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Will the NX Cub Eventually Help Bring Down Insurance Rates?

I don't think they will go down.

I wonder how long it will be until insurance companies start using AI to screen YouTube videos of people doing dumb pilot tricks? Everything seems to come down to decision making and proficiency. Lots of people want to fly in the back country but they do not possess the basic skill of being able to land at the same spot every time.
 
I'm glad that people that need them (to feel comfortable) can now get a nosewheel version. Do I think they will bring down insurance rates for those of us in tailwheel? Absolutely not, that horse is already outta the barn! However, my firmly held opinion is that it will indirectly help to stave off further increases by keeping people out of tailwheel that have no business in them. So for that, I thank CC. They are saving the last of the 180s, 185s, and even the occasional Maule from certain bendage.

I ain't skerred to admit I would never buy a milk stool carbon cub. Now a good straight tail 182 is a lot of plane and at least looks like it was supposed to be that way.
 
Only way the NX will reduce insurance rates is if the price goes up much more you won't be able to afford fuel to fly it.
 
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Thanks for the post. I guess I'll be tagging along with Charlie Cafaro for my FX3 maintenance. Were the people who were not comfortable with the FX previous PA18 owners? I assume, and what I have flown for Demo flights, it did not seem much different than my PA18. I'm headed down to Tac Aero in a few weeks and will surely learn more.
 
They were not tail wheel pilots. You won't have any problem with the FX3 except trying to keep from grinning all the time. It is a great flying airplane. I have been very fortunate to get to fly it as much as I have. I was on my way home from Arkansas yesterday in my PA18 at 75 mph trying to figure out how to make the math work to be flying an FX3. 8)
 
For what it is worth the last 2 ground loops at our field were a Cessna 206 and a Cessna 172 straight tail both low time pilots in gusty cross wind conditions.

Both were cut loose by the instructor doing well enough. Nothing can replace time in the seat and in depth training in adverse conditions.

No mater where the 3rd wheel is located one needs to stay within the pilots limitation.

It is a difficult job to teach this. Some pilots need to be pushed to learn their personal limits and others need to be reeled in hard to stay within their's.

A plane is just a plane. The important part is to work on our own skill level.

No mater how good you are or how long you have been flying try to make the next landing - approach - etc better than the last and you will do just fine
 
Maybe it's not a looker....but it is a performer!

I'd rather see folks with the cash to spend and maybe not enough time to keep tailwheel profient get into one of these than the alternative. Super smart and bold move by Cub Crafters. I think you will start seeing more of them around. Fewer accidents will help the statistics that effect rates. This could help in the long term. Doubt in the short term.

cafi
 
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No, I don’t believe the NXCub will decrease tailwheel insurance. I believe that only decreasing the tailwheel loss rate can do that, and more specifically decreasing the loss rate for your particular type of airplane. The handful of pilots that will buy an nxcub instread of the type YOU fly that also would’ve crashed the type you fly is probably going to be miniscule.

I fly my FX3 without hull insurance after being quoted 30k per year at 15 hours in type. Still quoted 12K with 120 safe hours. That is for hull value to replace the airplane, estimated at $350K. I guess time will tell if that is stupid of me, but I do at least carry a liability only policy that I had to pay $2k for to legally cross Canada. If it came down to under $6k per year I would consider a policy. FX3’s continue to be crashed at alarming rate so I doubt it will ever go down that low, especially for an AK based plane, even if I had 1k hrs in it. Everytime I look at the NTSB there is another ground loop or three in the type. Just do a CAROL search for aircraft models CCX-2000 and CCK-2000.
 
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High insurance rates are common for the latest high priced “Shiny machine”, especially if it sports a tailwheel. Unfortunately, some new owners get either a “quickie” check out, or none at all. Those often end up in a ball, and the rest of the owners of the type pay more to cover the losses.

Alaska is a special case, partially because much of AK is public lands, and, while aircraft operations are legal, if you break it out there, it must be removed, and that can get expensive due to distances and helicopter costs. A gentleman in the Mat Valley who recently was killed made a good living for years with a restricted category Huey, in large part retrieving bent planes.

I carried liability only on my Cessna 170 when it went to floats in Fairbanks. My intent was to Do float ratings in it. With a ~ $50K hull value, hull insurance would have been well over $6K. This was no student solo, and me as instructor with several thousand hours seaplane time. Why? High risk.

A nosewheel airplane is almost assuredly going to fall into a different insurance category as compared to a nearly identical tailwheel version. The nosewheel mostly eliminates those pesky “loss of control on ground” accidents that tailwheel types feature prominently in accident statistics.

Maule has built both nosewheel and tailwheel versions that are otherwise identical of some of their models for quite a few years. Tailwheel Maules are well known to be costly to insure, so a comparison between gear configurations there may be instructive.

But I’ll bet the nosewheel versions are going to be cheaper to insure.

MTV
 
If you don't mind me asking - was that with Star Insurance? Low Tailwheel time?

Star and Falcon were the only companies I could get a quote from at all and the price was near identical. I had about 100 tailwheel on the initial quote and 200 when it came down to 12k, no accidents etc. Also took 17 hours worth of tac aero type specific training which they did not care about at all.

Not the end of the world, as long as the .gov or terms of your loan (if you get one) don't require insurance, one is always free to not purchase the product.
 
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Thanks for the reply, I'm headed down to Texas - Tac Aero in December. Hopefully it's beneficial, I have very little constant Speed prop experience, 800 hrs PA-18, have not gotten ins quotes yet, but I'm mentally prepared now. Final build week should be beginning march or so.
 
350k is a LOT of hull coverage and a LOT of airplane. That will never be cheap to insure. It's not just loss rates that are up - the plane valuations are through the roof. Time was you could build a carbon cub for 200k and insure it that way, and a brand new freshly overhauled certified supercub with 0 time engine could be had all day for $150k. Seems those days are gone. Welcome to the new era.
 
Thanks for the reply, I'm headed down to Texas - Tac Aero in December. Hopefully it's beneficial, I have very little constant Speed prop experience, 800 hrs PA-18, have not gotten ins quotes yet, but I'm mentally prepared now. Final build week should be beginning march or so.

When I was trying to get insurance locked in for phase 1 flying of my FX-3 I had submitted all the tail wheel types I had flown but declared that I only had 1 hour in the FX-3. I was asked if I knew an instructor with PA-18 time. I sad "Yes, me". For some reason that seemed to float their boat and I was accepted with 1 hour FX-3 time on the assurance I would have a ground checkout by a CFI or factory pilot before I first flew mine. I actually got another hour in the factory demonstrator on skiis which I enjoyed and which kept the insurance happy.

I did have a huge deductable until phase 1 one complete so ask about that before you accept a quote.

Talk to Teri Banstitre at North West Insurance if you have a problem finding coverage, With your PA-18 time it should be easy enough but not cheap.
 
350k is a LOT of hull coverage and a LOT of airplane. That will never be cheap to insure. It's not just loss rates that are up - the plane valuations are through the roof. Time was you could build a carbon cub for 200k and insure it that way, and a brand new freshly overhauled certified supercub with 0 time engine could be had all day for $150k. Seems those days are gone. Welcome to the new era.

Actually the liability part of insurance coverage hasn't gone up much over the years. Just like you said it's the hull valuations that have gone through the roof. Add to it that the number of low time tailwheel pilots wrecking these expensive toys.
 
Maintenance is problematic. One weak cylinder on one single differential test and they all come off. Cub annuals routinely breaking ten grand. Bungees replaced at two year intervals. Covering a single Cub wing can cross ten grand. Bend a spar and almost double that.

Ordinary folk must learn to do a lot of this themselves - my buddies are complaining about a thousand dollar oil change. There is a simple solution to that one.
 
Thanks for the reply, I'm headed down to Texas - Tac Aero in December. Hopefully it's beneficial, I have very little constant Speed prop experience, 800 hrs PA-18, have not gotten ins quotes yet, but I'm mentally prepared now. Final build week should be beginning march or so.

Time in type will eventually help. They seemed not to count PA-18 time or other tailwheel time in any meaningful way for me. Alaska is also a big part of the problem for me.

It was explained to me that insurance premiums usually start at about 2% of hull value. Tailwheel? Add another 1%. Experimental? Another 1%. You are based in Alaska? Have another 1%. And the biggie: no time in type? Add about 5% on a sliding scale until you get about 200 hours in type. You might be able to persuade some insurers that PA18 time counts for a CC, no such luck for me!
 
Maintenance is problematic. One weak cylinder on one single differential test and they all come off. Cub annuals routinely breaking ten grand. Bungees replaced at two year intervals. Covering a single Cub wing can cross ten grand. Bend a spar and almost double that.

Ordinary folk must learn to do a lot of this themselves - my buddies are complaining about a thousand dollar oil change. There is a simple solution to that one.
Not the norm in my world Bob. Reading your post sounds like the sky is falling. ;)
 
In the early 1950s piper posted an ad for the new tri-pacer which said “we take the skill out of flying”. That just about says it all. I used to have pilots apply for Banner tow jobs and when I asked about their tail wheel endorsement they’d say “I don’t have one but that’s no problem I can get it“. I didn’t ask how much experience they had landing in quartering tail winds on paved runways in conventional gear. I think that just about says it all too. :lol:
 
When the insurer is paying folks seem not to care. When it is routine maintenance the lawyers might be driving the shop recommendations. Often the owners wouldn't know a piston from a spark plug, and just say "fix it." Folks out in the country, like Steve above, are often in love with aviation and do what they do for enjoyment, while making a living.

But I am surrounded by shops that have hangqr rent and insurance payments well over a hundred grand a year - how many annuals does it take to cover that?
 
If you have a moron flying it!!

My recollection of the accident investigation may be different from yours. My recollection was there were a lot of pilots who found out that Va didn't mean quite what they thought it meant and that the rudder limiter didn't do quite what they thought it did.
 
I also recall that in spite of the overcontrolling in the 747's wake turbulence, there had been a repair to the fiberglass spar in the fin, at the factory, prior to the original delivery which failed.
 
Continuing on with this insurance discussion, and Steve - maybe move this to a new thread, but I have a question: What does Type mean? Seems to me my current plane PA18 L21B (Picture attached) is the same "type" of plane as a Carbon Cub FX3, it may not be the same make and model but it certainly is the same "Type " of airplane, so when the insurance company asks time in type, what do I say? Any input on this? help me out

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Don't ask us. Your insurance underwriter is looking for ways to not "pay out." One reason is if you were not truthful on your application. If they say "PA-18 is the same as Carbon Cub" get it in writing, or at least scribble down the date/time and the name of the agent on your policy.

Ask them.
 
Continuing on with this insurance discussion, and Steve - maybe move this to a new thread, but I have a question: What does Type mean? Seems to me my current plane PA18 L21B (Picture attached) is the same "type" of plane as a Carbon Cub FX3, it may not be the same make and model but it certainly is the same "Type " of airplane, so when the insurance company asks time in type, what do I say? Any input on this? help me out

What insurance carrier asks for "time on type"? Mine asks for time Make and Model. Only time in a CubCrafters FX-3 qualifies for make and model on my insurance. Even an EX-3 does not qualify. A CCK-2000 is not a CCX-2000.

On my initial application I listed all the tailwheel types in which I had logged time. In my opinion the Husky was the most similar to the FX-3 as it has a CS prop but I don't think it counted for anything except total time tailwheel.
 
Spoke to a gent who a new NX Cub from CC. He's not a youngster. The full coverage insurance quote took my breath away. Doesn't seem like nose gear is making much difference.....more driven by stated value and age of participant.

MTV
 
NX owner, stale thread but after lurking finally got signed up here so I'll pipe up. Decent amount of tailwheel time and owned another CC airplane, was curious to see if there would be any difference in insurance, especially after hearing estimates on the ground loop rate on first time/new airplane tailwheel owners in recent years. Bottom line is no reduction yet/insurance is eye-watering, best I can figure: hull values are through the roof, not enough annualized data for the data crunchers to see a difference, and the insurance market as a whole seems like a sellers market at the moment.
 
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