Aircraft Recognition
- Thread starter bcone1381
- Start date
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Curtiss P-36
Web
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Richgj3
BENEFACTOR
LI,NY
Richgj3
BENEFACTOR
LI,NY
Bucker Jungmann or Jungmeister. I get them confused. One is single cockpit the other has two. Siemens Halske engine. Circa mid thirties. Sorry for spelling.
The first photo is most likely a Republic AT-12 Guardsman, which is a 2 seat version of the Seversky P-35. Alexander Kartveli was the chief designer for Seversky and you can see the direct linage from the P-35 to the P-43 Lancer and the P-47 Thunderbolt. The Guardsman is a little longer with extended wings, built for export with 1 sole remaining example that I know of. It's owned by the Planes of Fame Museum in Chino CA. There is a restored example of a P-35 in the NMUSAF in Dayton OH. I've been there and seen it.
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
Waco UPF-7. I owned one of these for a number of years. Wonderful aircraft. Just a dream to fly!
Boy, those two are real similar.
I'm keeping an open mind, but for now sticking with the P-35. This is due in part because Wikipedia showed the P-35 being used by Sweadis air force, and the making by the left tires (that you can't read from the photo but I can from my original 12x16" photo) is in the Swedish language..... tire pressure for aircraft servicing. Also, the canopies are very similar on the two and I see only a canopy that slides back only for the front seat...no other access that I can see for a rear seat.
I'm keeping an open mind, but for now sticking with the P-35. This is due in part because Wikipedia showed the P-35 being used by Sweadis air force, and the making by the left tires (that you can't read from the photo but I can from my original 12x16" photo) is in the Swedish language..... tire pressure for aircraft servicing. Also, the canopies are very similar on the two and I see only a canopy that slides back only for the front seat...no other access that I can see for a rear seat.
Attachments
Sorry, I accidentally deleted my earlier post when I tried to edit it.
The dark biplane looks like a Brunner-Winkle Bird with a much larger Wright engine. The paint looks like it's from the 60's or 70's, like the age of your photos. I believe it could be NC914V, which still has the larger engine and I can find photos from that side showing a match on the cowling details. The newer paint scheme is different though.
The other 2 biplanes are already identified so I won't say anything about those.
I still think the Seversky is the AT-12 Guardsman, which was made for export to Sweden. Only 2 of those 50 or so ordered made it there and the rest were impounded in 1940 and sent to US AAC bases. This AT-12 ended up at Lowery Field in CO and was restored at the Planes of Fame Museum in Chino CA. It's still airworthy I believe. I also believe there were some cowing changes over the years, mainly covering up the nose gun ports. I found a recent inflight photo showing the ports covered.
There are 3 P-35 survivors that I can find. One is restored and is in a museum in Sweden. One was in Sweden and was shipped to the US in 1971, it ended up at the Weeks Museum in FL, and is being restored. The third was in an aviation maintenance school in MN and then was bought by Chuck Doyle, a well known pilot in MN. I don't believe it was ever flyable after the war. It was restored and traded to the USAF in about '69 or so, and now sits in the NMUSAF in Dayton OH.
I wish I could post a photo but I don't think SC.org will let my because I'm not a paying member.
The dark biplane looks like a Brunner-Winkle Bird with a much larger Wright engine. The paint looks like it's from the 60's or 70's, like the age of your photos. I believe it could be NC914V, which still has the larger engine and I can find photos from that side showing a match on the cowling details. The newer paint scheme is different though.
The other 2 biplanes are already identified so I won't say anything about those.
I still think the Seversky is the AT-12 Guardsman, which was made for export to Sweden. Only 2 of those 50 or so ordered made it there and the rest were impounded in 1940 and sent to US AAC bases. This AT-12 ended up at Lowery Field in CO and was restored at the Planes of Fame Museum in Chino CA. It's still airworthy I believe. I also believe there were some cowing changes over the years, mainly covering up the nose gun ports. I found a recent inflight photo showing the ports covered.
There are 3 P-35 survivors that I can find. One is restored and is in a museum in Sweden. One was in Sweden and was shipped to the US in 1971, it ended up at the Weeks Museum in FL, and is being restored. The third was in an aviation maintenance school in MN and then was bought by Chuck Doyle, a well known pilot in MN. I don't believe it was ever flyable after the war. It was restored and traded to the USAF in about '69 or so, and now sits in the NMUSAF in Dayton OH.
I wish I could post a photo but I don't think SC.org will let my because I'm not a paying member.
Regarding the Bird, Thanks for the help. I'll send out this photo I have to the owner of N914V.
What are your thoughts on the P-35 vs AT-12 when comparing these? It looks to me like the AT-12 has larger dimensions than my photo between the LE of the wing and the cowl flaps.
What are your thoughts on the P-35 vs AT-12 when comparing these? It looks to me like the AT-12 has larger dimensions than my photo between the LE of the wing and the cowl flaps.
Attachments
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Your photo comparison between the two makes a compelling argument. I just have a hard time trying to think of a place post war where a P-35 could be on a ramp with a P-38 in the background. It's too bad the photographer didn't write the place and date on the backs of the photos.
I've been a long time fan of the Seversky's P-35 and the Curtiss P-36 fighters. I think they're great looking planes from the pre-war monoplane era.
Seversky's won 1st place the '37, 1st and 2nd place in the '38 and 1st again in the '39 Bendix races, flown by Jackie Cochran and Frank Fuller. Jimmy Doolittle flew a special Seversky ordered for Shell Oil in '37.
In '38 a Seversky was in the movie 'Test Pilot' with Clark Gable, the movie has other classic aircraft throughout. Some of this info is from my Seversky book, 'Sever The Sky'.
I've been a long time fan of the Seversky's P-35 and the Curtiss P-36 fighters. I think they're great looking planes from the pre-war monoplane era.
Seversky's won 1st place the '37, 1st and 2nd place in the '38 and 1st again in the '39 Bendix races, flown by Jackie Cochran and Frank Fuller. Jimmy Doolittle flew a special Seversky ordered for Shell Oil in '37.
In '38 a Seversky was in the movie 'Test Pilot' with Clark Gable, the movie has other classic aircraft throughout. Some of this info is from my Seversky book, 'Sever The Sky'.
Do you want the photo Jim? If so I can send it to you. Its 11x14. My goal in this is to get the photos to folks who have an interest. If you don't take it it will be sent to the owner of a P-35A in Florida....that might be Kermit Weeks. That is the only one registered in the USA right now.
The P-35 is roped off as if its on display at an airshow. Based on some of the other photos I was wondering if some of these might be from early EAA conventions.
The P-35 is roped off as if its on display at an airshow. Based on some of the other photos I was wondering if some of these might be from early EAA conventions.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Web,
That may not be an amphib. That may be "beaching gear", used to get the seaplane into and out of the water, or not.
MTV
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Good point. Does anyone still do that anymore? Or have all the operators gone to trailers/forklifts?
Web
Web
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
They also make for an interesting ampib!
Web
I've seen pictures of that plane in some EDO literature. If you look closely the main wheel is in the center of the float, not beaching gear. The land plane tail wheel is used for land landings which is why the floats are lifted at the tails. I believe the floats move down for water landings, raising the main wheel and changing the angle of the floats. Notice what appears to be a hydraulic strut where a rear strut would be located.
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
Katmai Air uses beaching gear for their straight floated Otter. Beachers are available for their Beavers also. In the Bush at their lodges, a dedicated float mover may not be available for float repairs and such, but beaching gear can be hauled by any of the fleet to the necessary location. The Otter in the photo goes in the hangar on the beachers and lives out the winter on them.
Attachments
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
I wonder what aircraft design might have taken place if WWII had not changed the course of aviation.
Web
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
If the general public only knew what EDO put on floats over the years. I've seen a lot of it in pictures and know there is a lot I haven't seen. They were on Long Island NY which was the birthplace of a lot of aviation history.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
Similar threads
