Thanks: 
Likes: "We will be using ATR-FP-251F1 almost exclusively on the 4S (I think)."
For front floorboards too?
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
"We will be using ATR-FP-251F1 almost exclusively on the 4S (I think)."
For front floorboards too?
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1
Kydex .pdf weight chart
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp
Seat weights:
I am thinking of going with two Cessna seats on a Cessna track. The weight difference seems to be minor from my weight notes. But if someone reading this knows better, please comment. A front articulating seat from my Cessna with Airtex cushions weighs 13.5 pounds. I'm not sure what tracks weigh, perhaps two pounds per side? I looked at the old W&B from my former PA-18 and have the front seat weight at 12.5 pounds with cushions (I think they were Cub Crafters cushions). But I don't think this Cub seat weight includes the base. Perhaps someone can correct me on this? I no longer own the Cub.
The nice thing about Cessna seats is they easily slide back and forth, are made as a folder, and slide off of the track very easily if not needed or wanted. And they're comfortable IMO.
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt EarpDENNY liked this post
Dan - Thank you for posting the information about Kydex, and also the idea of the Cessna seats. I think there is a lot of merit to that. You would probably want Jay to weld in some tabs to attach the rails to, so that you would have a more secure system rather than simply bolting the rails to the floorboard. But I’m sure you already know that and thought of it.
DJ - Yes, think that right now. You really don't "stand" on the front floor. At least in a cub, so not as much weight is concentrated in a small area. I used the 2ply on the front floor of my current cub and I am thinking it was probably over kill. We will try the single ply and if I don't like it, we can change to the two ply. But my gut feeling is it will be fine. But as someone pointed out, the single ply might "dent" easier, ie a rock stuck to the bottom of a boot, or a dropped tool like an ax, hammer, etc. It is all a trade off.
Getting started on the paint booth. Man materials are expensive right now. Painfully so. But it’s the price I pay for my own quirks and personality flaws. I just don’t like a plastic/visqueen booth. As I said before, it takes the very best for me to get an average job. And I will probably use it for several projects, and perhaps to help my neighbors a little bit. I’m not much of a painter but if I can help a neighbor, fellow builder, I will try.
One thing I noticed about single ply CF with a honeycomb core is that you can see light through it…i.e. liquid passes through it/into it, at least the stuff I used for seat bottoms & backs. Something to consider, especially if you’re going to be on floats.
That depends on what fabric was used in the layup, Not all weaves are that way, and if the fabric is wetted out properly it will be air tight.Originally Posted by Mr. Ed
Folks
A quick update
Brad spoke at length to Stein Bruch of SteinAir. https://www.steinair.com If you are not familiar with this name you should be. They are one of the premier avionics shops for homebuilders. They do a LOT of avionics sales and custom panels for experimental types especially the Vans RV group. They have helped several Javron Cub guys. They are in the Minneapolis area and are knowledgeable of Javron Cubs. At any rate, they will be doing Brads panel. Going with the G3X system. Brad sent a deposit to get in the que. We are expecting a Sept or Oct time frame. Everyone is backed up right now so to keep the project moving forward we have to order stuff in advance to account for the lead times.
This is the panel they did for Mark Fiedlers Cub.
Brad has also decided to have Jay DeRosier build the engine with the help of Lycon. 0-370 with all the bells and whistles at 9-1 compression ratio. We expect to be a little over 200Hp with a weight about 270 pounds. More to follow on both the above decisions.
Hope this helps
Bill
Last edited by Bill Rusk; 04-04-2022 at 10:36 AM.
Very Blessed.
I have know Stein for years, he is well respected in the RV community. I sent him a blank panel, and he cut it out, covered it with a carbon fiber overlay, and silkscreened it. I also purchased the avionics from him. I did the wiring myself, but he will do that too. I was very happy with his service, but there are lead times.
Sorry about the tilted picture, I was getting bounced around.
John
Bill Rusk thanked for this post
Bill,
Any updates on the project? I’m interested to see how the plane is coming together.
Joe
Bill,
I occasionally make trips to Sandpoint to visit a buddy and would love to stop in to see your project. I too will be ordering a 4 place cub in the very near future, however I still haven't decided between Airframes Alaska or Javron. I think seeing your project and getting a closer look will help make the decision that much easier.
Cheers!
Despite manufacturing, shipping, global material shortage and inflation issues. If Jay can keep costs relatively moderated I think the decision becomes quite clear. The Airframes fuse was ballpark $21,000. It is now $32,000. To be fair, I do not know of Javron's price adjustments if any.
Last edited by Tgskillskill; 08-04-2022 at 12:16 PM.
Gents (and Ladies)
I am really sorry that I have not updated recently. I do have a fair amount of progress to report just as soon as I have 20 seconds to myself. Been super ultra busy. I have spent the last couple of days in the shop with Jay DeRosier working on some design issues which I will talk about when I have a moment.
tgatherer- I would love to have a visit. shoot me a PM with your contact info and I will respond.
Standby for updates in the next few days
Bill
I am looking forward to this thread. If things go according to plan, I will be on the list for one myself.
"Always looking up"
Bill,
Looking forward to this as a first time builder. My kit is done and I got my first look at Jays finished product at Oshkosh. I'll be spending a couple weeks with Jay over the next couple months. Then it will be shipped to Ohio for me to finish. I'll be following your build closely. Thanks.
Herman
Herman,
Welcome to the Javron 4 seater family!
I should get my kit late September, early October.
Bill,
Very interested in the design changes you and Jay discussed.
Tom
Folks
Wow, time seems to just fly by. Pardon the pun, (groan) but it has been a very busy summer.
I spent 50 days in Alaska. Stayed in the cabins 34 nights. Stayed in 19 different cabins. Logged 94 flight hours. Had two new visitors and 5 friends total in the cabins.
Three cubs, 2 are Javron, one a CC top Cub. On floats in Alaska at a Forest Service Cabin. It was a fun summer.
Here is a video of 3 cubs in Alaska. I will try to do a couple of more videos when I have time. I got a lot of footage this year, just need to edit and put it together. Time.....just not enough time....
Then I flew to Oshkosh, then the upper Peninsula of Michigan, then to Brainerd to work on the 4S fuselage, and had to work in there as well. Then in a few days I will head to the Greenville fly-in in Maine, and finally get my Cub back to Sandpoint in the latter part of September.
As I look back on my other thread I have no idea how I found the time to do all that. I have been going in full afterburner since about the first of April.
So......enough of my issues......lets talk cubs..
There is sooo much info on "how to cover" on Youtube that I will not go over that here. We are using Airtech and there are TONS of videos at the Airtech channel.
The tail surfaces, flaps and ailerons are covered, stitched, taped, and ready for primer. Working on getting the wings ready for cover now. I anticipate Brad can start covering one of the wings this evening.
Although the wings are pretty much built there is still a fair amount of work that must be done prior to cover.
1) Install position/strobe light mounts. We fabricated ours. You can find info on how we did this in my other thread. (You can also order premade mounts from Jay, saves time and they are beautiful)
2) install the wires for the pos/strobe lights
3) install Landing Lights (often shortened to just LL)
4) run the wires for the LL
5) install pitot tube
6) run pitot tube lines
7) install magnetometer (if doing electronic flight display)
8 ) run magnetometer wire
9) put in flap bellcrank access cover
10) cover the wing tip LE fairing
11) install aileron servo
12) install aileron cable and tie it off
13) Install the pocket pieces at the strut attach points
Last Pre-Cover checklist
1) Check every inch for sharp edges
2) Use an air nozzle to clean out all drill chips and other debries
3) Clean any and all ink off - it WILL bleed through
4) Safety wire the tank bay rib
5) Don't drill the landing light trim piece until after cover and paint
there may be others....if you guys see something I am missing please let me know. I will get a little breakfast and elaborate on the above some.
Hope this helps
Bill
And a little 15 second teaser video. This is Mark's recently completed Javron Cub on Wip 2100A floats on a lake in Alaska that you can only get to by floatplane.
Last edited by Bill Rusk; 01-28-2023 at 11:35 AM.
Very Blessed.
Folks
Lets talk about the above list one by one.
1) Wingtip light mounts......you can order some from Javron or build your own. Here is a link to my other thread on how I built my own mounts.
https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...l=1#post598590
I like to use the Aveo Ultra Daylight lights, but the Javron wingtip mount fits the Powerburst NXT light which is a different shape. Soooo.....
if you order the mount from Javron make sure you buy the right light. I think you can get both from Javron and thus ensure they are matched.
2) Wires - you can run the wires for the wingtip lights shielded or not. I (and others) have used non shielded and had no problems. Shielded is heavier, but it does bundle nice. Also you will need 4 wires if you want to make all your strobes go off at the same time. I have not been able to find ANY data that indicates that synchronized strobes enhance visibility. My own personal observation makes me believe the unsynchronized strobes are more visible. So I just run three wires. Saves weight too.
I like to use these grommets from McMaster Carr for wires, pitot lines etc. They are super light and easy to install. They come in several sizes.
The part number is 5269T12 or 5269T14 so you can look them up. Pretty simple. Drill the hole with a step drill, clean up the edges, and snap the grommet in.3) Landing lights - We looked at a number of options and companies and felt like the Baha Designs Squadron Pro was still the best option.
https://www.bajadesigns.com/products...ary-light-pod/
There are brighter lights out there but you also need to look at the amp draw. I do not want to have to put a 60 amp alternator on the front of the engine just to drive the lights. Also, some of the newer high intensity lights will auto reduce as they heat up. The companies don't like to admit this, but it happens and is an issue. You pay for a 60,000 lumen light but you may only be getting 30,000 lumen most of the time. Just a heads up for you to research and consider.
Brad did a little science experiment to see how large the LL lens needed to be. The lens Jay sells is about 17 inches wide. But the angle the light comes out at does not require this wide an opening. So we were able to cut down the size and width of the LL cavity and lens thus saving weight. Our lens is now about 10" wide.
A die grinder and a cut off wheel will work great for cutting the LE out. Go slow. and remember to drill a hole at each corner and cut into the hole.
You can see the corner holes here. Square corners crack so you want to have a nice radius on each corner.
The finished cut out.
The Squadron Pro light
Showing the size of the cut out
Then we will rivet in the channels that hold the lens in place. This is all pretty thin material so you will be dimpling the holes and using flush rivets.
When you are done the lens should lay in pretty close to flush with the leading edge. It is not proud of the LE, and it does not sit "on" the LE.
After you trim (cut to fit) the lens be sure to sand the edges nice and smooth to reduce stress risers and prevent cracking. Get rid of all your "tool marks".
Next we need to put in nut plates to hold the trip piece that covers the lens edges. You can see some just laying on top as we talk about where to locate them. You need about 4 across the top and bottom edges and three along the sides.
Here you can see the trim piece and the screw locations.
With the landing light installed. You will have to make a mount for the light. Use a piece of .025 and bend a couple of edges to make it stiffer (or you can rivet a 90* piece to make it stiffer, you can see my rivets in the photo) then cut it out so there is a tab on each corner, then pop rivet those tabs to the ribs on either side of the LL bay. If you look closely you can see the clecos where the tabs are going to be riveted to the ribs.
Lots of ways to do all this, but this is just one idea. I think Javron also sells a light install kit but I think it is heavier than this method.
Hope this helps
Bill
Last edited by Bill Rusk; 09-03-2022 at 08:43 PM.
Very Blessed.
I'll be getting mine shorty after yours. I'd love to chat and get progress updates as you move along.
I edited and added to the post above
4) Install landing light wires. Pretty straight forward. Two wires....red and black. 18 gauge will be fine for LED lights. I prefer to run these through separate grommets than the wingtip wires. Makes it easier if you have to replace a wire. When you get to the tank bay you may want to run the wires in a plastic tube/sleeve and I use the screws holding the LE on to hold a couple of clips (made from .020) to hold the wires in place. It may also help to separate the magnetometer and other wires as much as possible. In this photo you can see the magnetometer bundle (black sleeved wire) running at the top of the spar cap and the other wires, and pitot lines, at the bottom of the cap (wing is upside down). Eventually they all run together down the door post so you can't separate them all the way, but as much as possible.....
We will add some more holders to keep the wires in place.
5) Install pitot tube
You have a couple of options. The lightest and simplest is to have Jay weld a tube into the jury strut. Light and simple. This is what I did.
But if you are going with a glass set up and you want AOA info you may have to run two lines and install the fancy Garmin pitot tube. The advantage is "AOA is EVERYTHING" and that is how an airplane flies. So having an AOA indicator can be very helpful. The Garmin install manual has instructions on where to mount the pitot tube. You may also want to heat it if you seriously.... PLAN..... to fly IFR. It does add a pound or so more weight if you want the AOA function.
I am assisting/mentoring Brad with his build. This is HIS airplane built to HIS mission. He wanted AOA. Thus we are doing the AOA pitot probe.
Build YOUR perfect airplane to fit your mission.
Brad riveted the mount to the rib just outside the jury strut, and screwed it to the spar cap.
bend the edges down for extra strength.
6) Run the pitot lines. I don't have a picture for this but I will try to describe it. With the Garmin mount you will attach the pitot lines after covering and paint, so they will be sticking out during the covering and painting part. Once attached the lines will need to be pulled into the wing. I recommend you test this before cover and determine how far to pull these lines in (from the wing root) and then mark the line. If you pull it too hard or too far you could kink the lines. So by marking the line you will know just how far to pull it to get a nice curve in the line without getting a kink in it.
7) Install the magnetometer.
If you are going glass you will need to mount the mag before covering the wing. Garmin has a mount but Jay also set one up in CAD and it fits very nice. This will be mounted into the spar web. I DO NOT like drilling into the spar web and recommend you do it as little as possible. But if you must be sure the holes you make are round and clean. A drill bit does not make a round or clean hole. Drill undersize and ream up. Now you have a round hole. Smooth the edges as much as possible to reduce stress risers. Pop rivet it in.
Last edited by Bill Rusk; 09-04-2022 at 07:21 AM.
Very Blessed.
8 ) Run the magnetometer wires
We got this wire bundle remade from Stein with the ends already set up. The downside is you can't feed it through a small hole. So, Brad made tabs with a slit, then riveted those to the ribs. Then installed the grommets. Looks like this. Pretty clever way to do it.
You can see the slit in the tab. This allows you to slip the wire in rather than feed it in. You can also see the little triangle tab riveted in.
9) Flap Bellcrank access cover
You can install the standard rectangular access reinforcement and cover per Piper drawings, that is what I did on my Cub, or you can make it a little larger by just putting some nut plates in the ribs. Larger is better and adds little if any weight. I like better as long as it does not add weight.
You will have to make a little C shaped piece from .020 or .025 and screw it to the spar cap (use existing screws) to get a level point for the front of the access cover plate. Install some nut plates and poof you are done. Don't forget to clean the ink off that little C shape you screwed in otherwise the ink will bleed through the fabric when you cover and make a mess.
10) Optional......,Install wingtip fairings to smooth out the covering.
The wingtips on a square tip wing can be covered as is but the fabric will have some pretty sharp sags and perhaps even a wrinkle. If you want to make it a little nicer you can install some little fairings to make the fabric hold its shape a little better. These are made from .016 material and pop riveted in place. You will not be able to bend the entire edge down because it is going to assume close to a compound curve shape so just cut and leave little tabs (reference the wingtip light mounts we fabricated) if you are struggling to visualize what I am trying to say.
This is a bottom fairing. You can do a top as well but the bottom is the more critical of the two.
I am finding it much more difficult to do as "How to" thread when I am not actually doing the work. Arggggggg
More to follow
11) Install Aileron Autopilot servo
Part of Brads mission involves a fair amount of cross country flying. In that respect an auto pilot can be quite helpful. The way we have configured the fuselage of his 4S there is not an easy place to install the aileron servo in the fuselage or directly to the torque tube as in some other applications. Soooo......we have installed it in the wing. I don't have a picture of the servo install but Brad sent me this little video. Brad made a mount plate that attaches to the upper and lower spar caps and does not attach to the spar web.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fHZ0E_fBnvQ?feature=share
Hope this helps
Bill
Last edited by Bill Rusk; 09-04-2022 at 09:47 AM.
Very Blessed.
I'd like to add a couple of things about the magnetometer wiring. If you are running LED nav/strobe lights, those lights PROBABLY will not draw enough to effect the readings from the magnetometer. But, if you run pitot heat and/or landing lights (especially incandescant lamps), there is a good chance the current draw from these will change the magnetometer readings. To prevent this from happening, keep the magnetometer wires separate from all other wiring. As Bill pointed out, there are places like the windshield post where the wiring simply cannot be spaced apart. So keep the wiring separated when you can and in the tight spaces just don't tie the the mag wires into the bundle with other wiring. Also, I've had good luck just 'gluing' the wires into place on the spar using RTV. Tape wires into place and add dabs of RTV. Pull the tape once the RTV sets up. Still allows you to pull the wires out if needed, in the future.
Nothing wrong with the mounting bracket in the pics, but I agree with Bill, I don't like extra holes in the spar. I prefer using a bracket between the ribs. Which ever way you decide, make sure you use the correct hardware! It should not need to be said but DO NOT use ferrous hardware. Garmin instructions even say to not use magnetic screwdrivers or electric drill motors when installing or maintaining these items. While Garmin says stainless screws are ok, I still use brass screws nuts and washers.
Web
Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
12) Install aileron balance cable
The aileron cable that goes through the tank bay and through the pulleys in the wing needs to be threaded in before you cover. A couple of feet will hang out of the root area, and the other end needs to be tied off in the wing. This cable end will be fished out via a wing inspection hole and will come out the bottom fabric and will connect to the bottom side of the aileron horn. (the other cable runs up the strut, through the wing, and comes out on top and connects to the top side of the horn.)
Attachment 62526
I just taped it off to the drag/anti drag wire. After cover and paint it can be fished out and pulled through the fabric and then the end turnbuckle swaged on to fit.
13) Install the pocket pieces
Jay has created these little metal pieces that help build a pocket for the strut ends to go up into. When you install the struts on a covered wing the end of the strut will protrude up into the fabric. It can be a messy install. Jay has made these little fairing brackets that create a pocket for that strut end to go into.
Attachment 62527
This goes on the front strut. It is just laying in place. Tuck the ends under the LE and put a rivet in each end before cover.
Attachment 62528
This piece goes on the rear strut attach point. It will be installed after cover and then reinforced and cleaned up with tapes and or doilies.
Attachment 62529
An over view showing both pieces laying in place to give you location reference. These pockets need to be pretty deep. Otherwise you are pressing hard into the fabric and forcing it to give. You may end up having to split the fabric if you do not create these pockets. Then you have a substandard ugly install.
Last Pre-Cover checklist
1) Check every Ince for sharp edges
2) Use an air nozzle to clean out all drill chips and other debries
3) Clean any and all ink off - it WILL bleed through
4) Safety wire the tank bay rib
5) Don't drill the landing light trim piece until after cover and paint
That should be most everything (I hope ) that needs to be done to the wings before covering.
Hope this helps
Bill
Last edited by Bill Rusk; 12-10-2022 at 08:15 PM.
Very Blessed.
I don't know why it is giving me the "attachment" issue on photos. I will try to get that fixed.
Lets talk about the fuselage.
I spent a couple of days in Jays shop going over the fuselage and making changes. I'm sure some of these will be incorporated into future kits and others will remain as possible options, depending on how you want the fuselage configured to suit your particular "Build for 90% of your flying" axiom.
I did have Jay weld in the mounts for lead to adjust the CG
After talking with the structural engineer we determined we could adjust the dogleg and increase the size of the baggage door. It will go from about 24 x 25 to 27x27.
The prototype fuselage had rudder pedals and toe brakes suspended from the upper longerons. It does make for a clean floor. Our objective was to make this as much like a Superb as possible so this assembly will be put under the floor and the rudder pedals will look like a stock cub and it will have heal brakes.
These top two tubes will be relocated under the floor to create something more akin to a stock superb. We will also run the rudder cables under the floor so they will have a straighter run and also that will get them completely out of the baggage area.
Very Blessed.
Hi Bill, Thanks for starting this thread. I have been on the list with Jay since the spring for one of these 4S kits. Looking forward to seeing the next round of progress and refinements you make.
Just got back from a week at Javron. It is an amazing experience!
Jay and I spent a good amount of that time building control cables. One of the things not finalized for the kit yet. He now has them mapped for the center stick, hanging pedal setup. Brad's mods will require different cables.
Other items not finalized are the engine mount, Boot cowl, engine cowling and fuel system.
Over the five days: mounted empennage, electric trim, hanging rudder pedals, wings and controls. Built the cables. Rigged everything (dihedral, washout, control throws, etc.). 95% of the kit hardware is mounted where it belongs. Disassembled and loaded in trailer.
I did bring my project back home.
First thing for me is designing and installing a fuel system. What I have in mind won't work with dual sticks.
Next will be the boot cowl.
Jay was very generous in cutting a practice instrument panel and firewall. He also cut a final instrument panel. Titanium firewall still in the works, he ran out of sheet Ti.
Re above posts: both wings now come with the landing light cutouts already in place. Complete with holes for rivets and nut plates. Jay figures a 5 hour savings per side.
Their new laser cutter is amazing and allows for very rapid prototyping. Mike spent about 10 minutes on the CAD program, and the cutter took almost 30 seconds to cut the practice firewall blank.
They are working on Brads fuselage to accommodate the changes Bill mentioned.
I stayed in an apartment I found on the AirBnb website. Called the Studio on 6th street, it is right in the middle of Brainerd. Same price as the cheapest hotel I could find in Baxter, but it is three miles closer to Javron. Also within walking distance to restaurants in downtown Brainerd. It has stove, microwave, fridge, etc. I saved a fair amount of money by visiting the grocery store and eating some meals there.
All in all, it was a blur. Jay has great people working for him and an incredibly capable shop.
Now if all you guys with kits would quit calling him for a few months so he has some time to work on finishing the 4S kit...........
Tom
If you pesky guys with your fancy four seat cubs would leave Jay alone, my kit would ship out sooner!
Just kidding, I'm following along with your build eagerly as I wait for my kit.
Folks
Been quite a while since I posted. I do apologize. The transition to retirement has been a little different than I anticipated. Hopefully I will be able to focus on this project a little more.
Back to changes Brad and I requested to the fuselage to meet our goals. Its all about the mission and then the "Build for 90% rule"
This is not really a change, but just a FYI. The Javron 4S Cub will have the overhead flap mechanism.
Because of the controls, wider fuselage, cable runs, seats, etc it would be very challenging to locate it anywhere else
Rear seats
This was a big change. And not everyone may agree with my logic, but here we go. The stock 4S cub comes with folding rear seats. After the cushions are removed, they fold up against the sidewalls, and/or can be removed altogether if desired. It is my OPINION that this is a feature that would be seldom used. Let me explain. When I flew for the Part-135 operation in Alaska a couple of summers back, it was not uncommon to take seats in and out (or fold them up in the C-180) and switch from cargo to passengers. We would often take the seats out and lay them in the back of the 206, or fold them up in the 180. We would then load a bunch of cargo, boxes, and mail, and fly to McCarthy. Unload, reposition seats so we could haul passengers back to Gulkana. On any given day we would move the seats several times. This Cub will not (and can not) be used for commercial ops. So I don't think the seats will go in and out very often. It will be a 2 seat airplane until the grandkids come to town. The back seats will go in to give rides for a day or two, then they will come out for 3 to 6 months or more. I doubt folks are going to load this cub with cargo, fly to their cabin, fly passengers, then swap and load cargo, fly, swap back to passengers several times a day. So......I wanted removable (Vs folding) seats. The difference is what sticks out when the folding seats are not in the airplane. The sidewalls will have 2...... 4 inch fingers that stick out from the sidewalls and would rip into tents, sleeping bags, or whatever you load. The seat posts would stick up out of the floor so your cooler will not sit flat on the floor. We redesigned the whole rear seat(s) assembly so that when the rear seats are not in the airplane the entire cargo area is flat with no protrusions. When I had my C-170B I just took the rear seat out most of the time and it sat in the hangar, until the 2 or 3 times a hear when I needed the back seat. Remember to build for what YOU will do 90% of the time. If you have 2 kids and the whole family goes flying all the time, perhaps folding seats are best. If you think it is you and a friend 90% of the time, the "removable" seats will clean up the cargo area.
You will be able to order your kit (I think, I am not Javron) with either style seats. Your choice.
This is the folding rear seat assembly (welding rod just holding it in place)
These are the mount tabs for the folding rear seats that will be sticking up out of the floor when the seats are not in the airplane
These arms will stick out from the sidewalls when the seats are not in the airplane.
By making the seats "removable" Vs "folding" we are able to get rid of all the protrusions sticking into the cargo area when the seats are not in the airplane. The folding seats are pretty cool and they are wildly popular in C-180/185 aircraft, especially when used in commercial operations. You pick what you think will work for you.
The seat belts will have these flush mounts in the floor......common to Cessna 206 and others....They pop up and.........
The seat belt will have a clip (upper left of the photo) to clip in when needed. Otherwise the seat belt can be removed and the floor is once again flat with no protrusions.
More tomorrow.
Bill
Very Blessed.
FRONT SEATS
This is the normal SC front seat. We will not be using this. We will be putting in rails and using a Cessna style seat. This allows more seat for/aft travel and also allows for much quicker removal. This will allow the side doors to be used to more easily load cargo if necessary. Will also make maintenance easier.
I anticipate the airplane will be used on floats and the manual pump system (could also be used for retract skis) will be mounted on the floor between the seats allowing either front seat to pump (15 strokes) the gear up and down.
The yellow tape is showing a cargo tie down anchor. There will be 6 on the floor and 4 in the ceiling. This will be critical so I will say this in bold print. The cargo area is huge. You can not allow cargo to shift. It could easily result in an aft CG and unsafe situation.
THE CARGO MUST BE SECURED FROM MOVEMENT DURING FLIGHT
Bill
The arrows point to the rudder cable runs. This was going to be in the cargo area and would need to be covered to protect a primary flight control from being impacted from cargo. This would create a barrier to loading and unloading cargo. We completely rerouted the rudder cables under the fuselage so they are completely out of the cargo area. In a nutshell we completely opened the cargo area so it is smooth with nothing in it at all. (remember we put the rudder pedals on the floor rather than hanging down). I will show more pictures when we get the fuselage. It will be easier to understand.
This picture sucks but the idea is...... we welded channel on the lower door frame so we could put plexiglass on the lower door half. Adds weight, I know but that is what the owner wanted. I'm just helping.
We will weld a tab where the arrow is to put in a panel brace. The panel is wide enough that we will need a brace. Especially since that is where the throttle quadrant will be. Dual sticks means the throttle will be in the center.
Bill
All good ideas for sure. As far as the rear seat mounts, I see opportunity. My plan is to fab up an aux fuel tank, 35-40 gallon, that utilizes the tabs and side arms. Quick release pins and it'll pop right out.
I've looked very hard at it and it will be very hard to mount some sort of belly pod for fuel.
Tom
Tom - Get idea. Yeah, it might a while before anyone has a pod for the 4 seat cubs.
Another thing we did, no picture. There will be tabs welded on so we have a metal belly under the seat area. Not a metal belly all the way, just under the seats. It is such a PAIN to take the floorboards out of a stock cub, to clean the belly, I wanted a belly panel. This is something Jay is doing on the 2 seat cubs (if you ask for it) and it is something I REALLY wish I had on mine.
We also welded a tab in for the water rudder retract cable handle.
More to follow. Thanks for following
Bill
Very Blessed.
I dig the fold up seats. I have been wanting to do something like this in my pacer. I am constantly taking the seat in and out for cargo runs.
You can weld a nut to the tab if you want to make it easier to remove floor board hardware.
Web
Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
Make your own belly pod. With a wide fuselage it wouldn't need to be very deep to have a good capacity. 5052 aluminum makes a nice belly pod.
If you put one inside the cabin, be certain to vent it outside.
I even have a few left over new Facet fuel pumps from a belly tank project.
NX1PA
Ive talked to Jay about making a predrilled belly pod kit for a Cub. Could be UPS in a flat box and built at home. 4 place sides would be same as tandem cub. He's your chance Jay, 2 birds with one stone
Glenn
"Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
Folks
ATR composite listed in post #35 for floor board material is no longer an option.
Bankruptcy and reorganization. Maybe in the future but not now.
Bill
Very Blessed.
Would this work instead? (not cheap, but has a quote builder and live pricing tool for the fiberglass composition) https://www.professionalplastics.com/Showa-Aircraft
This is an excellent type of material for floorboards. 60+ years ago when I worked for Sikorsky this type of material was being used for the floorboards of the helicopters which were being built for the military. You know it was subject to abuse. As I recall the honeycomb portion was aluminum foil with aluminum deck material.
NX1PA
I have the BAS seats in my C180.
(I think you are familiar with the plane, I bought it from a friend of yours)
They are generally kept in the stowed position, folded up against the sidewalls.
On more than one occasion, I have been tasked with giving a ride home to people whose airplane (or pilot) was disabled.
Often this came up when I was already out away from home,
so if the seats were out of the airplane I would have had to fly home, re-install the seats, then fly the mission.
Without upholstery, they are still plenty comfortable for short flights,
and take up very little room when stowed.
I consider them a very handy feature.
Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
Folks
The fuselage is in the hangar and we have started to look at it.
This is what the floor mounted style rudder pedals look like. We will have brakes on the left side only.
What it looks like with two adults in the rear seats
Front seat and rear seat occupied.
We will be using Cessna seat rails and a Cessna type seat (Javron is making the seats). This will allow greater fore/aft movement and also quick and easy removal and installation.
The Paint booth is pretty much done. This turned into a MAJOR effort in both time and money.
This is the back wall which goes to the garage door. I can open this door and park my car in the booth when it is not in use.
But I did not want to paint the garage door so I used a couple of doors, that are hinged to create a back wall just inside the garage door. The large gap in the lower left is for the exhaust fan outlet.
This is the other wall with double doors to get large stuff in and out of the booth. If it is to large for this door we can use the garage door.
This is what the fan box looks like. The plug in and outlet has been moved outside the booth. The fans will have filters over them.
This is the double door at the other end and wall of inlet filters. Also you can see the man door on the left.
This is the fan box with the filters in place. The box has enough depth so that the main garage door comes down on top and creates the seal. You can see the right door open here. It is pretty complex and certainly not normal but we had to work with the hangar configuration that I have. It was the best place for exhaust air but I still wanted to be able to use my car parking spot when not using the booth. When the fan box is not in use it can be moved around to include being out of the booth all together.
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