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Upgrading a PA-18-150 to a 180. Things I should know? Help!

Cayman

Registered User
Granbury, TX
My first SuperCub.
Trying to convert a '63 PA-18-150 to a 180HP and trying to stay certified and will be towing with it with for a startup glider club - mostly trying to get kids involved in flying who worked hard to refurbish a 2-22 glider.
Would like to rebuild an O-360-Cxx core, but cannot find one. Where are they?
Cubcrafters says one can use an O-360-Axx engine/core, but I cannot find a dynafocal mount and they don't make them. (can't too busy). Anyplace known that might have a dynafocal mount and are they better than conical?
I have an O-320-A2B Narrow Deck that needs rebuilding which is the reason for all this.
Last resort is to find an O-320-A2B Wide Deck and upgrade to a 160hp at Lycon. Anyone have a 320-A2B wide Deck core?
Friend said I need to ensure my cub's wing has a "third" rib to upgrade to an O-360. Did that come about on a specific model year.
I replaced the Goodyear 26x10.5-6's with 800x6's. Anybody want? Tread depth is 1/4". I'm in Granbury, TX. 7e@earthlink.net
Carl
 
My first SuperCub.
Trying to convert a '63 PA-18-150 to a 180HP and trying to stay certified and will be towing with it with for a startup glider club - mostly trying to get kids involved in flying who worked hard to refurbish a 2-22 glider.
Would like to rebuild an O-360-Cxx core, but cannot find one. Where are they?
Cubcrafters says one can use an O-360-Axx engine/core, but I cannot find a dynafocal mount and they don't make them. (can't too busy). Anyplace known that might have a dynafocal mount and are they better than conical?
I have an O-320-A2B Narrow Deck that needs rebuilding which is the reason for all this.
Last resort is to find an O-320-A2B Wide Deck and upgrade to a 160hp at Lycon. Anyone have a 320-A2B wide Deck core?
Friend said I need to ensure my cub's wing has a "third" rib to upgrade to an O-360. Did that come about on a specific model year.
I replaced the Goodyear 26x10.5-6's with 800x6's. Anybody want? Tread depth is 1/4". I'm in Granbury, TX. 7e@earthlink.net
Carl

Keep in mind that if you are going to tow, you have to stay certified. All experimental certificates have as one of the op limits that the aircraft cannot be used for towing.

As for 160 or 180 hp, I prefer the 160, lighter and better balanced.


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Randy and Logan are first class folks.

Randy Rubbert Aircraft Maintenance and Repair
1850 2nd Ave NE
Reynolds, ND 58275
Contact:Randy Rubbert
Title:Owner
Phone:(701) 847-3008


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I am with dga - a 160 Cub is a delight; a 180 Cub is a piglet, except that it can go straight up. But if all you sre doing is towing, I suppose the more power the better.

I have a 180 Decathlon - I would convert it to 160 in a heartbeat if the paperwork was ok and I needed an overhaul. The 150 Dec is just as fast, on less gas. I only have 30 or so hours in 180 Cubs, but lots of 160 Cub time.
 
Hopefully the nose heavy stereotype for 180 hp Cubs will go away with sub 1200 lb builds and the Sensenich ground adjustable composite prop.

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Depends on the mission, no? How much time hauling full loads in a SC out of short unimproved strips? How much did that piglet weigh empty, and what prop?
a 180 Cub is a piglet, except that it can go straight up. But if all you sre doing is towing, I suppose the more power the better.
 
O-360

Have you sat down and read the STC? What does it specifically say about engine choices?

Web
Yes I have the Cubcrafter's info only STC for an O-360. Lists O-360-Axx models which require dynafocal mount and any O-360-Cxx preferably the C4P.;
 
If you already have a 150 SC, are there any structural modifications/beefups required to go to 180?
 
I would look at all the STCs for the 180 hp upgrade on a Super Cub. Cub Crafters uses a Dynafocal mount and their STC comes with a 2 piece fiberglass cowling and an engine mount etc. Rubbert and AERO use a conical mount and allow you to widen your existing cowl doors but I believe they use a wider nose bowl but I could be wrong. Check on the required exhaust as well. I would recommend the Sutton exhaust if it were me because of the ease of maintenance, no AD and it get the muffler off the firewall which really helps in the Texas summer. The Super Cub got an extra wing rib in the later PA18-135 and all the PA18-150. Never seen an STC that excluded the models with one less rib, just effected the Vne.

Engines and engine parts are a problem right now, hopefully that will be remedied sooner rather than later. Look at the Type Certificate Data Sheet on the Lycoming O-360 and at the bottom it will tell you the difference in all the different models.
 
The two PA-18-180 that I used to tow with were "Restricted" and had a block of lead on the tail. I don't remember anything unpleasant about their handling.
 
The 180 Cub on gear that I flew was a Cub Crafters "CharlieCharlie" - essentially stock, with standard prop and 26" tires. It did not handle poorly (after we put good ailerons on it) - it just didn't have the "feel" of a good Cub. Yes, it was heavy, but I suspect all of the CC cubs were right on up there close to the 1300# mark.

A good Cub is flown with thumb and forefinger.

Opinion.

The 180 amphib is the same way, but nobody expects a float-equipped Cub to be nimble.
 
My first SuperCub.
Trying to convert a '63 PA-18-150 to a 180HP and trying to stay certified and will be towing with it with for a startup glider club - mostly trying to get kids involved in flying who worked hard to refurbish a 2-22 glider.
Would like to rebuild an O-360-Cxx core, but cannot find one. Where are they?
Cubcrafters says one can use an O-360-Axx engine/core, but I cannot find a dynafocal mount and they don't make them. (can't too busy). Anyplace known that might have a dynafocal mount and are they better than conical?
I have an O-320-A2B Narrow Deck that needs rebuilding which is the reason for all this.
Last resort is to find an O-320-A2B Wide Deck and upgrade to a 160hp at Lycon. Anyone have a 320-A2B wide Deck core?
Friend said I need to ensure my cub's wing has a "third" rib to upgrade to an O-360. Did that come about on a specific model year.
I replaced the Goodyear 26x10.5-6's with 800x6's. Anybody want? Tread depth is 1/4". I'm in Granbury, TX. 7e@earthlink.net
Carl

I am interested in the Goodyears. Email me at stovestorewill@gmail.com
 
i have a 180cub towed banners for 25years with 1 my cubs are long wing cw 1125 cg at 13 cc dose not make the mount u need
i would go with randy r stc pm me if you would like to chat
 
Same width nose bowl for Rubbert/aero conversion. Get the Rubbert exhaust too- they got it stc’d recently; it’s just like a Sutton but narrower to eliminate the cowl rail interference issues the Sutton always had on the 360’s. They can also point you in the direction of a dynafocal mount...
 
I am with dga - a 160 Cub is a delight; a 180 Cub is a piglet, except that it can go straight up. But if all you sre doing is towing, I suppose the more power the better.

I have a 180 Decathlon - I would convert it to 160 in a heartbeat if the paperwork was ok and I needed an overhaul. The 150 Dec is just as fast, on less gas. I only have 30 or so hours in 180 Cubs, but lots of 160 Cub time.

Depends on your mission.

I converted from 150 to 180hp and would not go back. But I mostly fly on floats at altitude often into short lakes. Going to 180 turned the cub in a much better float plane for what I do. For handling, I didn't notice anything different, fuel consumption on cruise is essentially the same, sure the 180 will burn more gas if you are making lots of horse power, but in cruise the numbers were very similar for speed and fuel consumption
 
If the builder/rebuilder is careful with his/her choices, a 180 Cub can be a great airplane. If not, it can indeed be a piglet, as Bob suggested. I've flown at least a few of each flavor.

A relatively light 180 hp Cub is not impossible to achieve.....consider Bill Rusk, who posts on here....I know E/AB vs certified, but, still.....

And, for a tug.....180 hp would certainly be my first, second and third choice.

Finally, if you're going that route, do contact Randy Rubbert. Randy is a true expert on these planes, and has a LOT of experience building and flying them. He is the one who designed one of the 180 hp STCs that's out there.

MTV
 
And, for a tug.....180 hp would certainly be my first, second and third choice.

If it has to be a PA-18 then certainly I'd want the 180. I'd rather be at the front or back of the rope with a Pawnee though. Even better an Ag Wagon but I've only been at the back end with that tug.
 
If it has to be a PA-18 then certainly I'd want the 180. I'd rather be at the front or back of the rope with a Pawnee though. Even better an Ag Wagon but I've only been at the back end with that tug.

I’ve got maybe 12,000 tows in a 150 SuperCub and maybe 1000 in a 250 Pawnee. I still prefer towing with a SuperCub. The other end of the rope doesn’t matter that much, I just hate high tow! Much prefer flying low tow, easier and safer for the guy at both ends. Gen have a couple tows with an AgCat, that was fun!


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I’ve got maybe 12,000 tows in a 150 SuperCub and maybe 1000 in a 250 Pawnee. I still prefer towing with a SuperCub.

How many of those tows were with 15 m or Standard class sailplanes ballasted to max gross at high density altitudes (e,g, desert SW USA) and maybe a 10 kt tail wind? On a contest grid the glider pilots watch the tow plane rotation and have very clear preferences as to which tug they hope to be behind. I always hoped for the Ag Wagon (RIP Scratch Lee). Why a 10 kt tail wind? It takes a long time to move a contest grid of maybe 40-50 gliders to a different runway. Tailwind takeoffs are not that uncommon at major contests if there is a wind shift.

Yes, agree, the Ag Cat is an amazing tug. At one contest I watched a glider pilot screw up the takeoff so badly that I though he was sure to crash. He was well past the point that release should have been instinctive. The Ag Cat pulled it off the ground as though nothing was going wrong despite the fact the glider was going sideways and headed for the weeds.

With a low wing loading glider a weak tow plane can be an advantage. The glider pilot gets to explore a lot larger area on the way up. In a ballasted glider all the pilot wants is a good rate of climb and not to be sinking towards the cactus in a thermal downdraft.

I have been at both ends of the rope with Citabria, Scout, Super Cub, Pawnee, and Callair. Of those the Pawnee is a clear winner in the desert South West. Few clubs can afford to own or operate an Ag Wagon.
 
Towing for a club or business makes great sense if they own a single seat tow plane and there is a good reason for the Pawnee being the most often used. My towing will be a sideline when I am not exploring the grass/dirt runways of TX probably with a friend. Having been in the glider end of contests in the West, I totally agree with you!
 
How many of those tows were with 15 m or Standard class sailplanes ballasted to max gross at high density altitudes (e,g, desert SW USA) and maybe a 10 kt tail wind? On a contest grid the glider pilots watch the tow plane rotation and have very clear preferences as to which tug they hope to be behind. I always hoped for the Ag Wagon (RIP Scratch Lee). Why a 10 kt tail wind? It takes a long time to move a contest grid of maybe 40-50 gliders to a different runway. Tailwind takeoffs are not that uncommon at major contests if there is a wind shift.

Yes, agree, the Ag Cat is an amazing tug. At one contest I watched a glider pilot screw up the takeoff so badly that I though he was sure to crash. He was well past the point that release should have been instinctive. The Ag Cat pulled it off the ground as though nothing was going wrong despite the fact the glider was going sideways and headed for the weeds.

With a low wing loading glider a weak tow plane can be an advantage. The glider pilot gets to explore a lot larger area on the way up. In a ballasted glider all the pilot wants is a good rate of climb and not to be sinking towards the cactus in a thermal downdraft.

I have been at both ends of the rope with Citabria, Scout, Super Cub, Pawnee, and Callair. Of those the Pawnee is a clear winner in the desert South West. Few clubs can afford to own or operate an Ag Wagon.

Lots with ASW20, ASW-24, IS28B2 and quite a few others. I will admit, not very many where they had water on board. Many were 2-33s with 2 on board. Granted, excess HP does a lot for climb and for a contest or commercial operation tows per hour is the name of the game. I just like flying the PA-18 better than the PA-25. I’ve also towed with 150hp Pacers. Climb just about as good as the Cub, but a good 100’ more ground roll.


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