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Exhaust options

Grant

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At Work.....
I'm at a point where I'm looking for my exhaust system. I know about (or thought I did) all of the options.... Standard, Atlee HD, Sutton, Powerflow, etc... But I saw this and wondered if it was available for a certified cub? It looks like the vetterman exhaust and I thought it was experimental only.

https://www.vettermanexhaust.info/product-page/super-cub
exhaust.jpg
 

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Why wouldn’t a Vetterman exhaust qualify as a minor alteration? It doesn’t appear to fit into the major alteration definition.
 
Why wouldn’t a Vetterman exhaust qualify as a minor alteration? It doesn’t appear to fit into the major alteration definition.

I would think it would fall under the following:

(xii) Changes to the basic design of the fuel, oil, cooling, heating, cabin pressurization, electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, or exhaust systems.

I would be curious to know how well that exhaust works for those who have tried it.
 
Rubbert’s also. From my understanding, it’s a Sutton with a few tweaks and a bigger diameter exhaust stack
 
I don’t see it as a change from the basic design. Pipes and mufflers. Pretty basic.
Scavenging effects, heat transfer to carb/cabin, mass distribution affecting vibratory response. 100:1 none of those are realistically adversely affected, but - - -
 
Mine works great.

I don’t see it as a change from the basic design. Pipes and mufflers. Pretty basic.

Hate to have to argue that one in front of an NTSB Judge. Not saying you're wrong. Court doesn't decide right or wrong, it decides guilty or not guilty.
 
Grant
I am a big fan of the Hot Rod exhaust on a certified cub. Good power, lots of heat, no baffle, and great support. Downside is it is loud and it makes a lot of heat. I would call Kirk Ellis he may be able to give advice on a Vetterman. Rubberts would be second if I lived in warm country and wanted something today.
DENNY
 
Grant have you seen this one? https://customaircraft.com
It is well built, excellent fit, the heat muff is forward like the Sutton and with the heat studs keeps the cabin warm. The dual exhaust does send a lot of noise up through the belly.
 
Rubbert’s also. From my understanding, it’s a Sutton with a few tweaks and a bigger diameter exhaust stack
I also knew about Rubbert's system. I also heard it has a bit more clearance so you dont need to notch out the lower cowling rails. I understand it may be available as a certified exhaust through Dakota Cub soon. I'm not in a hurry.

I like the hot rod muffler too but I think i'd like to keep it away from the firewall because of the heat. I do live in MN so heat is important but I dont want too much heat in the summer. I dont care about loud. People dont like me already :lol:.


Kirk Ellis he may be able to give advice on a Vetterman.

I thought that was Loni's cub that it was on in the original picture. I have a buddy at my airport who is building an experimental with it and I really like how clean it looks.


Grant have you seen this one? https://customaircraft.com
It is well built, excellent fit, the heat muff is forward like the Sutton and with the heat studs keeps the cabin warm. The dual exhaust does send a lot of noise up through the belly.

I had not seen it until now. I like it.

My problem is that I am certified and I'd really like to have dual exhaust so it exits at the original location, and I would like to have the crossover at the front. Seems the ones that fit the bill are experimental only.
 
Hate to have to argue that one in front of an NTSB Judge. Not saying you're wrong. Court doesn't decide right or wrong, it decides guilty or not guilty.

I posed a question. I think some guys read more into the regs than what the words say. I’m Exp so I don’t need to worry about it. My Vetterman’s sound gets compliments from other Cub owners who hear it. The fit is excellent in my crowded cowling. Great product and customer service. I recommend Clint when asked about exhausts.
 
I have a Vetterman system for o320 that I will sell in the spring when my new engine is done. 3 hot air takeoffs. Very clean arrangement and they sound good.

I also have a LEES o360 complete setup available.


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
 
Grant
I am a big fan of the Hot Rod exhaust on a certified cub. Good power, lots of heat, no baffle, and great support. Downside is it is loud and it makes a lot of heat. I would call Kirk Ellis he may be able to give advice on a Vetterman. Rubberts would be second if I lived in warm country and wanted something today.
DENNY

Hey Denny, do you know how it makes good heat with no baffle? Usually open flowing exhaust makes poor heat.

Thanks,
Pb


Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers… [emoji849]
 
It's the speed of the air in the heating chamber. The air may come through the scat tube fast, but if the space between the shroud and the muffler is large enough, it slows down as it passes through. The longer the airmass stays in the heating area, the more its temperature will be increased.

Web
 
S
It's the speed of the air in the heating chamber. The air may come through the scat tube fast, but if the space between the shroud and the muffler is large enough, it slows down as it passes through. The longer the airmass stays in the heating area, the more its temperature will be increased.

Web

So is the heat provided by the AD Hot Rod exhaust better than the Sutton with heat ribbons?
 
Hey Denny, do you know how it makes good heat with no baffle? Usually open flowing exhaust makes poor heat.

Thanks,
Pb

Not sure why but the normal floor heat is run through a SCAT tube under the front seat to the back. I checked it with a IR temp gun and it was over 200 degrees. I can only run it at 1/3 -1/2 open or the back seater complains it is too hot. I think Web is on the right track. I have the heat robber cuff on the front crossover tube then the air goes back to the muffler, the top 1/2 of the exhaust stack also has a cuff so you get a lot of surface area. My back seat heat box is mounted high and ducted to defrost only. I usually don't run it wide open because it gets the GPS too hot. You have to be careful with that back seat SCAT tube, had a buddy hunting wolves with the shells in a bag on the floor. When they got back home they found some of them had started to melt from the heat. Another buddy had the bottom of he's insulated hunting boot start to delaminate, he did not realize how hot it was cause of the insulation. DENNY
 
Would you expect to see a difference in muffler temp with or without the flame cones? I wouldn't expect it to be any different in a warmed up airplane. Acorn has built Skywagon mufflers without flame cones for many years. Initially they warned buyers that their gutted muffler may not put out adequate heat. Along the way they shrugged it off as not making enough difference to matter. Certainly not in temps we average guys fly in. A survey plane in the arctic that loiters for hours on end in relatively slow flight? Maybe it matters to them.
 
I could tell when a Cessna muffler lost part of the cones in winter cold. Somewhere south of -20F down to -50F it required closing the outside fresh air mixer flap and running straight heated air. Windshields and side windows developed frost w/o adequate air flow through the cockpit so it was a game of heat vs flow management. My Cubs had stock exhausts and excellent heat for the pilot down to -20F. The rear occupants (dogs especially) were the canaries. When their frosty breath started flowing forward I knew it was time to quit flying.

I see these Sutton forward exhausts have an open end on the left side near the two outlet taps and header pipe entrance. What is that in aid of?

Edit: More to the point. Is the Sutton exhaust's heated air able to exit what appears to be the open left end of the system...or is there an internal bulkhead to force the flow out the two heated air taps?

Gary
 
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Thanks Gordon for the fill. The bulkhead for the cabin heat makes sense. A friend had a new Sutton on a PA-22 and was not pleased with the cabin heat vs the old system. We looked and all I could see were the two outlets and the opening around the left outlet. Carb sucks so open is needed.

Gary
 
I'm curious, did you ever sell those exhausts, looks like I may be needing one...?

QUOTE=akmarty;836276]I have a Vetterman system for o320 that I will sell in the spring when my new engine is done. 3 hot air takeoffs. Very clean arrangement and they sound good.
My
I also have a LEES o360 complete setup available.


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org[/QUOTE]
 
I run the leading edge exhaust (now made by power flow) Quiet best in class heat by far especially with the secondary heat chamber and the rear seat heater
from Atlee attached to it.
On top of it makes good power easily at par with the hot rod--it has a bit of a throaty exhaust note but much quieter than the hot rod.
We have run Leading edge exhaust on all our Cessna's and the cub and they outlast all the others by a long shot.
I guess the only down side is that it is a bit heavier than the rest.
 
Why not straight pipes? I saw a home built the other day with an O-320 that had 2 into 1 straight pipes on both sides. There was a heat cuff on one side for carb heat. No cabin heat as it was an open cockpit biplane.

Does anyone run straight pipes on a Super Cub? Would it be legal?
 
Why not straight pipes? I saw a home built the other day with an O-320 that had 2 into 1 straight pipes on both sides. There was a heat cuff on one side for carb heat. No cabin heat as it was an open cockpit biplane.

Does anyone run straight pipes on a Super Cub? Would it be legal?

Straight pipes are not legal on a certified Cub, nor as efficient as Crossovers. We had them on a number of Restricted category banner planes. They have a number of disadvantages. For certified it's hard to beat the Pro Pilot front muffler. I also had the FA DODge "hotrod" muffler but it seemed really loud in the cabin.

Monty Python called these "dental appendages."
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