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Thread: AERO SPORT POWER engine build?

  1. #1

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    AERO SPORT POWER engine build?

    Anyone have Aero Sport Power in Kamloops, BC build/deliver an engine for them in recent years? Considering having them build up an IO-375 for our Legend Cub and am seeking opinions/reviews. J

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    I researched them and all sure sounds good. Seems like the best choice for HP to weight, and 0-375 makes about the same HP as injected version.
    What prop are you considering? constant speed?
    Anxious to hear from users with cub.
    John

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    Yes - constant speed MT 2-blade. 44 lbs + front mount governor.

    Planning on Airflow Perf FI, counter-weighted crank, 7.8:1 pistons and self-exciting P114 E-mags. Aero Sport just did the exact same engine also with a hollow crank and it came out 276lbs with a BC alternator.
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    spinner2's Avatar
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    I have an O-340 they built. In 2020 the cylinders needed some attention and they were very good to work with. Pricing was reasonable and delivered when they said they would.

    Curious what they quoted you for the O-375, both dollars and time? I'm researching engines now for a new project too.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp
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  5. #5

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    ~46K; approx 12 mo.

    fuel injected stroked 375 engine with cold sump, some lightweight mods, E-mags

    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    I have an O-340 they built. In 2020 the cylinders needed some attention and they were very good to work with. Pricing was reasonable and delivered when they said they would.

    Curious what they quoted you for the O-375, both dollars and time? I'm researching engines now for a new project too.
    Likes Olibuilt liked this post

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    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    I've only heard good about AeroSportPower.

    Last time I talked to AeroSportPower, they told me the 375 crankshaft was backorder. So I looked are more options.


    AC Aero looks good on paper:

    "We can recondition your existing Lycoming 360 engine and convert to a 409ci. The Legion™ 409 produce 228hp.
    409 engine using AC-Aero Components:

      • Same foot print as the O-360 Parallel valve engine, so no additional costs associated with motor mount changes, cowling change, exhaust, etc.
      • Uses Standard bore Lycoming or Lycoming clone 0-360 wide deck cylinders (or for additional costs, lightened Cylinders [- ~ 8lbs]).
      • New AC-Aero counterweighted stroker crankshaft, new light weight rods, pistons, rings, wrist pins, clips, and conrod bearings. Although Pistons and conrods are lighter, the stroker crank is heavier. The combined components increase engine weight by about 19 lbs ( light weight cylinders could reduce that increase by 8lbs for a total increase of 11 lbs).
      • We recommend using piston oil squirters to help transfer heat from increased horsepower into the oil to better keep CHT under control (therefore, we recommend a larger oil cooler).
      • Although ASAP is fine with carbureted engines, ASAP recommends a custom intake to ensure that horsepower gains are realized.

  7. #7
    aeroaddict's Avatar
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    I believe Cub Crafters used Aero Sport to build their CC340 engines. My EX-2 has the Aero Sport built CC340. Wouldn't think Cub Crafters would risk their reputation by going with the 'lowest bidder' or a company that can't support their customers with a quality product.
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    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    call Vera at cubcrafters, they had a low time O-375 for sale last time I called, I think they wanted like 28K

    https://store.cubcrafters.com/Used-S...c_141-1-2.html

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    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    They run Hot from what I understand with limited knowledge. I would have considered it anyway for my 4 place cub if it was not a conical mount.
    Last edited by Mauleguy; 03-04-2022 at 11:05 AM.

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    We're using Dynafocal mount & hollow crank...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mauleguy View Post
    They run Hot from what I understand with limited knowledge. I would have considered it anyway for my 4 place cub if it was not a conical mount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyR View Post
    Yes - constant speed MT 2-blade. 44 lbs + front mount governor.

    Planning on Airflow Perf FI, counter-weighted crank, 7.8:1 pistons and self-exciting P114 E-mags. Aero Sport just did the exact same engine also with a hollow crank and it came out 276lbs with a BC alternator.
    Check out the lightweight flywheel set up that Aerosport can use. Assume you are wanting to use car gas with the low compression? Looses quite a bit of power there from what I have read, maybe 185HP?

    Wish we had some guys who have them giving us real info. If they do run hot? Is that with the tapered Continental ( 1 lb per cylinder less weight than Lycoming)nickel lined cylinders? Is it fact run hot, or?
    Hoping for user feedback on these motors.
    John?
    Thanks #JoeM8848 thanked for this post

  12. #12

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    titanium Sky Dynamics fly wheel

    A true 195 hp is what's expected, per Aero Sport's experience/opinion. I don't think it will run hot with the lower compression pistons and big oil cooler.

    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    Check out the lightweight flywheel set up that Aerosport can use. Assume you are wanting to use car gas with the low compression? Looses quite a bit of power there from what I have read, maybe 185HP?

    Wish we had some guys who have them giving us real info. If they do run hot? Is that with the tapered Continental ( 1 lb per cylinder less weight than Lycoming)nickel lined cylinders? Is it fact run hot, or?
    Hoping for user feedback on these motors.
    John?

  13. #13
    tedwaltman1's Avatar
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    I have Aero Sport IO-375, Dynafocal, e mags, Airflow Performance system with purge valve. Runs great albeit hot.

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    Thanks, Ted. What pistons, and what's running hot? Oil, CHT's? If oil, what cooler(s) do you have? Oil squirt system?
    I wonder why Aero Sport is telling me that they want to build it with the Airflow Perf engine driven fuel pump but no purge valve.
    Here's AFP's purge valve manual Microsoft Word - Purge Valve Manual 8-28-07.doc (airflowperformance.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by tedwaltman1 View Post
    I have Aero Sport IO-375, Dynafocal, e mags, Airflow Performance system with purge valve. Runs great albeit hot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tedwaltman1 View Post
    I have Aero Sport IO-375, Dynafocal, e mags, Airflow Performance system with purge valve. Runs great albeit hot.
    Where do you find it runs hot, down low, or? Did you run an 0-360 before this? Just wondered how you felt it performs compared to 0-360. More torque, or how do you see it? What is it in?
    Thanks.

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    The newest API servo is zero leak-down, so no purge valve is suggested. The engine-driven pump is likely a Tempest. You’ll also need an electric high pressure pump and API makes a nice one.

    I don’t know a lot of IO-375 guys but those I have talked to all say they run hot. All are in SQs, so as Ted will testify, the cowl may be part of the problem. Rick Ness struggles with temps in an o-320 in that cowl. The recent SQ-types I’ve seen run angle valve engines and the cowl has morphed. Not without cause.
    Last edited by stewartb; 03-04-2022 at 10:05 PM.
    Thanks JohnnyR thanked for this post

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    If you are worried (as you should be) about trying to control cylinder and oil temps in an air cooled engine, removing any heat dissipation fin surface from the cylinder (tapered Continental) does not sound right to me. Just Saying!!
    DENNY

  18. #18
    stewartb's Avatar
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    FWIW, with my Cub’s 2 engines? Compression has zero influence on CHT but makes a significant difference in oil temps.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyR View Post
    I wonder why Aero Sport is telling me that they want to build it with the Airflow Perf engine driven fuel pump but no purge valve.
    Here's AFP's purge valve manual Microsoft Word - Purge Valve Manual 8-28-07.doc (airflowperformance.com)
    Thank you for this, now I understand what the purge valve is all about. It appears it is used to cover for pilots who do not understand Lycoming's recommended hot start procedures. Yes, if you don't understand what that is, you will tear your hair out attempting to start a hot fuel injected Lycoming. If you do understand Lycoming's procedure you will seldom have difficulties with hot starts.

    That being said, perhaps the engine driven diaphragm pump contributes to the difficulties? All of the engines which I've operated had the gear Romec pump.

    I can go into a long dissertation, to keep it short you shut down with the mixture, leave the mixture in idle cut off position, and then start the engine with the mixture STILL in idle cut off and with the aux fuel pump running. FUEL WILL NOT BE FLOWING. AFTER the engine starts and before it starts to quit ..... modulate the mixture control towards rich. IF you PUSH the mixture rich, you will flood the engine and it WILL stop. Now you are in for it.

    I wish I knew this procedure when I was told to check myself out in my first fuel injected Lycoming, the 400 Comanche. It went like this: "Take the 400 Comanche to Flushing to pick up so&so." Off I went. (What a nice plane, though a fuel hog)
    N1PA

  20. #20
    stewartb's Avatar
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    From Airflow Performance’s purge valve manual. Until they released the 200A servo they recommended purge valves for all installations. Not any more. I asked more than once when working on my engine. I haven’t had any problem with flooding. I’ll also add that flood starts are very simple with my Pmags/automotive plugs, and I presume other EI systems. When in doubt for hot starting? Prime it like it’s cold. Fires right up every time.


    Modern light aircraft fuel injection systems are of the low pressure constant flow type. Fuel is metered and is delivered to air bled nozzles which atomize and spray the fuel at each intake valve. Airflow Performance and Bendix fuel injection systems meter fuel to the engine based on engine air consumption. The fuel regulator in both these types of injection systems do not return any fuel to the tank, therefore only the fuel that is used by the engine flows through the fuel controller. Vapor in these types of metering systems causes the fuel regulator to operate erratically and poor engine performance will result. This is usually evident during hot restarts. Hot restart problems are a typical complaint of pilots operating fuel injected engines. After engine shut down heat in the cowling and engine tends to boil the fuel in the fuel control, fuel pump and related fuel metering components. Some of the fuel expands in the nozzle lines and gets forced through the injection nozzles and into the engine. This leaves hot fuel and fuel vapor through out the complete fuel metering system, engine driven fuel pump included. During an attempted start under this condition usually results in the engine starting for a moment then quitting. The pilot is then faced with decision of how to proceed with the start procedure. Flooding the engine then cranking the engine until it starts is usually done. This procedure is dependent upon battery life which sometimes expires before the engine starts. Engines which use the high pressure diaphragm fuel pump, experience another problem which influences the ease of restarting the engine. By their design the diaphragm fuel pump acts like an accumulator when the engine is shut down. This keeps fuel pressure on the fuel controller, and leakage in the idle cut off circuit of the fuel controller will allow the fuel to bleed off into the engine. This can cause run on in idle cut off and flooding of the engine initially after shut down. All Airflow Performance, Inc. fuel injection systems come with the purge valve as standard equipment typically installed as an assembly on the flow divider or purge valve. In addition to the above operational issues with this type of injection system, Airflow Performance fuel controls incorporate a rotary mixture control valve. Due to the inherent design of the rotary valve the device does not give zero leakage at ICO. Therefore even though the engine may shut down using the mixture control the purge valve will give a clean ICO under all circumstances.
    Last edited by stewartb; 03-05-2022 at 08:57 AM.

  21. #21

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    Can those with the 0-375/IO-375 give us the power, real feel difference if they had an 0-360 before? Just wondering what the slight stroke does for power/torque compared to the 0-360.
    Thanks.

  22. #22
    tedwaltman1's Avatar
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    Here are the specs on my engine as ordered. I did not have an O-360 prior of course, so I can't compare to one of those...

    At today's prices, I wish I had ordered two engines!

    Aero Sport Power Ltd. New IO-375 (195 HP) Vertical Induction Engine Includes:
    ECI Nickel Carbide Cylinders with Tapered Barrel Fins, Dual P-Mags with Auto Harness, Spark Plugs, Sky-Tec 12 volt Light Weight Inline Starter, Lamar 40 Amp Internally Regulated Alternator, FM150 Airflow Performance Fuel Injection, AFP Electric Boost Pump and Filter, Mechanical Fuel Pump, Piston Cooling Nozzles, Camshaft and Lifters, Vertical Induction Sump, Connecting Rods, Balanced Hollow Crankshaft, Dynafocal Type 1 Crankcase, Ring Gear, Inter-Cylinder Baffles, Dipstick and Tube, Vernatherm, 90 Degree Spin on Oil Filter Adapter and Vacuum Pump Adapter Housing. Engine painted yellow.

  23. #23
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    If you are worried (as you should be) about trying to control cylinder and oil temps in an air cooled engine, removing any heat dissipation fin surface from the cylinder (tapered Continental) does not sound right to me. Just Saying!!
    DENNY
    Denny, The tapered diameter cylinder fins is recent (in the lifetime of our engine's design). Consider this: The heat is produced at the cylinder head where the explosion takes place. Thus the cylinder heads are the hottest pieces of metal with the greatest amount of cooling fin area. Also the aluminum dissipates heat quicker than steel. The portion of the cylinder which is next to the crankcase sees the least amount of the heat, 200+ degrees less. With that in mind, it stands to reason the portion of the cylinder where the heat is the hottest would require the most heat dissipation capability. That portion of the cylinder next to the crankcase would require very little in comparison. Over their lifetimes, cylinders get distorted due to heat and wear. By tapering the diameter of the cooling fins the heat dissipation and cylinder wall temperature is more evenly controlled. The (old) style cylinders had excessive cooling near the bases which could have created heat stresses in the cylinder walls.

    I consider the tapered cylinder cooling fins to be a positive advancement in cylinder design.
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    If you are worried (as you should be) about trying to control cylinder and oil temps in an air cooled engine, removing any heat dissipation fin surface from the cylinder (tapered Continental) does not sound right to me. Just Saying!!
    DENNY
    Think Continental added larger fins on the head area to compensate for tapered barrels. Think I read it somewhere, maybe someone knows the details.
    Actually just found the info, most heat is dissipated at the head, the barrel fins were never tapered, just same size mainly for manufacturing ease.
    John
    Last edited by john schwamm; 03-05-2022 at 12:06 PM.
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  25. #25
    spinner2's Avatar
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    Johnny have you looked at all the constant speed props? Stewart suggested the Whirl Wind 200 A in another thread. Looks pretty good at 12 K plus 1K and change for governor. And good performance from what I’ve heard.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  26. #26
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    Johnny have you looked at all the constant speed props? Stewart suggested the Whirl Wind 200 A in another thread. Looks pretty good at 12 K plus 1K and change for governor. And good performance from what I’ve heard.
    The Whirl Wind 200A hollow carbon fiber blades are terrific efficient pullers.
    N1PA

  27. #27
    stewartb's Avatar
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    A friend and neighbor tried a 200A on a 360 and switched to an MT. He says the MT is better on that engine. Better pull and smoother. My nephew had a 200A on a hot-rodded 360 and it worked well. Whirl Wind tells us that the 200A works great if you have the power to spin it. 200hp is on the low side, or so they used to say. The new website has some interesting specs. The max compression recommended for a 390 is less than 10-1. Pmag B curve is prohibited. Interesting. I guess I need to make a phone call.

    The extremely aggressive airfoil of the thin, foam core blade 80” 200A is our most dynamic blade to-date and pulls the hardest of this family, provided enough horsepower is behind it.
    From the ops manual-

    The 200A Series is a two-blade hydraulically controlled constant speed propeller system designed for aircrafts using a modified Lycoming IO-360, -375 and -390 engines producing greater than 200 HP.
    Last edited by stewartb; 03-06-2022 at 11:37 AM.

  28. #28
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    My 180 hp IO-360 has no trouble spinning the Whirlwind 200G. Same blades.
    N1PA

  29. #29
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Same blades as the 200G-CS. I’m pretty sure the 200A blades are different.

  30. #30

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    How does Hartzell Trailblazer compare?

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    From the ops manual-
    The 200A Series is a two-blade hydraulically controlled constant speed propeller system designed for aircrafts using a modified Lycoming IO-360, -375 and -390 engines producing greater than 200 HP.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Same blades as the 200G-CS. I’m pretty sure the 200A blades are different.
    That is interesting as their website states: " Lycoming IO-320**, -360, -375 or -390 engines (160-240 hp)." They also say this which appears a bit contradictory: "The extremely aggressive airfoil of the thin, foam core blade 80” 200A is our most dynamic blade to-date and pulls the hardest of this family, provided enough horsepower is behind it." https://www.whirlwindaviation.com/pr...LGCSseries.asp

    Also I was misinformed, the blades are not hollow they are filled with foam.
    N1PA

  32. #32
    stewartb's Avatar
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    It appears they discontinued the 200G-CS. That filled the gap between the 284 and 200A. It looks like they’re more into the RV segment these days.

    The 200A has more chord than any prop I’ve seen on a small airplane.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by stewartb; 03-06-2022 at 02:01 PM.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It appears they discontinued the 200G-CS. That filled the gap between the 284 and 200A. It looks like they’re more into the RV segment these days.

    The 200A has more chord than any prop I’ve seen on a small airplane.
    Would the IO-375 have enough to pull this prop? Know how the Hartzell Trailblazer compares?

  34. #34
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It appears they discontinued the 200G-CS. That filled the gap between the 284 and 200A. It looks like they’re more into the RV segment these days.

    The 200A has more chord than any prop I’ve seen on a small airplane.
    For comparison this is the 77" diameter 200G Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	60455 A bit blurry 8-1/2"
    N1PA

  35. #35
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    Know how the Hartzell Trailblazer compares?
    My Trailblazer has a maximum chord of 7.25 inch. That's for the 80 inch version. Don't know if the 83 inch has a bigger chord.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    My Trailblazer has a maximum chord of 7.25 inch. That's for the 80 inch version. Don't know if the 83 inch has a bigger chord.
    Anyone know how the Hartzell Trailblazer prop would do on the _0-375-IO-375? Say about 1400lb empty weight aircraft.
    Thanks.
    John

  37. #37
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    Anyone know how the Hartzell Trailblazer prop would do on the _0-375-IO-375? Say about 1400lb empty weight aircraft.
    Thanks.
    John
    Cubcrafters uses the Trailblazer on the CC363i (YIO-360) powered FX-3 and on the XCub with either O-360 or CC393i. It performs well on my FX-3. The only concern I have is the cost of replacement blades.

    My FX-3 has a much lower empty weight than you are proposing but not sure of the typical weight of the XCub.

  38. #38
    jrussl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    Anyone know how the Hartzell Trailblazer prop would do on the _0-375-IO-375? Say about 1400lb empty weight aircraft.
    Thanks.
    John
    Husky’s come with Trailblazer props on both the 180 and 200 hp models. Their weights are often in your range. From what I hear, they perform very well.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

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