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Mogas/Compression

I’ll be saving $134.75 (based on current prices this week) per 55 gallon (full tanks) fill up

MoGas is a no brainer for me

I can live with the 5hp loss for my engine being built for MoGas

Edited to add: The above is for 91UL non-ethonal
 
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That's about the same per-gallon savings I see,
buying locally-available 87 octane e-zero mogas vs 100LL at my home airport.
 
Are you referring to Fuel as Gas or Jet fuel. I question this since most Jet fuel is shipped by Pipeline.

I was referring to Av Gas - and I apologize for the incorrect nomenclature. The jet world is so far from my aviation experience that my mind doesn't even consider it.

Regarding Jet Fuel going via Pipeline, that must be a new thing or regional. I know in the 90's none of the pipelines coming into the Atlanta ( Doraville) area carried Jet Fuel. It was really quite a big issue too, as the current truck driver shortage began of course in the "Suicide Wagon" industry. Suicide Wagon is what we drivers used to call gas tankers. The job paid terribly, usually required deliveries in places God never intended a truck to go and bad working hours. Oh, and it was high risk. Many times I couldn't get Av Gas until the airlines got all theirs delivered. I understood it, but it was a scheduling consideration.

I'd be interested in details of jet fuel pipeline practice. Back in the day they were told since it had to be trucked from the line head to the airport anyway, there was no value to dedicating a line for it. Additionally at the time, Mo Gas demand was incredible and growing. So where is the line head there in the Northeast? Or have lines been constructed direct to Airports?
 
I made my comments after having a conversation with the fuels manager for the company that imports all 100LL into Alaska. He thinks this transition will never happen. He made a pretty good case for why. Ultimately I'll just go with the flow whichever way it works out. I can adapt.


If the EPA weren't involved and the political climate were different, I might agree with him. These days though, because our fuel has the word "lead" associated with it, the fear and paranoia machine that is current society WILL have it done away with. I only see two options and I don't think most folks care which one happens. One is we get new "friendly" fuel to use - price be damned. The other option is we don't and we can't fly. I truly believe that the American public couldn't care less - unless they hate us for being rich. The only real option for us is a new fuel. Being an optimist I'll continue to function with that assumption until proven wrong.
 
So where is the line head there in the Northeast? Or have lines been constructed direct to Airports?
Direct to airport. Airport has enough storage just a temper the flow. Gasoline is piped to depots, trucks transport to stations. Around here all brands pull their gas from the same depot. Ethanol is loaded on the truck last as it is leaving for it's route. If I am correct the truck blends the fuel at the station as it delivers.
For our electric power generation stations, their LNG is piped directly to them as well as to the depots for distribution to home & industry. Same with heavy oil. Many regions such as around cities the homes get their utility gas direct from the main feed.

Maps of all the pipelines can or used to be found online, it is almost frightening how many underground lines are hidden under the dirt.
 
I expect there would be an awful lot of mechanical noise to program circuitry to filter out.
 
Direct to airport.

Makes Sense. Glad they finally got that done.



[/QUOTE]Around here all brands pull their gas from the same depot. [/QUOTE]

Same as back in the day. Everybody in the region was selling the same gas regardless of the brand. [/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]If I am correct the truck blends the fuel at the station as it delivers.[/QUOTE]

We never used to, but we've already established that my experience is out of date. I'm not willing to take that job again just to find out how it's done now.

Thanks for the information.
 
Denny's comment about a knock sensor made me laugh out loud because as I was reading through all this my thoughts were to those of us who have to use staged/stored gas that can sit for months. Long term stable storage of lower octane fuels is going to be a real issue for folks in the boonies. Lowering octane also lowers the length of time gasoline stays stable (forming gums, varnishes, and lower octane hydrocarbons). 87 octane gasoline starts to degrade after about three months; 93 closer to nine months. Our Beavers ran fine on 100ll that had been stored in full, tight 55g drums for 3-4 years.

Octane numbers can be thought of as "anti-knock indexes," where the higher the number the more heat and pressure can be put on the fuel before it spontaneously combusts. I suppose we can start adding MMT and stabilizers to our lower octane fuel to compensate. Proper storage helps a lot: Race Fuel Storage - Sunoco Race Fuels

I'm putting 7.8:1 pistons in my IO360 build to head off problems before they develop.
 
Sunoco agrees that stabilized fuel can go at least 2 years. I kept switching into a mostly unused full rear tank (for CG) for 3 years before I noticed high EGT's. This tank was translucent white under a wraparound rear window, so it had some UV degradation too. 91E0. Should G100UL last as long as 100LL considering octane alone?
 
I don’t have any scientific evidence, but my limited experience for the folks storing semi-bulk mogas is that marine sta-bil works pretty good for a year or so.

The red stuff didn’t last as long in my motorcycle (the addition of kids to our house made that thing a lot more stationary than it was before).
 
Over the years, prior to ethanol in gas, I had numerous issues with auto gas which sat for a period of time in things like lawn mowers, generators etc. So now I only use avgas in everything. I have never had an issue with avgas which has been stored for extended periods of time. My lawnmower is 30+ years old and has always used 100 avgas. It always starts on the first pull in the spring and has never let me down. Can anyone give a 100% thumbs up for ethanol auto gas? Until I get positive feedback on the "new" auto gas, I'll stick with 100LL for everything. Yes the avgas is expensive (over $6) ,,, but trouble free. At my age, I don't need troubles.
 
I don’t have any scientific evidence, but my limited experience for the folks storing semi-bulk mogas is that marine sta-bil works pretty good for a year or so.

The red stuff didn’t last as long in my motorcycle (the addition of kids to our house made that thing a lot more stationary than it was before).

Agree on marine stabil. I start my Honda generator about once every five years with the same old stabilized gas in it. Usually two pulls. I have been buying husqvarnas premix canned fuel for chainsaws and running it in all my little two strokes. They are all running better than ever. Expensive? Heck yes but it sure made a difference.

Not sure about stabil in an airplane..

sj


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
Agree on marine stabil. I start my Honda generator about once every five years with the same old stabilized gas in it. Usually two pulls. I have been buying husqvarnas premix canned fuel for chainsaws and running it in all my little two strokes. They are all running better than ever. Expensive? Heck yes but it sure made a difference.

Not sure about stabil in an airplane..

sj


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app

I think you’re the one that told me about the marine stabil!

I haven’t used it in the plane though. Around the time I was ready to try, the 91 e0 prices near me climbed to within a few cents of 100LL at the cheapest airport so I started running a gas again.

At the current prices, I need to pull my fuel trailer back out of storage and start hunting for good local e0.
 
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