatically sequence to the next cycle the first time it is powered after the transition date?
3. If the answer to 1) is no then when will the GDU read the next cycle from the SD card?

Questions are based on this experience -

I loaded new databases to an SD card as soon as the next cycle became available at flyGarmin. I inserted this card in my GDU 465 but the system did not acknowledge that there were new databases available. I loaded the new cycle to a second SD card but have not yet attempted to boot with that card.

I had no problem loading new databases when the installed databases had expired. I just want to understand how to manage/load databases for the next cycle. I could not find these details in the user guide and hope to understand how this works before the current cycle expires.

Thanks

You’re prompted to choose between current cycle and next cycle on the database manager page. Once selected and the files downloaded and that SD card inserted into the G3X it updates to what’s on the card. If you want to maintain a safety backup you can use two cards to maintain current version and next cycle separately. The G3X should load whichever card you choose. I think that’ll work but I’ve always installed next cycle and never looked back.

stewartb said:

You’re prompted to choose between current cycle and next cycle on the database manager page. Once selected and the files downloaded and that SD card inserted into the G3X it updates to what’s on the card.

Click to expand...

That didn't work for me so I assume there was something wrong with the data on that SD card. I'll try again with the other SD card next time I'm at the hangar.

Thanks.

I’ve never had luck with SD cards >16gb capacity. Garmin recommends 8gb. That said the database manager usually fails to load the bigger cards. I’ve never had a loaded card rejected by the G3X. FWIW, the software update allows you to insert the SD card at any time. Database updates require the card to be inserted prior to powering the G3X on. It won’t see the card otherwise.

When you do load an SD card with updated files, the G3X will present this screen, so you have another chance to disregard parts of the update. I never have, but it’s there.

stewartb said:

I’ve never had luck with SD cards >16gb capacity. Garmin recommends 8gb. That said the database manager usually fails to load the bigger cards. I’ve never had a loaded card rejected by the G3X.

Click to expand...

I'm using 8 GB SanDisk cards but they are the same cards that are in use for data logging, screen captures, and my checklists. Having the other files and directories on the SD card didn't stop earlier database loads but maybe I should change to reserving an SD card just for database loading.

stewartb said:

FWIW, the software update allows you to insert the SD card at any time. Database updates require the card to be inserted prior to powering the G3X on. It won’t see the card otherwise.

Click to expand...

Seems like an inconsistent design. All other SD card functionality seems to work if card is inserted after power up. However, pretty sure that I tried having the card inserted before power up and also inserting after power up.

Should be easy to resolve now that I know GDU stores only one cycle and it replaces current cycle with next.

stewartb said:

When you do load an SD card with updated files, the G3X will present this screen, so you have another chance to disregard parts of the update.

Click to expand...

First time i saw that screen I didn't know how to bypass it without changing any databases. I ended up accidentally replacing a current database with an expired one. I had the current database on another SD card so was able to recover.

I later learned that the database update screen can be bypassed by touching the engine display.

I'm sure this will all become routine but it isn't yet.

frequent_flyer said:

I'm normally quite happy to fly my G3X Touch system with expired charts and databases as I maintain current charts and databases on portable devices. I recently blew some of my retirement savings on a one year subscription and have a few questions for those who update regularly:

1. Does the GDU 4xx have provision for storing both the current cycle and the next cycle?
2. If the answer to 1) is yes then does the GDU automatically sequence to the next cycle the first time it is powered after the transition date?
3. If the answer to 1) is no then when will the GDU read the next cycle from the SD card?

Questions are based on this experience -

I loaded new databases to an SD card as soon as the next cycle became available at flyGarmin. I inserted this card in my GDU 465 but the system did not acknowledge that there were new databases available. I loaded the new cycle to a second SD card but have not yet attempted to boot with that card.

I had no problem loading new databases when the installed databases had expired. I just want to understand how to manage/load databases for the next cycle. I could not find these details in the user guide and hope to understand how this works before the current cycle expires.

Thanks

Click to expand...

You can load the SD card when the updates become available prior to the next cycle starting. Insert into the G3X and power on, it will prompt you to install. It WILL auto sequence on the date required.

If you're updating your GNC, the routine is a little different, the G3X is much more intuitive, or it should be that is. The GNC you'll have to touch databases when loading them ahead of expiration of current cycle and preload them, it will sequence them at the proper date.

So to both - yes they will auto sequence preloaded to active automatically. The way you load them varies on the two devices.

hawgdrvr said:

You can load the SD card when the updates become available prior to the next cycle starting. Insert into the G3X and power on, it will prompt you to install. It WILL auto sequence on the date required.

Click to expand...

So you are saying that the GDU can be loaded with both the current chart cycle and the next chart cycle. That is how I would have hoped it worked based on air transport Flight Management System experience but that didn't seem to be how Stewartb described it.

Hopefully the card will be recognized at my next attempt and I be be able to see first hand which cycle is being used.

I've had good success calling Garmin Aviation Support while sitting in the cockpit. They've patiently walked me through any procedures step by step. They're pretty good at figuring out the problem, even when I slip into speaking Southernese.

Daryl

frequent_flyer said:

So you are saying that the GDU can be loaded with both the current chart cycle and the next chart cycle. That is how I would have hoped it worked based on air transport Flight Management System experience but that didn't seem to be how Stewartb described it.

Hopefully the card will be recognized at my next attempt and I be be able to see first hand which cycle is being used.

Click to expand...

Did you work for Honeywell?

My observation as a G3X user. If I haven’t flown for a while my G3X flashes a yellow message notification. If I tap on that I get a warning about databases being out of date. When I download the updates I always select the next cycle when available and load that into the G3X. Once installed there is no message, so it must be operating on the future chart version, not the current one that was never loaded. I’ve never thought anything of it. It just works.

mam90 said:

Did you work for Honeywell?

Click to expand...

I did, but why do you ask?

frequent_flyer said:

I did, but why do you ask?

Click to expand...

Just curious based on some of your previous posts and then this one.. I have a lot of Honeywell FMS time and when you mentioned 2 databases being loaded and auto switching it just brought back memories of the Nav Ident page…. And you’re in Arizona….

mam90 said:

Just curious based on some of your previous posts and then this one.. I have a lot of Honeywell FMS time and when you mentioned 2 databases being loaded and auto switching it just brought back memories of the Nav Ident page…. And you’re in Arizona….

Click to expand...

The sad part about a long career in avionics systems development is that too many of the aircraft types I worked on are now retired like me. it made me feel really old when UK retired the Panavia Tornado.

frequent_flyer said:

So you are saying that the GDU can be loaded with both the current chart cycle and the next chart cycle. That is how I would have hoped it worked based on air transport Flight Management System experience but that didn't seem to be how Stewartb described it.

Hopefully the card will be recognized at my next attempt and I be be able to see first hand which cycle is being used.

Click to expand...

Yes, think about it. Do they really want to set you up to have an opportunity that your data is expired and it can't switch to the next cycle automatically?

So once the garmin aviation website offers you updates you can load them to your card and install into the unit. The G3X handles this very well, the GNC is a bit awkward.

From the user manual for the exp G3X Touch. The approved model may behave differently.

FLITECHARTS CYCLE NUMBER AND EXPIRATION DATE
FliteCharts data is revised every 28 days. FliteCharts do not expire and will remain viewable after the expiration date. The Power-up Page indicates any of four different possible criteria for chart availability. These indications are whether the databases are not configured, not available, current or out of date.

Click to expand...

The second SD card that I loaded with the "next" cycle database was accepted today by my G3X Touch system. Here is what I learned:

1. The database card can be inserted after boot is complete. It will still be read and the GDU will display the database update screen. It may take up to about 30 seconds before the update screen is displayed.

2. There is no indication that the GDU 465 stores the current cycle and the just loaded next cycle. All the indications are that the current cycle is replaced by next cycle before the expiration of the current cycle.

Here are some supporting crops of screeen shots:

Database configuration before insertion of the update SD card; Database update screen; Database configuration after updates accepted:

To add to the potential for G3X Touch database update confusion -

Databases are available for download from flyGarmin before their effective date. However, the availablity lead time varies for different databases. It can be as much as 7 days for Airport Directory, Navigation Data, and Frequency Data and a little as 1 day for IFR/VFR charts.

Downloading new databases more than 1 day before expiration appears to only give a partial set and to require multiple download/update efforts to get all databases updated to the next cycle.

Database update schedule and availability lead times are shown here - https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/devices/update-schedule

Based on this I'm giving up any attempt at early update and will download from flyGarmin no sooner than 1 day before expiration of the current 28 day cycle.

For G3X Touch users, software v9.22 is current as of a few days ago.

I don't know if this affects G3X users, but I just installed a GI275 purchased over the counter through Spruce as a MFD. And I cannot install the databases because Garmin recently started digitally signing the database files - so the latest software update is mandatory in order to be able to install the latest databases. Since these have to be done by a Garmin dealer, you have to schedule and pay for that on your own. Thanks, Garmin!

Sounds like your issue is with Spruce. That Garmin closely controls operating software for STC avionics isn’t surprising.

No spruce is just the distributor. Garmin ships with an older version of software on their devices and then made a change to their databases that forced a software update, which HAS to be done at a Garmin dealer. I don't see how this has anything to do with Spruce. Garmin's left hand does not talk to the right.

stewartb said:

Sounds like your issue is with Spruce. That Garmin closely controls operating software for STC avionics isn’t surprising.

Click to expand...

Edit : See post 26.

pb


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

Buying outdated/unmoded/previous software equipment has always been an issue. We always checked status when ordering in my work life..

soyAnarchisto said:

...I just installed a GI275 purchased over the counter through Spruce as a MFD. And I cannot install the databases because Garmin recently started digitally signing the database files - so the latest software update is mandatory in order to be able to install the latest databases...

Click to expand...

So here's some perhaps better information for you. Take a look at this link :
https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=YjsBu2a2V19LZVYBi0VOy6

With each OTC sale, you will receive in the box, a product registration and STC permission card. When you complete this registration and it is validated by Garmin, you will receive the required STC Approval letter, and gain access to view authorized content at the support center, such as installation manuals, software, service installation bulletins and service communiques...

If you have misplaced the product registration card, reach out to Spruce on obtaining another. They may redirect you to Garmin, but as the seller that would be the first step.

Let me know if this doesn't solve your issue.
Peter

That does not solve the issue. I registered my warranty purchase, and I got my STC permission card. I have access to the authorized content, which really is just the installation guide for _just_ the 275. It does not authorize you to update the software on the unit - that must be done by a dealer. Which means that every OTC is useless because you can install it, but to even install ANY databases at this point requires you to go to the dealer and pay them to update the software on the unit they send you.

I'm already 5 steps beyond that.

Farmboy said:

So here's some perhaps better information for you. Take a look at this link :
https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=YjsBu2a2V19LZVYBi0VOy6

With each OTC sale, you will receive in the box, a product registration and STC permission card. When you complete this registration and it is validated by Garmin, you will receive the required STC Approval letter, and gain access to view authorized content at the support center, such as installation manuals, software, service installation bulletins and service communiques...

If you have misplaced the product registration card, reach out to Spruce on obtaining another. They may redirect you to Garmin, but as the seller that would be the first step.

Let me know if this doesn't solve your issue.
Peter

Click to expand...

FWIW, while experimental G3X software is free, the database library is not. I pay an annual subscription fee to maintain access keep to charts, terrain, SafeTaxi, etc current. The same applies to Garmin Pilot, and it requires a separate subscription. Both are worth every penny.

Wait, so Garmin lets the experimental G3X owners update their own software? Their web site says their policy is all the software updates have to be done at a dealer. The software itself is free, but you must schedule and pay a dealer to install it, I thought. My next plane is going to be experimental for sure.

I know the database updates requires subscription. I don't agree their charts and taxi stuff is worth a penny - because it's regurgitated FAA data, and you still have to pay on top of that for the _real_ charts from Jeppeson. Another 200 or more per year on top of the Garmin charts for just lower 48 charts. So you have to pay twice for the charts, 3 times if you count foreflight. And garmin pilot is absolute garbage compared to foreflight. But that's a religious debate. ;-)

I have a garmin IFR gps - I'm just trying to get it to drive the CDI needles correctly on the 275. Appointment is on Monday. All my local Garmin dealers are just horrible to deal with - so I'm flying 500 miles away to go to one that will return my phone calls and help me. And it's IFR all around me! ;-)

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Just to help anyone else that runs into this, as I just communicated with soyAnarchisto and got things straightened out.

Garmin allows certain products to be sold over-the-counter (OTC) and others must be installed by a Garmin dealer. The OTC items range from experimental -anyone can install- to basic versions of certified units -that any A&P can sign off-. Because of this there is a bold statement on the information page stating that software updates must be done by a dealer. Largely this is true, the exception being on the basic OTC certified and experimental units.

So, If the owner is logged in and the unit has been registered they have access to the software, under the "Authorized Content" tab.
If the owner does not have access to the authorized content they can always reach out to the aviation.support@garmin.com with their account details and they can look into it.
I have seen some cases where when they register the unit they put an install date in the future and this will prevent them from seeing the authorized content.

Now, also because garmin support techs are human, and they have turnover like most companies, you can sadly get incorrect answers from a support personnel that perhaps only deals with non-OTC items, or they may assume that all versions of a certain product require the same level of support -
- the GI275 is a good example.

You can buy a GI275 Base, and now a GI275 EIS configuration OTC, and have your local A&P sign off the install.
But, you can't buy a GI275 ADAHRS configuration, or GI2785 ADAHRS+AP configuration, or any Part 27 GI275's of course as OTC, or update software, configs, or likewise without taking it to a dealer.

So in the case of a 275, there are more "dealer-only" versions than OTC versions.

None of this helps the customer with getting the correct answer, but by and large their tech support does pretty good, at least for me.

So long story short - on a Base or EIS 275, the end user has access to system software to update it in addition to the standard databases.
Peter