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Thread: Super Cub 90HP to 100HP

  1. #1

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    Super Cub 90HP to 100HP

    I have a 90HP in my PA-8-135 Super Cub. I'd like to put in a 100HP. Looking for paperwork or assistance with getting it.

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    jrussl's Avatar
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    Welcome to Supercub.org, Morris! If there is a way to do it, the folks here will surely point you in the right direction. Thanks for all you have done to help our young lady friend.


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  3. #3
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Curious why? I've had both and a C90 pulls better

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  4. #4

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    Me too - to what end? Unless your 90 is toast and you have an O-200 ready to go, this sounds like a lot of bucks for naught. But if you need to do it, a field approval ought to be easy.
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    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    You may wanta make sure the 0200 has a 90hp camshaft and C-85 pistons......... As Glen is hinting at your going Backwards!
    But good luck
    E

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    If you have a PA-18-135, why is there a C90 in it? Most people will upgrade rather than downgrade.

    I agree with Glenn, the 90 is a better engine than an O-200. If you do go with an O-200, make sure it has cylinders that allow putting the timing back to 28 degrees BTC. That’s worth about 10 HP.


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  7. #7

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    I have both….there are many threads on this subject. JimC always said the O200 wins below 9000 ft….my C90 won’t turn my 76-36 Catto as fast as my O200 static…I tried. But My 90 sure seems to pull hard…still am not sure why the op wants to swap…the difference is probably minimal but not knowing the situation If this is truly the end game…can it even be done on an 18-135?

  8. #8

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    Sorry about the miss print in my first post it is not a 135 it is a factory 90.
    Because I have multiple 200 in my fleet and the C-90 is no longer rebuildable.
    If Someone has done it and has the 337 and would lend me a copy for my local FSDO for a field approval.

  9. #9

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    Order a copy of the records for N4273S it had a field approval for O-200 when I owned it
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    gbflyer's Avatar
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    I think that Dons Dream Machines guy can hook you up if he’s still around???

  11. #11

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    And don't forget - the 90 is almost as rebuildable as the O-200. Same crank, rods, pistons, cylinders, bearings, probably gears - only difference is case and camshaft as far as I can tell.

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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris Riggin View Post
    Sorry about the miss print in my first post it is not a 135 it is a factory 90.
    Because I have multiple 200 in my fleet and the C-90 is no longer rebuildable.
    If Someone has done it and has the 337 and would lend me a copy for my local FSDO for a field approval.
    A C90 is almost the same as an 0200. They share everything but cam, lifter bodies and one valve spring

    Glenn
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    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    I thought the lifter body change was 85 to 90, and that the 90 and O-200 had the new larger ones.
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  14. #14

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    the first 90s had a cast cam 530185, then they switched to steel. the steel cams use the same lifters as the 0-200. just curious morris why your 90 isnt rebuildable? http://www.aeronca.org/ContinentalSB-M49-17.pdf
    Last edited by tempdoug; 04-07-2022 at 06:50 PM.
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  15. #15
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I thought the lifter body change was 85 to 90, and that the 90 and O-200 had the new larger ones.
    Oops, your right. I was thinking my stroker that I stuck a 90 cam in

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  16. #16
    JP's Avatar
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    The 90 is an exceptional engine. Keep the airplane light and you will love it.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
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  17. #17

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    Thank you for the information. Already moving forward with the paperwork!

  18. #18
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Something to keep in mind...... From old 2005 post on this subject:
    "The C90 and 0200 have the same lift but differ in valve over lap which is why you can swing a large dia. prop on the C90 but not the 0200". Seams like the 0200 was originally designed for 69" prop on the C150?
    Your mileage may vary......
    Hope it works out for you

  19. #19

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    little more research, just because its interesting. And i THINK its right. the 076 c90 cam has .330 of lift at the lobe. the 788 c90 cam has .334 lift at the lobe, thought they were the same but not according to a cam grinders manual. and the 626608 0-200 cam has .356 lift at the lobe. so basically the 90 lifts the valve .020 more than the 85 and the 0-200 lifts the valve .025 appox more than the 90. after the 1.2 rocker ratio is figured in.
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  20. #20
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Yes the valve timing varies between the C-90 and O-200....the latter being tuned via that valve timing for power at a higher rpm (C-150 style). The challenge then is finding a propeller to make efficient use of the O-200 power curve that's shifted to the right compared to the C-90's. Higher rpm can equal more prop drag (and some lost power just turning it) so not all of the expected thrust may be available. That assumes both models are unmodified from original. Here's where an adjustable composite propeller would let the owner fine tune prop pitch for desired performance.

    Found it bookmarked. JimC's and others having a good discussion about this topic: https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/f...al-0-200.2562/

    See Post#23 for cam specs from Continental: https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...overlap-timing

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 04-08-2022 at 10:47 PM.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    If you have a PA-18-135, why is there a C90 in it? Most people will upgrade rather than downgrade.

    I agree with Glenn, the 90 is a better engine than an O-200. If you do go with an O-200, make sure it has cylinders that allow putting the timing back to 28 degrees BTC. That’s worth about 10 HP.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hello,
    I would be interested in hearing more about the 0-200 cylinder/timing issue. I have an 0-200 in my PA-11 that previous owner had rebuilt by Lycon in 2005. I looked at my paperwork but find nothing that tells me anything at all about this sort of thing. I doubt a call to Lycon helps much these days, but may try it depending on what you know.
    Thanks
    Steve

  22. #22
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salex View Post
    Hello, I would be interested in hearing more about the 0-200 cylinder/timing issue...
    Thanks
    Steve
    See Note #5: http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/MSB94-8D.pdf

    Gary

  23. #23

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    Thanks, Gary!
    Even my brain could wrap around most of that! Appears that it will be easy to see if my engine will qualify and that it likely does. Do you or anyone else know of potential negatives/costs regarding that timing advance? And what is the mechanics/physics of the increased HP?
    Steve

  24. #24

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    rocker shaft bosses are heavier with the later cylinders, fires sooner before top dead center giving a little more umph but easier to kick back and break things if the cycle dosent go all the way through
    Last edited by tempdoug; 04-09-2022 at 08:45 AM.
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  25. #25

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    https://150cessna.tripod.com/c150o200ainsp.html scroll down to the cylinder part of this article, only side by side picture i could find.
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  26. #26

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    Super Cub 90HP to 100HP

    O-200s ran at 28 degrees before TDC for years until FAA issued AD 77-13-03, and then updated it with AD96-12-06. AD 77-13-03 required changing the timing to 24 degrees BTC, then 96-12-06 allowed it to go back to 28 if all 4 cylinders were changed to later cylinder part number or Millennium cylinders. No change in operation, no down side as long as the newer style cylinders are installed. Only up side, higher HP output. The AD required restamping the data plate to 24 degrees. The SB or STC for the new cylinders stamps it again back to 28 degrees.


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  27. #27

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    Are there any sodium filled exhaust valves for small continentals? ECI used to have a rotator in their 200/300 cylinders, no longer available but I am curious about finding any improvements for the small continentals. Tim

  28. #28
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astjp2 View Post
    Are there any sodium filled exhaust valves for small continentals? ECI used to have a rotator in their 200/300 cylinders, no longer available but I am curious about finding any improvements for the small continentals. Tim
    Valves are not the problem, rocker angle is not a straight push so wears the exhaust guide on one side.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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