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G3X Touch firmware 9.12

frequent_flyer

frequent_flyer

Registered User
Arizona, USA
Garmin G3X Touch experimental firmware version 9.12 is now available and seems to include several useful updates. The one I'm most interested in is the improvement to audio traffic alerting. Based on my discussion with Garmin I'm expecting this to change from the simple "traffic!" alert to a more useful direction, altitude, and distance specific alert e.g.

"Traffic! Two O'clock low, two miles".

https://www8.garmin.com/support/down...=7129#Instruct
 
If you have a G5 integrated with your G3X system be aware of the following:

The 9.12 G3X firmware updates any connected GTR 200 radio and any connected G5 as well as several G3X Touch system LRU. Normally a G5 with battery backup will start a count-down when external power is lost. It will shutdown if there is no pilot action before the count-down ends.

After being updated by the G3X 9.12 firmware the G5 does not run this count-down when master external power is removed. The G5 remains powered displaying an "External power lost" message. It would be very easy to walk away from the aircraft leaving the G5 powered until it completely discharged the backup battery.

The next time the G5 is powered and then power is lost it does run the count-down and turn off as expected.
 
Does your G3X startup page show software v9.12? Mine says 9.10, and I just did it last week. And now I see a new update, v9.13 on the Garmin site.
 
stewartb said:
Does your G3X startup page show software v9.12? Mine says 9.10, and I just did it last week. And now I see a new update, v9.13 on the Garmin site.
Click to expand...

I believe 9.12 was shown but I'm not at the hangar and I don't have a screen capture.

Looks like they rushed out 9.12 with inadequate testing! Very surprising that they would have a firmware update so soon after 9.12 was released.

Oh well, another excuse to go visit the airplane. Not that I needed one.
 
FYI, 9.12 was pulled and updated to 9.13 due to bugs in 9.12.
G5 software went to 8.17
 
Threads like this are much appreciated. Notification of new software, which Garmin doesn’t provide, and then an explanation of an odd disconnect on the version. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It makes the community better.

PS- Maybe just me, but like with chart updates I couldn’t get a readable SD card from my Mac. Installed Parallels and Windows 11 and fixed it. FTR, my Mac has an M1 chip so bootcamp isn’t supported. Parallels works great.
 
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I’ve heard good results (vans forums) using the disk utility to erase and then format at a fat ms-dos, but since we use PC’s at work I just plug it in there.
Garmin will simply tell people it must be loaded from a PC.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
I have a windows machine at work but a Mac at home. I’m impatient with tech stuff. I’ve had Parallels for a long time on previous Macs. This isn’t new for me. When the dust settles, I prefer Mac. Now I can update my G3X from home.
 
frequent_flyer said:
If you have a G5 integrated with your G3X system be aware of the following:

The 9.12 G3X firmware updates any connected GTR 200 radio and any connected G5 as well as several G3X Touch system LRU. Normally a G5 with battery backup will start a count-down when external power is lost. It will shutdown if there is no pilot action before the count-down ends.

After being updated by the G3X 9.12 firmware the G5 does not run this count-down when master external power is removed. The G5 remains powered displaying an "External power lost" message. It would be very easy to walk away from the aircraft leaving the G5 powered until it completely discharged the backup battery.

The next time the G5 is powered and then power is lost it does run the count-down and turn off as expected.
Click to expand...

I now suspect this anomaly was related to G5 "on ground" logic and availability of GPS ground speed. My G5 is configured to auto power down only on ground. I may not have had a reliable GPS signal as firmware update was done in the hangar.
 
The G3Xpert is a vibrant poster over on the Vans forums. I'm learning that if you want to keep abreast of the situation, you just need to read his posts.

Garmin is now up to 9.14 on the Experimental G3X.
***************************************

Good Afternoon,

We posted GDU 4XX Software v9.14 to the Software Download Center today.

There is a problem with the transponder Position Integrity setting in Software versions 9.10, 9.12 and 9.13. If Position Integrity is set to AUTO, the display will configure the transponder to the equivalent of SIL 0 in error. The behavior of AUTO mode is corrected in v9.14. If unable to update to 9.14 right away, you can manually configure your Position Integrity to 1e-7 in the Transponder Configuration page within the G3X Touch to correctly transmit ADS-B Messages.

Only the non-GPS versions of GTX 345R, GTX 45R, GTX 35R, and GTX 335R are affected. No Panel mount transponders are affected.

Further, only those transponders mentioned above which receive their GPS data via RS-232 are affected (Includes all installations in which GPS is provided by GNS series navigator or GPS 20A).

Any transponder that receives GPS data via HSDB is not affected. GTN series navigators and GPS175/GNC355 can be connected to the transponder by RS-232 or HSDB. So it follows, If connected to the transponder via RS-232, the installation is affected. If connected to the transponder vis HSDB, it is not affected.

Please let us know if you have any questions!

Thanks,

Justin
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
 
Farmboy said:
The G3Xpert is a vibrant poster over on the Vans forums. I'm learning that if you want to keep abreast of the situation, you just need to read his posts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the notice that yet another corrective update has been released. Fortunately I'm not impacted by this one as I have a GTX 345R with internal GPS.

In case anyone is not familiar - G3Xpert is the Garmin experimental support group's email identity. The person behind the address changes as staff come and go. I don't know how many people are in that support group at any one time but I have interacted with several.
 
Thanks for the heads up, Farmboy. Much appreciated.

I can attest to the great tech support provided by G3Xpert staff. Very helpful.

Merry Christmas, and Happy Solstice. Tomorrow the days start getting longer again!
 
Wow, this could be it! Started flying my new FX-3 in Yakima in November, and immediately noticed problems with ADS-B traffic on the GNC 355. Works all the time on the ground, less than half the time in the air. Garmin has been very responsive, but no solution found and I was set to go back to Yakima to have them check the wiring. Hope springs eternal. I'll cross my fingers and give this a try.
 
frequent_flyer said:
I don't have a capture of the boot screen but PFD 9.12 was shown in "system information":
Click to expand...

Well, after a couple more firmware updates, it became obvious that the G3X Touch firmware version was not displayed on the boot screen. It seemed silly to have to boot in configuration mode to find the firmware version so I did a bit of exploring today after engine shutdown.

Turns out the version of all the GDU 4xx firmware components can be inspected without going to configuration mode.

MENU / MENU / TOOLS / DATABASE INFO - Displays the firmware versions and database versions on a scrollable page which has screen capture available if needed.
 
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kshunz said:
Wow, this could be it! Started flying my new FX-3 in Yakima in November, and immediately noticed problems with ADS-B traffic on the GNC 355. Works all the time on the ground, less than half the time in the air. Garmin has been very responsive, but no solution found and I was set to go back to Yakima to have them check the wiring. Hope springs eternal. I'll cross my fingers and give this a try.
Click to expand...

Does your FX-3 use the GTX 345R transponder? Is traffic displayed properly in flight and on ground on the GDU 4xx?

If the answer to both is yes then I'd be looking for a wiring issue on the ethernet connection between GTX 345R and GNC 355. I don't think this recent firmware fix is related.

The difference between flight and ground could be vibration that aggravates a poor connection.

I have not seen a CubCrafters schematic for this interface but the following shows part of the interconnect schematic I created for my FX-3 when I added the GPS 175. The connector on the right is on the GPS 175 and is the same on the GNC 355.
 

Attachments

  • GTX GPS Ethernet.PNG
    GTX GPS Ethernet.PNG
    59.4 KB · Views: 42
frequent_flyer said:
Does your FX-3 use the GTX 345R transponder? Is traffic displayed properly in flight and on ground on the GDU 4xx?

If the answer to both is yes then I'd be looking for a wiring issue on the ethernet connection between GTX 345R and GNC 355. I don't think this recent firmware fix is related.

The difference between flight and ground could be vibration that aggravates a poor connection.

I have not seen a CubCrafters schematic for this interface but the following shows part of the interconnect schematic I created for my FX-3 when I added the GPS 175. The connector on the right is on the GPS 175 and is the same on the GNC 355.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. I got back in town yesterday and was able to update the software, but didn't get in the air to try it out.

I have a GTX 45R transponder. There's never an issue with traffic on the GDU 465, and sometimes the GNC 355 works fine, too. But in the air at least half the time it just shows "No Data".

That's what Garmin suggests, too, that it's likely a poor connection. Here's an odd thing, though. On a recent flight I flew the same ground track for about 10 minutes at both 4500' and 8500'. The GNC 355 traffic worked fine at 4500', started to be intermittent at about 5700', and continuously showed "No Data" at 8500'. I went back and did them both again, with identical results. It's a small sample, but it's made me skeptical that it's just a bad connection.
 
kshunz said:
I have a GTX 45R transponder. There's never an issue with traffic on the GDU 465, and sometimes the GNC 355 works fine, too. But in the air at least half the time it just shows "No Data".
Click to expand...

I'm not familair with the 45R but I did find this discussion - https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?p=1597559

Since your FX-3 is later than mine I assume CC changed from the 345R to the 45R to save a few bucks. I have no reason to think it is inferior. I just don't have any data on it.

For the 345R the GDU transponder interface is by RS-232. So a completely independent hardware port and almost certainly different port handling firmware as compared to the GNC/GPS ethernet interface. That means a GTX hardware fault or a firmware defect could cause abnormal behavior of the data to GNC/GPS without impacting GDU data reception.

Do you know anyone close who also has the GTX 45R who would be willing to swap units for a test flight?

Is your GTX 45R firmware up to date? There was a firmware update May 2022 but I don't see anything that directly addresses the issue you are reporting:

https://atlaske-content.garmin.com/...attachments/22050A_ASDN_Time1655155408482.pdf
 
The 45R in the grand scope is just the experimental version, without need to comply with certification restrictions.

I would suggest seeing if your test of losing it due to altitude is 100% repeatable.

See attached pdf, and look at the configuration guidance. Configurations are much more apt to be messed up than wiring.

5. GTX X45R REMOTE MOUNT TRANSPONDER INSTALLED WITH GPS 175 OR GNC 355 IN SYSTEM
A. ON THE GPS 175 OR GNC 355 ADS-B SOURCE PAGE, SET ADS-B IN SOURCE TO "GTX #1"
B. ON THE PFD1 TRANSPONDER CONFIGURATION PAGE, ENABLE "GTN" ON HSDB DEVICES FIELD
 

Attachments

  • GTXGDUGNC.pdf
    178.6 KB · Views: 44
Farmboy said:
The 45R in the grand scope is just the experimental version, without need to comply with certification restrictions.
Click to expand...

I was curious so I downloaded the 45R installation manual. A significant difference between the 345R and the 45R is that 345R has the option for an internal high integrity GPS/SBAS receiver. That GPS receiver is used for ADS-B Out and is also the primary GPS source for the GDU 4xx in my FX-3.

The expensive CC IFR upgrade adds the GNC 355. With the GNC 355 providing a high integrity GPS source there would no longer be a need for the transponder to have an internal GPS.

Now I'm wondering if current build G3X Touch VFR FX-3 still use the 345R or if they have standardized on the 45R and have to fit an external high integrity GPS unit.
 
Most experimental guys not using an expensive Navigator install the GPS20A for the non-tso WAAS GPS receiver. But of course there are many options to provide a solution to each mission.

I believe the G3X with a GNX375, a GTR20 and a GMC507 will allow me an uncluttered panel I like and capabilities I want. With the comm remote and three components in the panel it solves my mission.
pb
 
Yeah, the new software didn't fix my GNC 355 traffic problem. It sure feels like it's location dependent, and tomorrow I'll try to explore that some more. In flight in the Seattle area, it has never worked. In the mountains, it tends to work as long as I'm low.

I'm still not sure I did the right thing by going without a nav radio. But I've used the GMC 507 quite a bit and I was stressed about going with just the GMC 305. Turns out I'm very happy with it: heading and altitude selection via the G3X knobs works great.
 
Farmboy said:
Most experimental guys not using an expensive Navigator install the GPS20A for the non-tso WAAS GPS receiver. But of course there are many options to provide a solution to each mission.

I believe the G3X with a GNX375, a GTR20 and a GMC507 will allow me an uncluttered panel I like and capabilities I want. With the comm remote and three components in the panel it solves my mission.
pb
Click to expand...

I have the above setup without autopilot and it has worked perfectly since March.
 
kshunz said:
It sure feels like it's location dependent, and tomorrow I'll try to explore that some more. In flight in the Seattle area, it has never worked. In the mountains, it tends to work as long as I'm low.
Click to expand...

Are you perhaps seeing a conflict between UAT and 1090 traffic information? I would expect both to be present in the Seatle area but not low in the hills.
 
frequent_flyer said:
Are you perhaps seeing a conflict between UAT and 1090 traffic information? I would expect both to be present in the Seatle area but not low in the hills.
Click to expand...

Are you making any progress with finding the conditions that cause the problem?

I was flying today in an area with good coverage and an area with no ground station coverage. I made several screen shots of the status pages that are available from MENU / MENU / DATA LINK. Send a PM with an email address if you would like to have them.
 
Not much progress on the GNC 355 traffic issue. I flew the same track and altitude as a previous flight, beginning in the Seattle area and heading up Stampede Pass. Previously it started working right as I crossed the pass, but this time I'd only just entered the canyon when it started working. Turned around and then it stopped working as I came out of the canyon again. So again it seems to depend on where I am. Back in November we traded out the GNC 355 with another unit, but it didn't make a difference.

Cub Crafters wants me to head over there so they can download the logs from the G3X. They said something about needing "proprietary software". I download the flight logs all the time and could simply send them, so I'll try to verify that it's something else they need.
 
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