525 ponies Murphy Moose

[scout88305]

Engine sounds really good, sure to wake the neighbors backing up in the morning. Seems to stay on the water a long time.

[NunavutPA-12]

Geez! My 160 hp PA-12 gets off the water faster than that!

[aeroaddict]

I really like the beta shot. Nothing like backing out of your parking place.

[peterdillon]

Geez! My 160 hp PA-12 gets off the water faster than that!

Kind of a cool machine but yes I would agree that for 525hp its not exactly a rocket ship. With that kind of power to weight ratio it should be off in way less than 10 seconds for sure. Best guess is that without some kind of gear reduction there is no way to harness very much of the power. Take a P&W 600 hp piston Otter running less than 1/2 that RPM and they still went to a geared engine to gain propeller efficiencies of longer wider blades and low tip speeds. If you look at turboprop propeller RPM's tells the same story.

[frequent_flyer]

Kind of a cool machine but yes I would agree that for 525hp its not exactly a rocket ship. With that kind of power to weight ratio it should be off in way less than 10 seconds for sure. Best guess is that without some kind of gear reduction there is no way to harness very much of the power. Take a P&W 600 hp piston Otter running less than 1/2 that RPM and they still went to a geared engine to gain propeller efficiencies of longer wider blades and low tip speeds. If you look at turboprop propeller RPM's tells the same story.

http://www.moosemods.com/moose-ls3-p...ance-mods.html

Reduction drive ratio is 2.11:1 according to that article.

[peterdillon]

Never noticed that reduction ratio mentioned. Wonder why its so long on the water then?

[mvivion]

Looks to me that it’s Seriously underfloated for one thing. Wonder what floats those are? They look awfully small in depth. It also looks nose heavy in taxi…..watch early in taxi, those bows are under water. That may be partially because it appears the cabin is empty.

But, judging from that takeoff run, I’d hate to see a “gross weight” takeoff run. My guess is none of those lakes are big enough.

MTV

[BC12D-4-85]

The Wip 4K's float rigging might need adjustment. Same wing span and area as my Taylorcraft. Airfoil (4415) similar to the Beaver (4416), but without the flap-aileron lift.

Gary

[frequent_flyer]

Looks to me that it’s Seriously underfloated for one thing. Wonder what floats those are? They look awfully small in depth. It also looks nose heavy in taxi…..watch early in taxi, those bows are under water. That may be partially because it appears the cabin is empty.

Video says floats are Wipline 4000.

[BC12D-4-85]

Another one on floats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSL70csNeoc&t=35s

Gary

[Steve's Aircraft (Brian)]

Another one on floats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSL70csNeoc&t=35s

Gary

I think this one is now owned by a customer of mine. Can’t see what the N number is but it’s paint job is identical. It’s back on wheels. Has a modified Lycoming 0-540 and when I first started working on it the carburetor control was so far off it was only getting about 3/4 full throttle. I had a custom McFarlane vernier assist cable made up and got the thing working properly.

Brian

[BC12D-4-85]

With the base 182 sq' wing loading it's never going to beat a Beaver (250 sq'). Still there's potential for a nice airplane if flown within limits. Loaded at the published 3,500-4,000# GW I'd be considering something else.

Edit: The wing loading at GW is similar (M 19.2 @ 3500# vs B 20.4 @5100#). The airfoil is close to the same. The Beaver has the better trailing edge lift enhancement.

Gary

[mvivion]

I worked a C-206F on Wip straight 4000 floats, GW was 3800 pounds on those floats with the IO 550 engine. That airplane rode much higher in the water loaded to 3800 than the plane in this video is at empty. The wheel gear adds weight, but not a cabin full.

And that 206 would have been off the water, loaded, in half that distance or less.

It’s be interesting to know who designed the float rigging…….

But, that’s not going to be a very useful plane, performing like that….empty.

MTV

[TurboBeaver]

I think MTV, may have just hit the nail on the head, the airplane is waaaay to far ahead on the floats, hence the " submarineing" I would guess it doesn't have the correct AOI between floats and the wing as well. And the thrust isn't nearly: What you would expect from a 525hp engine. Some things are grossly amiss here? Sure hope he gets it straightened out. That should about a 12/15 sec airplane, lightly loaded, in the published conditions of 80 degrees, high humidity.......( In no way trying to 'be little' his nice Moose)

[BC12D-4-85]

Here's one version of the POH in case the pilot wants to run a W&B> https://www.pattersonaerosales.com/P...g540%20POH.pdf

Gary

[BC12D-4-85]

A couple more of an AK Moose on floats with a radial. Get Pete to survey the one above's installation. The wing looks like it's got a LE cuff as well, or different airfoil entirely. Crosswinds has a cuff for Champs that has a similar (4412 vs 4415) airfoil. I had one for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTQhyVWeMvM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuFyYQng-_4

Gary

[mvivion]

I edited to correct my earlier post to include the gross weight of the 206 on Wip 4000 floats, with an IO 550, producing 300 hp: 3800 pounds.

Of course, an amateur builder can set GW and CG for their A/C, but look at the nose of those floats plowing and going under. Those floats have a LOT of buoyancy forward.

I hope the guy gets it figured out, but I’d pass on a ride, myself.

MTV

[skywagon8a]

Get Pete to survey the one above's installation.
Gary

Step too far aft and the loaded CG too far forward. If the those floats were installed with the step in the correct location there wouldn't be enough floatation aft to be able to carry a load in the airplane. Look at how little floatation there is at the tails.

[WWhunter]

Definitely seems to love the water and wants to stay there! Also think something is definitely not done correctly, or the pilot was 'milking' it on it's maiden flight. A lot of power seems too be wasted somewhere.

There's a guy in Idaho installing a PT-6 on a moose. That'll be a beast!!

[BC12D-4-85]

Floats have a hull speed that demands even more power to overcome increasing drag. Discussed here

The builder also mentions being "always on the rudder(s)" Other Moose have a ventral fin. It's a work in progress.

Gary

[mvivion]

Floats have a hull speed that demands even more power to overcome increasing drag. Discussed here

The builder also mentions being "always on the rudder(s)" Other Moose have a ventral fin. It's a work in progress.

Gary

Those floats are kind of water lovers, frankly. LOTS of bottom area to reach out and shake hands with the water.

I flew a Moose with a Vedenyev engine on PeeKay 3500 amphibious floats. I can't recall if it had a ventral fin or not, but it did NOT have enough rudder, in my opinion. Nice flying plane otherwise, but I think this gent is on the right track to extend the rudder.

MTV

[peterdillon]

I always worry about some innocent guy coming along that has saved up for years for his ultimate dream machine and is convinced by internet hype he is buying the very latest in technology. As long as the big boys with deep pockets that are undaunted by the risks and have it in a place where they can hop from puddle to puddle while they spend years tweaking everything and figuring it all out it maybe okay. But what quite often happens is the builder or next owner realizes it "has major issues" and it gets sold to someone that has no idea what they are getting into and ends up in disaster. On the ferry flight home with your new toy can you imagine taxiing in even just a 20 knot wind on a decent size lake.

[SchlenkAir]

Engine sounds really good, sure to wake the neighbors backing up in the morning. Seems to stay on the water a long time.

Thanks for watching and the comments. I know Chad is making some adjustments and we will do a follow up video this summer to address as many of the questions as we can. Please consider subscribing you might like another project we are working on. Have a good one SchlenkAir