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Thread: Cost of saving lbs...

  1. #41
    Flyingde's Avatar
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    If you put the airplane on a diet, once a pound is removed, it’s gone forever. While it’s true that it’s cheaper to lose pounds from the pilot, that talk is cheap and those pounds are either never lost or if they are, find a way to come back, sometimes plus a few, later on down the road. Americans as a whole are not a skinny bunch…
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  2. #42
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soyAnarchisto View Post
    I can tell you the difference between 900# cub and a 1100# is astronomical. Like with a capital A.

    For light weight stuff, you gotta make real sacrifices - which also saves money - like leaving stuff off that you might like to have but really don't need. Like flaps (maybe), wing ribs (13 versus 1, alternators, starters, electrical systems, dual controls, gas tanks, instruments, extended baggage, cargo doors, float fittings, paint, metal belly, cargo pods, swing out engine mounts, square wing tips, etc....

    Dont forget magnesium - like those new fangled oil sumps. You need all the -iums when you got the checkbook for it.

    My 180 was 1558lbs when she rolled out the door in 1955 and has gained a solid 175lbs since. It's gonna cost a fair bit to get her back anywhere close. But mostly removing stuff.
    Have you weighed that 180? A lot of Cessnas came out the door weighing more than they said on paper. Not all those planes were actually weighed.

    If you haven’t weighed it, I’d consider weighing it before you start lightening it.

    MTV
    MTV
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  3. #43
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Improve the wing's lift plus the prop's thrust and the pounds disappear

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 09-22-2022 at 11:38 PM.
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  4. #44
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Going to CF floor boards saved me 14.5 pounds.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Going to CF floor boards saved me 14.5 pounds.
    can you elaborate on that?
    PA18?
    Cabin AND baggage area?

  6. #46
    tedwaltman1's Avatar
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    I saved 10+ lbs with a carbon fiber (vacuum bagged, diviny cell foam sandwich) floor. Wide body experimental Super Cub. Front to back of baggage area.
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  7. #47

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    I just weighed stock wood floor boards front and rear and have a total weight of 6.4lbs so how you guys are saving 10 plus pounds is a mystery to me.
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    I just weighed stock wood floor boards front and rear and have a total weight of 6.4lbs so how you guys are saving 10 plus pounds is a mystery to me.
    The CF is actually lighter than air... It's actually screwed down to keep it from floating. The lift of the floorboards on the airframe is anywhere from 5-15 lbs.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1934A View Post
    The CF is actually lighter than air... It's actually screwed down to keep it from floating. The lift of the floorboards on the airframe is anywhere from 5-15 lbs.
    Think it’s the extra money that’s not in one’s wallet anymore is where the difference comes from
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  10. #50

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    7 lbs 14 oz on these lightly used, stock cub birch floors,
    but same idea..
    Replaced with .050 diamond plate. Same weight as wood.
    biggest benefit, besides tough as nails,they’re a lot thinner, I can get the seat base bolts in and out now without cussing up a storm.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #51
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    Carbon floors are very slippery. Not a big problem in the pilot area but a nuisance in the dog and cargo areas. The solution is to add a traction mat. Bye bye weight savings! Function needs to be priority #1. Weight reduction that compromises function isn’t worth doing.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    weight reduction that compromises function isn’t worth doing.
    amen !
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"

  13. #53
    tedwaltman1's Avatar
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    Backcountry Super Cub kit floorboards—wide body fuselage—must be lead infused.

  14. #54
    tedwaltman1's Avatar
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    Interesting. 1,100+ hours in my carbon fiber floor Cub. Lots of Young Eagle rides. I’ve never slipped on my carbon fiber floor. No one else, to my knowledge, has slipped getting in or out of my carbon fiber floor Cub.
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  15. #55
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Spurr can barely stand up on it in parking. Any cargo put back there had to be well secured so not to slide. At least I put in plenty of Ancra plates. Life is much easier with a traction mat.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #56
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Have you weighed that 180? A lot of Cessnas came out the door weighing more than they said on paper. Not all those planes were actually weighed.

    If you haven’t weighed it, I’d consider weighing it before you start lightening it.

    MTV
    MTV
    Piper and cessna must have used the same scales at the factory. Lots of suspiciously light weight cubs. Most 160hp will be in the 1150+ range
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    I just weighed stock wood floor boards front and rear and have a total weight of 6.4lbs so how you guys are saving 10 plus pounds is a mystery to me.
    I think most mean front, rear, and extended baggage. Bill R. was pretty meticulous with his weights and he shows the full set of boards weighing nearly 18 pounds in his thread.
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  18. #58
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Here's a mid-'70s Cessna delivery W&B. Notice the initial weight of 1560.9# for a basic airplane, dry, unpainted, and the weight is computed. Dollars to doughnuts that computation was under actual weight. Every Cessna I know that gets weighed comes up higher than the calculated weight. Some guys won't weigh the plane because of that. I weigh mine every time I do something to it.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  19. #59
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott A View Post
    I think most mean front, rear, and extended baggage. Bill R. was pretty meticulous with his weights and he shows the full set of boards weighing nearly 18 pounds in his thread.
    There's a wide variance in wood grades and weights. If, for example, you are very selective about your woods and get lightweight Okoume mahogany marine plywood in 3/16" thickness it's very close to as light as carbon floor boards. On the other hand if you use heavy 1/4" A/C fir ply from a hardware store they will be MUCH heavier.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Improve the wing's lift plus the prop's thrust and the pounds disappear

    Gary
    Not when landing short, no?

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Not when landing short, no?
    I'll respond to myself: losing weight pays in all aspects of flight, but so does improving the wings lift I suppose, (for sure). When building, I've spent insane amounts of time with a UniBit and a round file, to save grams. I have lightening holes in my S-7S that I have not seen in any others....., but they made sense to me when I drilled them and still do! Taking a accumlative approach, I've saved tons, over the last 3K hours flight time, not hauling up/flying with, and then dealing with those extra pounds on landing. My one big regret is I used the stock kit supplied plywood floorboards, heavy, as others have mentioned. Whereas, I get a warm fuzzy feeling everytime I look at all the lightening holes I labored over.

    I will soon be installing an electronic fuel injection system on the Rotax, supposedly it will (for sure) improve engine response/improve fuel economy, and eliminate carb ice, AND (so they say) weigh less, it had better.

  22. #62
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Losing weight makes sense if you fly empty all the time. Not as much if you fly loaded, other than it provides for more payload. Your wing loading and power loading numbers are great if looking at an empty airplane. Not so great at 1320# when compared to airplanes that carry significantly more payload. At the end of the day it’s all a math exercise. If you take your load that puts you at gross and put that same load into a Supercub, Carbon Cub, Rev, etc? Those planes are running light where you’re running heavy. The math advantage goes to the other airplanes
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  23. #63
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Here's a mid-'70s Cessna delivery W&B. .....
    Thanks for posting that.
    I've asked many times about the weight of a factory paint job.
    Your posted W&B / equipment list shows "exterior, all over" paint job as 10.3# & 95".
    Pretty light, I was surprised.
    I would've guessed more like 30#.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  24. #64
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Thanks for posting that.
    I've asked many times about the weight of a factory paint job.
    Your posted W&B / equipment list shows "exterior, all over" paint job as 10.3# & 95".
    Pretty light, I was surprised.
    I would've guessed more like 30#.
    That paint may have weighed 30 pounds when it came out of the spray gun, but as it flashes off, most of the weight in the form of liquid, flashes off. I've always wondered what a paint job actually weighs. Ten pounds or so seems reasonable to me.

    MTV

  25. #65

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    I just finished rebuilding my extended baggage area from the back seat base back with carbon. All floorboards, sides and top (my baggabe area has a top cover as well) and so far I've saved 14 lbs.
    I probably overbuilt my original compartment (used .032). I found that a piece of CF composed of 3 layers of bagged material weighs almost exactly 1/2 of .032 alum. My biggest savings were in the floorboards. As for the 'slipperyness' that a few guys have brought up here..., after bagging a piece there is a glassy side and a not so pretty rough side on the finished piece..., I put the rough side up (it was going to get scratched up anyways).
    Next up...., headliner!
    PA-12

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