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Thread: 185 Insurance for Low Time

  1. #1
    Cardiff Kook's Avatar
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    185 Insurance for Low Time

    I got a $6,400/year quote from Avemco on a $225k hull value 185. Wheels only

    I have about 130 hours- 110 of it tailwheel. 85 hours last 12 months.

    Is this about what I can expect?

    Called BWI because I saw them referenced on sc.org- but curious if that number is about right.

    That's going to be alot of $ per hour of flying....

  2. #2

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    I got 185 quotes from Avemco almost a year ago and while I don't remember specifically the quote looks similar. At that time I think I had around mid 200s total time with just over half of those being tailwheel.

  3. #3
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    I got a $6,400/year quote from Avemco on a $225k hull value 185. Wheels only

    I have about 130 hours- 110 of it tailwheel. 85 hours last 12 months.

    Is this about what I can expect?

    Called BWI because I saw them referenced on sc.org- but curious if that number is about right.

    That's going to be alot of $ per hour of flying....
    See what BWI quotes. AVEMCO self underwrites, and they tend to be risk averse.

    But, that’s a lot of airplane considering your experience. It certainly can be done, and safely, but there’s a lot going on there. So, that quote may not be far off.

    MTV
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    All kidding aside, sounds cheap to me. Lots of bent and wrote off wagons every yr. I’m not sure I’d want to underwrite a 200k+ 185 with a low time guy out of my pocket for 6k. Fly it for a few hundred hrs, don’t bend anything and I bet your premium is 60% of that
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  5. #5
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Invest some funds in transition training. Most instructors say teaching a Skywagon pilot to fly a Cub is simple. Teaching a Cub pilot to fly a Skywagon? Not so much.

  6. #6
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Things happen fast in a Skywagon and the controls are heavy even numb at times. Best advice above. I first flew them on floats one summer which helped the transition.

    Gary

  7. #7
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I’m certain that ANY insurer will require substantial transition training in a 185. If they don’t, they won’t be in business long.

    MTV
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  8. #8
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I know a guy who put his 180 float plane on wheels.
    He had very little wheel time and no t/w time.
    Insurance wanted 25 hours of dual before they'd cover him solo.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  9. #9
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    All kidding aside, sounds cheap to me. Lots of bent and wrote off wagons every yr. I’m not sure I’d want to underwrite a 200k+ 185 with a low time guy out of my pocket for 6k. Fly it for a few hundred hrs, don’t bend anything and I bet your premium is 60% of that
    Not likely. 225k is a LOT of hull coverage - and that's the bulk of the premium. Welcome to skywagon ownership.

    I'm underinsured and I know it, but for reference I've got $105k hull on my 180, and my Avemco policy is just a hair under $3k/year. I have a commercial certificate with over 1,000 hrs TT, 800 t/w, and 360 in type and no incidents. Knocks wood.

    This is roughly double what my previous 180 was - insured for $60k hull just 5 years ago. Still with Avemco. My most recent quote from BWI was double what Avemco is charging me. YMMV.
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  10. #10
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    And all the skywagons are not the same. From an early one to a late model 185 the latter can really really be a handful. I've flown a couple 185s that were pretty dadgum scary... but they needed some rigging attention and mighta been bent.

    I transitioned from a J3 cub to a skywagon - Avemco required no dual whatsoever for me. I did 3-4 hours anyway - biggest help for me was ground handling and crosswind landings in heavy winds (> 20 knts). I was so scared coming from a cub and had to re-learn how to assess in heavier aircraft. But you still gotta learn on your own to a large degree. Set humble personal minimums and slowly expand on them and never ever let yourself get complacent.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Invest some funds in transition training. Most instructors say teaching a Skywagon pilot to fly a Cub is simple. Teaching a Cub pilot to fly a Skywagon? Not so much.

  11. #11
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Landing gear - both ends - and wings need to be properly aligned and airworthy. Cessna has procedures that can detect-correct problems. They get a mind of their own when out of rig and go wandering off as they please.

    Gary
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  12. #12
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Do you need a 185 or just want a tailwheel because they are cool?

    I almost bought a 185, insurance was $3600 a year with my ~500 hours of tailwheel. Bought a 206. Insurance is $1600 a year. $2k in free avgas per year for the upgrade to the 206.
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  13. #13
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    Do you need a 185 or just want a tailwheel because they are cool?

    I almost bought a 185, insurance was $3600 a year with my ~500 hours of tailwheel. Bought a 206. Insurance is $1600 a year. $2k in free avgas per year for the upgrade to the 206.
    I would second, third and fourth this suggestion. When I was a working stiff, Management opted to replace the 185 that I’d been flying for ten years with a…….gasp…..206. I really didn’t like the notion, but I got outvoted. My one demand was if they want a 206 get one with an IO-550.

    They did. And it took me about a day and a half to get over ever wanting to work a 185 again. What a fantastic workhorse of a machine, and room for stuff? Wow!

    But, the best thing of all: that big cargo door. No more wrestling outboard motors, Zodiaks and tons of stuff over and around front seats….. loading and unloading became easy.

    No way I’d buy a 185 if I could find a 206

    MTV
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  14. #14
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post

    But, the best thing of all: that big cargo door. No more wrestling outboard motors, Zodiaks and tons of stuff over and around front seats….. loading and unloading became easy.
    I only have time in one 206 but it didn't have that big cargo door. The good thing about that was getting rid of the jumpers was just like flying a 182. I'm sure the 206 experts will chime in on which variants had which door configuration.

  15. #15
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    I only have time in one 206 but it didn't have that big cargo door. The good thing about that was getting rid of the jumpers was just like flying a 182. I'm sure the 206 experts will chime in on which variants had which door configuration.
    Update - All my 206 flights except one were in a P206 (P designates passenger door configuration). Only one flight in a U206.

  16. #16

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    I have a little 206 time. Seemed like a heavy 182.
    Nowhere near as much fun as a good light 180.
    My very first 180 flight was solo out of Vero Beach, IFR. But I had a thousand J3 hours.
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  17. #17
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Only rode in 206's - EDO 3430's and three wheel skis for winter. Both owners claimed they performed well. I put a couple of my Yamaha Bravo snowmachines in them and two ATV's one at a time. Great airplanes with power.

    Gary
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  18. #18
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Most private guys don’t need a 206 unless they have 3+ kids or haul a LOT of stuff. I’d look at a 182. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to fly. I’d consider a nice Hawk XP at this point of my life. Great airplanes all, but the reason I have my 180 is for skis. I’m not a fan of nose draggers on skis.

  19. #19
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Stewart, you might be surprised at how capable a 182 or 206 is on skis.

    MTV

  20. #20
    stewartb's Avatar
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    There’s a plane for every mission. Watched them for 30 years. I’ll pass. Nowhere close to a Skywagon for my needs.
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  21. #21
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    The biggest difference I've seen in insurance quotes seems to be with the hours flown in the past 12 months. Fly that Wagon 300 hours the next year, and you will surely see rates of half or less. My first year of insurance was a little over half of what you've been quoted for similar hull coverage and $1m liability, but with a few more hours. They required 2 hours and 10 landings with an instructor, and I am just about 100% certain that I would've wadded it up in a pile if we quit at that point. For the record, I'm a slow learner, so don't base your potential on my limitations. That said, the previous comments about the work involved in flying a Wagon are spot on. I am admittedly inexperienced, but the physical work involved in flying a 185 into and out of the places I bought it for was quite a surprise, and I was very glad to have some good instruction before striking out on my own. If I could only have one, it would probably be a Wagon....Until we get the 4 place Super Cub built.

  22. #22
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    I've flown my skywagon almost 200 hours in the last year, and another 150 of pawnees, cubs, and land-o-matic planes with training wheels with glassy shiny lighty things with otto-thing-ma-bobs and a commercial check ride. My skywagon insurance went UP by $500 bucks or so this year at renewal with no change in hull coverage.

    It's a new world out here right now. One thing is for certain.... don't expect your insurance rates to go down any time soon - don't care how much you are flying. Imma test it out next year - goal is to double my flyin' agin. If I can just keep the ol' girl from breakin' so goldang much.
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  23. #23
    Lisa Martin LMartin's Avatar
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    I’ve heard told that insurance varies more with the stock market than any other variable. Hopefully this is just a recession that can be helped in a next election. Living through a depression is not on my bucket list.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  24. #24
    G44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
    I got a $6,400/year quote from Avemco on a $225k hull value 185. Wheels only

    I have about 130 hours- 110 of it tailwheel. 85 hours last 12 months.

    Is this about what I can expect?

    Called BWI because I saw them referenced on sc.org- but curious if that number is about right.

    That's going to be alot of $ per hour of flying....
    I think this is pretty reasonable for the experience level. I bet it would go down quite a bit once you get more time in the airplane. Try to fly it as much as you can in the shortest amount of calendar time. Call at the 6 month mark and ask for a reduction. So long as no crazy stock market stuff or high amount of Skywagon claims this should hold true. I have seen this happen with friends.

    Kurt

  25. #25
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I think it's immaterial whether you or anyone else thinks the premium is "reasonable".
    Priced a set of Cessna seat rails (or any other airplane parts) lately? Does the price seem reasonable?
    Get some quotes, the premiums are what they are.
    Pick the best one. Or not.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  26. #26
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    I think this is pretty reasonable for the experience level. I bet it would go down quite a bit once you get more time in the airplane. Try to fly it as much as you can in the shortest amount of calendar time. Call at the 6 month mark and ask for a reduction. So long as no crazy stock market stuff or high amount of Skywagon claims this should hold true. I have seen this happen with friends.

    Kurt
    I agree. The Cessna 185 is a kind of special case, and insurance premiums are going to reflect that. The airplane can be a bit of a handful, but it's a really great airplane....get some GOOD training in it, respect it, and spend lots of time in it. Get to the point where you really feel that you are the boss....then it'll humble you, and that's okay as long as nothing gets broken.

    They are fantastic airplanes, though, and I was fortunate enough to be able to fly several. If you can afford the insurance, just pay the bill as HotRod says, and get on with it. If you can't afford the insurance, you can't afford the airplane.

    MTV
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  27. #27

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    I increased my hull value to $150k this year and my insurance went up to $2300. I was at $100k and was quoted $1800. 2100 hours, ATP, 1100 hrs TW 200 in make

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