Non current a&p privileges
- Thread starter Superbill
- Start date
Grant
FRIEND
At Work.....
bob turner
Registered User
Sort of nebulous - doesn't say five days a week, eight hours a day. If interpreted as "full time" it would be more onerous than the IA requirement of "actively engaged" -
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Also there are no record keeping requirements.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
There are, to the best of my knowledge, no recent experience requirements for the holder of a repairman certificate to perform a condition inspection on the aircraft authorized by that certificate. Seems illogical that an A&P would be held to a higher standard for performing a condition inspection on an owned aircraft.
Superbill
MEMBER
Lostine Oregon
Totally agree. Logic however doesn't necessarily correspond to faa regs. I have been having another a&p IA do the annual, but he is hung up on the owner maintenance thing. He's pretty sure that can't be legal.
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
Are you referring to owner maintenance on the homebuilt aircraft?? If so, your other IA needs to familiarize himself with 14 CFR 43.1(b0, which states....
(b) This part does not apply to -
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft;
My emphasis added to highlight that Part 43 does not apply to a homebuilt aircraft since it has never been previously issued a different type of airworthiness certificate. This means that there are NO restrictions on who performs maintenance, repair, or modification. You don't have to be the owner, or the builder, or hold any type of FAA certificate in order to perform these functions.
The condition inspection is required not by FAA regulation, but by the aircraft's specific operating limitations, which also call out who can perform the condition inspection. No IA is required since the inspection is not an "annual" but is a condition inspection. The holder of the repairman certificate for that specific aircraft, or any A&P mechanic (with or without IA) can perform the inspection. That's the ONLY time an FAA certificate of any kind is required.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Not illogical at all. Your repairman cert allows you to work on a specific aircraft. My A&P allows me to work on most anything that flies.
Web
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
Sure, that's why I qualified my comment with "a condition inspection on an owned aircraft."
Grant
FRIEND
At Work.....
Also there are no record keeping requirements.
Now that right there is FUNNY!
Superbill
MEMBER
Lostine Oregon
I guess this sort of thing is why he considers owner maintenance to be some kind of "gray area ". My contention is that if it's not prohibited, then it's allowed.
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Several years ago FAA changed all the Op Limits and excluded anything that was already in the regulations. Many regulations themselves have exclusions like “all civil aircraft” or “aircraft with Standard Certificates” and the Part 43 exclusion of aircraft with Experimental Certificates unless a different type certificate was previously issued for that aircraft”. Now if there is an exclusion, and FAA wants those requirements imposed they do it via Operating Limitations. You need look no further than equipment and instrument requirements. If you only want to fly VFR day, you don’t need any instruments in an Experimental airplane. As soon as you want to fly night or IFR, now the requirements of 91.205 kick in via Operating Limitations.
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For Experimental airplanes (unless they had a different type of certificate previously), Part 43 does not apply! There is no certification requirement for the person performing maintenance, no log book entry requirements or any requirements for Maintenance! The Operating Limitations do require someone with a certificate to perform required inspections, and those inspections are required to be documented in the aircraft records.
The big gotcha in all this is aircraft that were previously certified in a different category. If you have an airplane that had a Standard Certificate, Restricted Certificate, Limited Certificate . . . Then all the provisions of Part 43 still apply! You still need to record all the maintenance. Maintenance still needs to be done by Certificated persons, approved data still needs to be used for all major repairs and major alterations, and 337s still need to be filed! People that think the can go Experimental Exhibition and get out of having to do all that are wrong based on the plain language of 43.1.
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Superbill
MEMBER
Lostine Oregon
This is a good point. I'm guessing that you'd have to be payed to check the spark plug at least. And it might be hard to argue that you checked that plug for 6 months straight. I realize that I probably could get away with it, but I'd prefer to have the law make some consistent logical sense.
Superbill
MEMBER
Lostine Oregon
Got it. It's eab.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
Did you read the extract from my EAB operational limitations? If so, how do you reconcile the references to Part 43 Appendix D with your statement above?
Part 43 Appendix D clearly is applicable to my EAB aircraft because the operating limitations say it is.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
I checked the operating limitations for my Experimental Exhibition / Air Racing sailplane that were issued 20 years ago. The format is very different but the requirement to perform a condition inspection references Part 43 Appendix D using similar wording to my 2 year old EAB operating limitations.
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
You are correct. The operating limitations are what makes that particular specific section of Part 43 applicable. This is why operating limitations are issued to aircraft with special (including experimental) certificates are issued. This is how the FAA makes certain specific regulations apply when they are exempted in the regulations themselves. So, 43.1 says that Part 43 is not applicable to your aircraft, but the operating limitations make that specific section apply.
