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Thread: Exhaust options

  1. #1
    Grant's Avatar
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    Exhaust options

    I'm at a point where I'm looking for my exhaust system. I know about (or thought I did) all of the options.... Standard, Atlee HD, Sutton, Powerflow, etc... But I saw this and wondered if it was available for a certified cub? It looks like the vetterman exhaust and I thought it was experimental only.

    https://www.vettermanexhaust.info/pr...page/super-cub
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    DJ's Avatar
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    I think that Cub is used for R&D on new products at times.Click image for larger version. 

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    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  3. #3
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Why wouldn’t a Vetterman exhaust qualify as a minor alteration? It doesn’t appear to fit into the major alteration definition.
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  4. #4
    Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Why wouldn’t a Vetterman exhaust qualify as a minor alteration? It doesn’t appear to fit into the major alteration definition.
    I would think it would fall under the following:

    (xii) Changes to the basic design of the fuel, oil, cooling, heating, cabin pressurization, electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, or exhaust systems.
    I would be curious to know how well that exhaust works for those who have tried it.

  5. #5
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Mine works great.

    I don’t see it as a change from the basic design. Pipes and mufflers. Pretty basic.

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    Rubbert’s also. From my understanding, it’s a Sutton with a few tweaks and a bigger diameter exhaust stack
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  7. #7
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    I don’t see it as a change from the basic design. Pipes and mufflers. Pretty basic.
    Scavenging effects, heat transfer to carb/cabin, mass distribution affecting vibratory response. 100:1 none of those are realistically adversely affected, but - - -
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Mine works great.

    I don’t see it as a change from the basic design. Pipes and mufflers. Pretty basic.
    Hate to have to argue that one in front of an NTSB Judge. Not saying you're wrong. Court doesn't decide right or wrong, it decides guilty or not guilty.
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  9. #9

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    Grant
    I am a big fan of the Hot Rod exhaust on a certified cub. Good power, lots of heat, no baffle, and great support. Downside is it is loud and it makes a lot of heat. I would call Kirk Ellis he may be able to give advice on a Vetterman. Rubberts would be second if I lived in warm country and wanted something today.
    DENNY
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  10. #10
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Grant have you seen this one? https://customaircraft.com
    It is well built, excellent fit, the heat muff is forward like the Sutton and with the heat studs keeps the cabin warm. The dual exhaust does send a lot of noise up through the belly.
    N1PA

  11. #11
    Grant's Avatar
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    Rubbert’s also. From my understanding, it’s a Sutton with a few tweaks and a bigger diameter exhaust stack
    I also knew about Rubbert's system. I also heard it has a bit more clearance so you dont need to notch out the lower cowling rails. I understand it may be available as a certified exhaust through Dakota Cub soon. I'm not in a hurry.

    I like the hot rod muffler too but I think i'd like to keep it away from the firewall because of the heat. I do live in MN so heat is important but I dont want too much heat in the summer. I dont care about loud. People dont like me already .


    Kirk Ellis he may be able to give advice on a Vetterman.

    I thought that was Loni's cub that it was on in the original picture. I have a buddy at my airport who is building an experimental with it and I really like how clean it looks.


    Grant have you seen this one? https://customaircraft.com
    It is well built, excellent fit, the heat muff is forward like the Sutton and with the heat studs keeps the cabin warm. The dual exhaust does send a lot of noise up through the belly.
    I had not seen it until now. I like it.

    My problem is that I am certified and I'd really like to have dual exhaust so it exits at the original location, and I would like to have the crossover at the front. Seems the ones that fit the bill are experimental only.

  12. #12
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
    Hate to have to argue that one in front of an NTSB Judge. Not saying you're wrong. Court doesn't decide right or wrong, it decides guilty or not guilty.
    I posed a question. I think some guys read more into the regs than what the words say. I’m Exp so I don’t need to worry about it. My Vetterman’s sound gets compliments from other Cub owners who hear it. The fit is excellent in my crowded cowling. Great product and customer service. I recommend Clint when asked about exhausts.
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  13. #13

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    An other thumbs up for Vetterman exhaust. I have two systems on experimental panes and NO issues.
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  14. #14

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    I have a Vetterman system for o320 that I will sell in the spring when my new engine is done. 3 hot air takeoffs. Very clean arrangement and they sound good.

    I also have a LEES o360 complete setup available.


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    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Grant
    I am a big fan of the Hot Rod exhaust on a certified cub. Good power, lots of heat, no baffle, and great support. Downside is it is loud and it makes a lot of heat. I would call Kirk Ellis he may be able to give advice on a Vetterman. Rubberts would be second if I lived in warm country and wanted something today.
    DENNY
    Hey Denny, do you know how it makes good heat with no baffle? Usually open flowing exhaust makes poor heat.

    Thanks,
    Pb


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  16. #16
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    It's the speed of the air in the heating chamber. The air may come through the scat tube fast, but if the space between the shroud and the muffler is large enough, it slows down as it passes through. The longer the airmass stays in the heating area, the more its temperature will be increased.

    Web
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  17. #17
    AZinAK's Avatar
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    S
    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    It's the speed of the air in the heating chamber. The air may come through the scat tube fast, but if the space between the shroud and the muffler is large enough, it slows down as it passes through. The longer the airmass stays in the heating area, the more its temperature will be increased.

    Web
    So is the heat provided by the AD Hot Rod exhaust better than the Sutton with heat ribbons?

  18. #18

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    Grant, where did you find that original photo. The green cub looks familiar.

  19. #19
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZinAK View Post
    S

    So is the heat provided by the AD Hot Rod exhaust better than the Sutton with heat ribbons?
    Need to ask around. Very subjective, to say the least.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  20. #20

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    [QUOTE=Farmboy;836317]Hey Denny, do you know how it makes good heat with no baffle? Usually open flowing exhaust makes poor heat.

    Thanks,
    Pb

    Not sure why but the normal floor heat is run through a SCAT tube under the front seat to the back. I checked it with a IR temp gun and it was over 200 degrees. I can only run it at 1/3 -1/2 open or the back seater complains it is too hot. I think Web is on the right track. I have the heat robber cuff on the front crossover tube then the air goes back to the muffler, the top 1/2 of the exhaust stack also has a cuff so you get a lot of surface area. My back seat heat box is mounted high and ducted to defrost only. I usually don't run it wide open because it gets the GPS too hot. You have to be careful with that back seat SCAT tube, had a buddy hunting wolves with the shells in a bag on the floor. When they got back home they found some of them had started to melt from the heat. Another buddy had the bottom of he's insulated hunting boot start to delaminate, he did not realize how hot it was cause of the insulation. DENNY
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  21. #21
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Would you expect to see a difference in muffler temp with or without the flame cones? I wouldn't expect it to be any different in a warmed up airplane. Acorn has built Skywagon mufflers without flame cones for many years. Initially they warned buyers that their gutted muffler may not put out adequate heat. Along the way they shrugged it off as not making enough difference to matter. Certainly not in temps we average guys fly in. A survey plane in the arctic that loiters for hours on end in relatively slow flight? Maybe it matters to them.

  22. #22
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I could tell when a Cessna muffler lost part of the cones in winter cold. Somewhere south of -20F down to -50F it required closing the outside fresh air mixer flap and running straight heated air. Windshields and side windows developed frost w/o adequate air flow through the cockpit so it was a game of heat vs flow management. My Cubs had stock exhausts and excellent heat for the pilot down to -20F. The rear occupants (dogs especially) were the canaries. When their frosty breath started flowing forward I knew it was time to quit flying.

    I see these Sutton forward exhausts have an open end on the left side near the two outlet taps and header pipe entrance. What is that in aid of?

    Edit: More to the point. Is the Sutton exhaust's heated air able to exit what appears to be the open left end of the system...or is there an internal bulkhead to force the flow out the two heated air taps?

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-22-2022 at 07:43 PM.
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  23. #23
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    There's an internal bulkhead. The left (sorta open) side is carb heat and the right side is cabin heat.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  24. #24
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Thanks Gordon for the fill. The bulkhead for the cabin heat makes sense. A friend had a new Sutton on a PA-22 and was not pleased with the cabin heat vs the old system. We looked and all I could see were the two outlets and the opening around the left outlet. Carb sucks so open is needed.

    Gary

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