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Thread: Panel Help- AV-30? Other? Nothing?

  1. #41
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    His airplane is a Super Cub. Doesn’t qualify for Light Sport. If yours is a J-3 or PA-11 it may, but none of the Super Cubs meet the LS requirement.

    MTV
    Recreational pilot is different from sport pilot.
    FAR 61.96 (Subpart D) vs FAR 61.301 (Subpart J).
    Last edited by hotrod180; 02-15-2022 at 10:31 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    ....Thats precisely the opposite experience that I’ve had with the company. As an early adopter, I did have a few issues with the early equipment (I have a SkyBeacon and two AV-30s). The company went out of their way, at significant expense to make things right. Everything has worked great for some time now. ....
    Mike, I remember when you posted about having issues when you first installed your Skybeacon.
    As I recall, you were very irritated with no / slow / poor customer service in response to your calls.
    I guess they finally stepped up and made it right, but it seems like it took them quite a while.
    Funny that you'd be such a fan after that experience.

    FWIW I have a Uavionix Tailbeacon, but luckily I've never had any problems with it.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post

    The Private Pilot practical test is a VFR event. Add to Airspeed, Altimeter, Magnetic Compass and Tach – a “Turn Coordinator/Turn and Bank/Slip-Skid Indicator” and you then the minimum you need for the Basic Instrument Maneuvers in the PTS.

    There is no PTS applicable to private pilot airplane. Your answer would be more credible if you quoted from the ACS.

    https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...s_change_1.pdf

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    There is no PTS applicable to private pilot airplane. Your answer would be more credible if you quoted from the ACS.

    https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...s_change_1.pdf
    Do you have the answer, is the DPE wrong or am I wrong regarding required equipment for a private pilot checkride.. oops is it called a checkride?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Mike, I remember when you posted about having issues when you first installed your Skybeacon.
    As I recall, you were very irritated with no / slow / poor customer service in response to your calls.
    I guess they finally stepped up and made it right, but it seems like it took them quite a while.
    Funny that you'd be such a fan after that experience.

    FWIW I have a Uavionix Tailbeacon, but luckily I've never had any problems with it.
    Yes, it took them/me a while to work through that issue. And yes, we all want instant response to problems. After it became clear that the unit I had was indeed faulty (as in, I completed the trouble shooting the company suggested) they replaced it, no charge. The replacement has worked flawlessly since.

    I had some questions about certain functionality of one AV-30. Wasn’t anything to do with safety critical “stuff”, but we couldn’t figure it out (had to do with OAT). Company said they’d replace the unit if I returned it. I explained that it’s really hard to schedule maintenance here and didn’t wantlane down for a couple weeks.

    Company said schedule mechanic to replace and they’d send a replacement. I gave them the date, they sent TWO new units, equipped with the latest software, AND that have on board magnetometer.

    This is a relatively new company, at least new to general aviation. I assume they are figuring out things as they come up. Customer service is one of those things. It’s definitely improved. The fact that I’ve bought three devices from them now should tell you my feelings about the company.

    MTV
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Do you have the answer, is the DPE wrong or am I wrong regarding required equipment for a private pilot checkride.. oops is it called a checkride?
    The knowledge and skills requirements of section VIII would lead me to believe that an attitude indicator is required. However, I have not instructed to the ACS and can't be sure that interpretation is correct.

    14 CFR 61.45 basically says the aircraft must be equipped for all areas of operation required by the practical test. The ACS defines the knowledge and skills that must be demonstrated. ACS section VIII has several references to pitch and bank instruments.

  7. #47

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    Pitch and bank instruments are spelled out in the instrument flight handbook, airspeed altimeter and VSI are pitch, turn indicator/coordinator and compass are bank. We can make this as complicated as we want, or clear it up, an IFR plane is not required for VFR flight.
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-15-2022 at 12:16 PM.

  8. #48
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7t4IR-3mSo

    Cardiff, you mentioned potentially saving your bacon in inadvertent IMC. In my opinion - and I'm not a pro - before putting much faith in even the best of equipment one should be certain to not be the 'weak link' in the overall system. An instrument rating would be the first step in that direction.

    FWIW, I agree with RV Bottomly - I've experienced smoke in central Oregon that is legal VFR but IMC (no horizon), so have ended up obtaining a popup IFR clearance. I've also listened to Chinook Approach trying to help a pilot disoriented in smoke. ATC declared an emergency on that pilot's behalf. Scary.

    Tip of the hat to you for asking questions and digesting what everybody is saying. Get your check ride done in the Cessna. I had to rent a plane for mine, cuz my taylorcraft didn't have adequate panel capability, and that was 49 years ago. In retrospect that was no big deal, though I was disappointed at the time. Checkride complete, then go have a blast in your Cub. And get started on your instrument rating.

    All opinion, of course.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Pitch and bank instruments are spelled out in the instrument flight handbook, airspeed altimeter and VSI are pitch, turn indicator/coordinator and compass are bank. We can make this as complicated as we want, or clear it up, an IFR plane is not required for VFR flight.
    Here is a direct quote from the instrument Flight Handbook - https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...H-8083-15B.pdf

    "Pitch Control - Pitch control is controlling the rotation of the aircraft about the lateral axis by movement of the elevators. After interpreting the pitch attitude from the proper flight instruments, exert control pressures to effect the desired pitch attitude with reference to the horizon. These instruments include the attitude indicator, altimeter, VSI, and airspeed indicator. [Figure 6-4] The attitude indicator displays a direct indication of the aircraft’s pitch attitude while the other pitch attitude control instruments indirectly indicate the pitch attitude of the aircraft."

    deleted interpretation

    Added -

    The question perhaps comes down to deciding if a "pitch attitude control instrument" is the same thing as a "pitch attitude instrument" . I don't think it is but I've been wrong before.
    Last edited by frequent_flyer; 02-15-2022 at 01:07 PM.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Gordon- thanks for sharing. The video is terrifying. Literally the first quote in the comments sums up my feeling on why I would want an attitude indicator- even if I never use it.

    PS- appreciate all the input from everyone. I don't feel there is a right or wrong answer here but I appreciate all the input.

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  11. #51

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    I agree that video is scary and true, sucks to be in a situation where the wx is coming down and you are instrument rated and in a VFR plane, thats why a turn coordinator is a nice instrument to have, keep the wings level and you cannot get in that situation in the video. And to the OP, an attitude indicator or tc wont do you a bit a good if you are not trained and good at flying by reference to them. Look at JFK jr, everything he needed was right there..

    If you learn to fly partial panel, airspeed altitude and turn coordinator you will never get in that situation.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    The question perhaps comes down to deciding if a "pitch attitude control instrument" is the same thing as a "pitch attitude instrument" . I don't think it is but I've been wrong before.
    I searched the Instrument Flight Handbook for "pitch instrument" and there are numerous references that show VSI , altimeter, and airspeed indicator are "pitch instruments". I now agree there is nothing in ACS that specifically requires an attitude indicator.

  13. #53

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    When you are flying in the mountains/ flat land in bad conditions the one tool that will save you above others is likely your GPS. That is how you are going to find the escape route, avoid turning into raising terrain, and find a safe place to land, most all come with artificial vision. You could have a full six pack in the dash, unless you are well trained it probably won't help. I have a electric attitude indicator in my cub and never look at it because the synthetic vision on my 795 shows me so much more. I don't think any of us feel having a attitude indicator of whatever type is bad. It seems every new pilot/plane owner go's through this if you have the money and are willing to wait for instruments to be installed before you take you test, that is fully up to you. Bob gave you great advice, go fly the plane and you will have a better understanding of what you need and want. DENNY
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    You know what else? You can fly on a student license forever if you get 90-day checkouts from your instructor. I have long since forgotten whether a flight is required, but do not stop flying. Hard on the Cub and hard on your new skillset.

    I should mention - my Decathlon has a Venturi driven suite of gyros - attitude, heading, turn. I can turn the air off for aerobatics, so after two practice ILS approaches (with a check pilot) I turn the air off and shoot the approach with the 295 on HSI mode (yes it has a glide slope all the way to the runway). All I have is the 295, airspeed, altitude, VSI, clock, nav receiver (glide slope) and engine instruments. Always successful through 180 degrees of heading change, and down to 100 feet.

    You really can fly an aircraft without a glass cockpit.
    Last edited by bob turner; 02-15-2022 at 01:59 PM.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post

    Checkride complete, then go have a blast in your Cub. And get started on your instrument rating.

    All opinion, of course.
    This is great advice. If somebody tells you NOT to get your instrument rating, make sure you quiz them why. Many people that do not have an instrument rating will tell you it is not needed. IMHO the most important things (besides learning how to fly on instruments) that you will get from an instrument rating is how to interact with controllers, and they are the ones you will need to call for help if you get in trouble.

    Tim
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  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Do you have the answer, is the DPE wrong or am I wrong regarding required equipment for a private pilot checkride.. oops is it called a checkride?
    Even in the Wild West of Alaska, I was told I couldnít do a checkride in my old Taylorcraft. But Iím not required to have blah blahÖ no one cared. I rented a 172. Iíd have much preferred to spend that on an AV-30 if that was an option at the time.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  17. #57
    mvivion's Avatar
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    For those of you looking for an answer to the question of whether an applicant must present an aircraft for the practical test that is equipped with an attitude indicator, good luck.

    What's being discussed here is DPEs, not necessarily what's actually required in the regulations. DPEs are essentially contractors to the FAA, and the FAA considers that certification to be a "privilege", just like your pilot certificate.

    In the not too distant past, the FAA "fired" a well known DPE who was observed VIEWING (not participating, and not "representing himself" as a DPE, just because his camera was on and he "Appeared" to be consuming a reddish fluid from a "wine glass". His DPE was rescinded......it has since, after a rather large upheaval of CFIs/DPEs, etc. been re-instated.

    So, with that in mind, put yourself in the context being talked about here. As a DPE, you're required to evaluate the applicant's ability to recover from unusual attitudes, make constant heading climbs and descents, etc.

    First, is the FAA (and DPEs are under the supervision of a particular FSDO.....and we all know that those folks are all on the same page, right??? ) going to come down on a DPE if they find out he allowed an applicant to demonstrate these tasks without an attitude instrument? That is a big question.

    Second, demonstrating these instrument tasks is difficult enough WITH an attitude instrument. It's significantly harder without one. So, does a DPE want to set an applicant up to potentially fail a practical test?

    And, DPEs are expected to apply a certain amount (not much, but) of common sense. Even if the regulations don't say you CAN'T do this, it's totally within the DPE's rights to refuse.

    Finally, for you folks "suggesting" that having an instrument rating is a significant advantage if you do get into inadvertent IMC, take a close look at the statistics on in flight LOC. THose contain a pretty high number of instrument rated pilots.

    I'm not suggesting that having gone through instrument training isn't advantageous....it clearly is. But, it's no guarantee.

    But, an attitude instrument in inadvertent IMC.....That is a huge advantage, as long as you look at it, and USE it.

    MTV
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  18. #58

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    Thats exactly what the issue is here, there needs to be standards that all DPEs check by, not how he wants to do it.

    The attitude indicator only backs up what the performance instruments are already telling you, its not needed to fly basic attitude maneuvers or recover from unusual attitudes, you simply look at the performance and correct. Knowing how to do that is going to save your butt, understanding what the gauges are telling you.

  19. #59
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    A friend of mine was in kinda the same boat as the OP.
    He likes to say "I got my license in a 150, then I learned how to fly in a Cub".
    I would suggest just getting your PP ticket in the most expeditious way.
    Sounds like renting a 150 or 172 would get that done.
    Then fly your new plane, but don't rush into buying gizmos for it--
    get some time in it, and with that experience under your belt figure out what you really need or want.
    It might be somewhat different from what you want or think you need now.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Thats exactly what the issue is here, there needs to be standards that all DPEs check by, not how he wants to do it.

    The attitude indicator only backs up what the performance instruments are already telling you, its not needed to fly basic attitude maneuvers or recover from unusual attitudes, you simply look at the performance and correct. Knowing how to do that is going to save your butt, understanding what the gauges are telling you.

    My point wasn't that the DPE is necessarily "deciding" what he is willing to use, but rather the massive inconsistency within the FAA FSDOs and their "interpretations" of same.
    Frankly, I don't doubt there are many DPEs who might be willing to use a plane with no A/H. But, they are contractors, and not necessarily the ones making decisions.

    MTV

  21. #61

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    Been looking at this thread for a couple days. Just took a good look at the panel on one of the first posts.
    I would get rid of the T&B and put an AV30 in its hole. It’s got a T&B built into it.
    problem solved….I just did it to my Cub, figured I stare at a similar instrument at work why not in the Cub.
    it also has a volt meter so you can get rid of that one too!
    So my advice….put it in, do the checkride, enjoy your Cub.

  22. #62

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    Its not a turn and bank, that is the hurdle here, its a ball, if it were a turn and bank he would be golden for the ride. I would think twice though about the av30, I would really like my Cub IFR and to do that the av30 is no good, the new garmin 275 is though, it is another $1000 but if he decides to do IFR training in his Cub he would have to throw out the av30 and buy two garmin 275s. If he spends the extra grand now he would only need to buy one more g275 and have the full six pack using just two 3.125 holes. The av30 is not certified to replace the airspeed altimeter or VSI, the g275 is with two installed, https://www.pacificcoastavionics.com...fis-indicators
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-16-2022 at 12:25 PM.

  23. #63

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    I would much rather the AV30 over a dog house for standard turn information. In a small airplane I know 20-25 degrees bank will get me pretty close to a 180 in a minute. It has a ball for coordination.
    I’m not timing turns, as far as IFR in a cub….the aircraft per TCDS isn’t approved for it anyway. I know Piper equipped a few but those were the minority and I imagine they had an amended TCDS. So if it ain’t certified for it, actual IFR in a straight cub ain’t legal.
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  24. #64

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    Panel Help- AV-30? Other? Nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Its not a turn and bank, that is the hurdle here, its a ball, if it were a turn and bank he would be golden for the ride. I would think twice though about the av30, I would really like my Cub IFR and to do that the av30 is no good, the new garmin 275 is though, it is another $1000 but if he decides to do IFR training in his Cub he would have to throw out the av30 and buy two garmin 275s. If he spends the extra grand now he would only need to buy one more g275 and have the full six pack using just two 3.125 holes. The av30 is not certified to replace the airspeed altimeter or VSI, the g275 is with two installed, https://www.pacificcoastavionics.com...fis-indicators
    The 275 is $2400 more for one of them. They are $4K a piece. No one is recommending he outfit his Cub (or any Cub) for IFR training. Whatís he, or you, going to use for navigation? Are you going to install a WAAS GPS and VOR? Youíre talking $20K or more in avionics and it still wonít be IFR legal per the TCDS.

    Or he could put in a $1600 AV-30 that will exceed all of his needs.


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    Last edited by EdH; 02-16-2022 at 03:09 PM.

  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by md11freighter View Post
    I would much rather the AV30 over a dog house for standard turn information. In a small airplane I know 20-25 degrees bank will get me pretty close to a 180 in a minute. It has a ball for coordination.
    Iím not timing turns, as far as IFR in a cubÖ.the aircraft per TCDS isnít approved for it anyway. I know Piper equipped a few but those were the minority and I imagine they had an amended TCDS. So if it ainít certified for it, actual IFR in a straight cub ainít legal.
    Here is the picture I thought you were talking about, there is no t&b only a ball. It is for coordination thats all, no doghouse. I agree with you on replacing that ball with something more useful, I would buy a GRT Mini GA though over the av30, cheaper and can navigate with an internal gps and fly synthetic approaches, amazing instrument.



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  26. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdH View Post
    The 275 is $2400 more for one of them. They are $4K a piece. No one is recommending he outfit his Cub (or any Cub) for IFR training. What’s he, or you, going to use for navigation? Are you going to install a WAAS GPS and VOR? You’re talking $20K or more in avionics and it still won’t be IFR legal per the TCDS.

    Or he could put in a $1600 AV-30 that will exceed all of his needs.


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    I will go with a WAAS gps and I do not have a TCDS limitation restricting to VFR, was not aware that Super Cubs did.
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  27. #67

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    I use a Garmin 686 for navigation, and I admit that I still fly with a paper chart also.
    The AV30 is strictly for emergency. Like MTV said there were a few times that something like that would have been handy in a cub.
    if the WX is at all iffy I stay home or wait it out. I don’t need to go anywhere in a small airplane. If I am stuck someplace and have a work trip I’ll leave the Cub and jumpseat or buy a ticket. If that’s not an option, I’ll call in sick.
    The wife probably will enjoy her time away from me anyway!
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  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdH View Post
    You’re talking $20K or more in avionics and it still won’t be IFR legal per the TCDS.
    This is the PA-18 TCDS: https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/ab203ab0e89895af862572090071f7cd/$FILE/1A2.pdf
    Where does it say VFR only? I can't find it.
    N1PA

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    I looked and couldnt find it either, must be there somewhere unless Edh was just running on and not knowing what he was talking about
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-16-2022 at 06:15 PM.

  30. #70
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    Generally when an airplane is placarded "VFR only" or "Day VFR only", it just means it doesn't have the appropriate equipment installed. It doesn't mean you can't get it installed. Also if you dig into the regulations you will find there are remarkably few requirements. Only what is necessary for the flight. In fact when out of controlled airspace ... well look it up. It does not match what is generally considered to be required.
    N1PA
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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Generally when an airplane is placarded "VFR only" or "Day VFR only", it just means it doesn't have the appropriate equipment installed. It doesn't mean you can't get it installed. Also if you dig into the regulations you will find there are remarkably few requirements. Only what is necessary for the flight. In fact when out of controlled airspace ... well look it up. It does not match what is generally considered to be required.
    The only difference between controlled and uncontrolled airspace that I'm aware of is the need for a clearance. 14 CFR 91.205 (a) through (e) do not reference airspace type. Uncontrolled airspace typically exists where there is no radar coverage. There isn't much in Arizona. There is no requirement for any means of navigation, and no need to be equipped to fly an approach, to fly IFR in IMC. What did I miss?

    On some of the few days with low cloud in AZ I have requested a pop up clearance, flown IFR for a tenth or two, then descended to VFR and cancelled the clearance.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    The only difference between controlled and uncontrolled airspace that I'm aware of is the need for a clearance. 14 CFR 91.205 (a) through (e) do not reference airspace type. Uncontrolled airspace typically exists where there is no radar coverage. There isn't much in Arizona. There is no requirement for any means of navigation, and no need to be equipped to fly an approach, to fly IFR in IMC. What did I miss?

    On some of the few days with low cloud in AZ I have requested a pop up clearance, flown IFR for a tenth or two, then descended to VFR and cancelled the clearance.
    That's basically it. In the lower 48 there isn't as much opportunity as there used to be to find uncontrolled airspace.
    N1PA

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    Panel Help- AV-30? Other? Nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    I would think twice though about the av30, I would really like my Cub IFR and to do that the av30 is no good, the new garmin 275 is though, it is another $1000 but if he decides to do IFR training in his Cub he would have to throw out the av30 and buy two garmin 275s. If he spends the extra grand now he would only need to buy one more g275 and have the full six pack using just two 3.125 holes.
    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    I looked and couldnt find it either, must be there somewhere unless Edh was just running on and not knowing what he was talking about
    I said one sentence about it, but you say Iím just running on? And Iím not the only one, or even the first, who said it. I donít give a crap what you do. Youíre the one on here recommending this guy should spend an extra $1000 so he can do future IFR training in his Cub, even before he gets his private. Iím saying thatís not as easy as installing a Garmin 275, and Garmin 275s are a few bucks more than $1K from an AV-30. Also, the AV-30 IS certified for IFR as a primary attitude indicator, and secondary altimeter and ASI, if you use the certified version, so thatís still not an issue anyway.

    And yes, maybe you donít NEED an approved means of IFR navigation to take off VFR, get clearance to hop into clouds, and then find some VFR to land. Maybe Iím speaking for Alaska, but that seems like a terrible habit to get into. Also, I really doubt anyone will give you IFR training without it.


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    Last edited by EdH; 02-16-2022 at 09:38 PM.
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  34. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This is the PA-18 TCDS: https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/ab203ab0e89895af862572090071f7cd/$FILE/1A2.pdf
    Where does it say VFR only? I can't find it.
    Thanks for pointing that out, guess Iíd read that statement a few times on here and never really looked for it. Mostly because I never considered a ďfullĒ IFR Cub to be a realistic option for me.


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    Here is the Garmin 275 info, $3489 for the attitude, $3799 for the HSI, this is what I may do, with both installed you are legal IFR and can get rid of all other instruments, dont need the steam airspeed or altimeter or VSI. If you use two av30 you still have to keep those old steam instruments, they dont even have an HSI only heading indicator and its so small you cant read it, plus you have to have 6th hole for the nav head, 2 holes for Garmin and 6 holes for av30, I have 4 holes in my panel, so the av30 is not an option for me. The WAAS gps 175 is $4395 gets you LPV approaches.
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  36. #76

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    That would be a nice setup for sure. Wouldnít you still need secondary backup instruments separate from the 275s though? IIRC, G5ís and other glass panels require backup ASIs and Altimiters for IFR. Iíd think 275s would be the same if so.

    I did some of my instrument training in a 172 that had a G5, and Iím not sure Iíd want to have all my needed instruments crammed into one or two small screens. To me, they were sometimes hard to read and got a little cluttered. That could just be a familiarity thing though.


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  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Generally when an airplane is placarded "VFR only" or "Day VFR only", it just means it doesn't have the appropriate equipment installed. It doesn't mean you can't get it installed. Also if you dig into the regulations you will find there are remarkably few requirements. Only what is necessary for the flight. In fact when out of controlled airspace ... well look it up. It does not match what is generally considered to be required.
    Pete, that does vary. I think that’s true for CAR 3. Part 23, not so much.

    Take a look at the Cub Crafters CC-19-180 type certificate. It calls out “Day/Night Visual Flight Rules(VFR)”.

    The CC-18-180 listed Day Visual Flight Rules”. When CC opted to include night VFR, all airplanes had to go back to the factory, to be modified to night VFR.

    On the other hand, here’s the pertinent excerpt from the Aviat Husky TC:

    Equipment
    Part 23 of the Federal Aviation Regulations dated February 1, 1965 as amended by 23-1 thru 23-31 (Normal Category)
    The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations must be installed in the aircraft for certification. In addition, the following items of equipment are required:
    1. FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual
    2. Stall Warning indicator.
    3. Cylinder head temperature gage.

    MTV

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Its not a turn and bank, that is the hurdle here, its a ball, if it were a turn and bank he would be golden for the ride. I would think twice though about the av30, I would really like my Cub IFR and to do that the av30 is no good, the new garmin 275 is though, it is another $1000 but if he decides to do IFR training in his Cub he would have to throw out the av30 and buy two garmin 275s. If he spends the extra grand now he would only need to buy one more g275 and have the full six pack using just two 3.125 holes. The av30 is not certified to replace the airspeed altimeter or VSI, the g275 is with two installed, https://www.pacificcoastavionics.com...fis-indicators
    Where are you finding that the AV-30 is “no good” for IFR? Yes, you still need a/s altimeter etc, but the AV-30 is approved for IFR. And it offers a lot of redundancy, which most folks consider to be a good thing in IMC.

    Replace ALL your steam gauges with a Garmin 275, and you now have NO backup.

    Training? Maybe, but if he can’t find a DPE who’ll do a private checkride in a cub with no horizon, you seriously think a DPE is going to do an instrument check ride in a plane with just a Garmin 275?

    Maybe, but this is a basic VFR plane.

    MTV

  39. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdH View Post
    That would be a nice setup for sure. Wouldn’t you still need secondary backup instruments separate from the 275s though? IIRC, G5’s and other glass panels require backup ASIs and Altimiters for IFR. I’d think 275s would be the same if so.

    I did some of my instrument training in a 172 that had a G5, and I’m not sure I’d want to have all my needed instruments crammed into one or two small screens. To me, they were sometimes hard to read and got a little cluttered. That could just be a familiarity thing though.


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    I could be wrong but from what I read the two 275s talk to each other and if one fails the other automatically goes into reversionary mode. Only dual 275 installs allow the removal of all steam gauges. I would still have an electric turn coordinator and my GRT mini ga in the other two holes. Apparently the g5s do not have the capabilities of the new 275. But you are right, thats a lot of money to put all that in my Cub, think I would rather build a new engine and just use the GRT Mini if I accidentally get into the goo weather. The OP mentioned how terrified that youtube clip of a VFR pilot getting into IMC made him, sounded like he would pursue instrument training, thats why I said the garmin is the better choice since he is in the same 4 hole panel situation that I am in, he does not have room for a av30 and 5 other gauges, but he does for the dual g275 install and have an IFR trainer.

  40. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Where are you finding that the AV-30 is “no good” for IFR? Yes, you still need a/s altimeter etc, but the AV-30 is approved for IFR. And it offers a lot of redundancy, which most folks consider to be a good thing in IMC.

    Replace ALL your steam gauges with a Garmin 275, and you now have NO backup.

    Training? Maybe, but if he can’t find a DPE who’ll do a private checkride in a cub with no horizon, you seriously think a DPE is going to do an instrument check ride in a plane with just a Garmin 275?

    Maybe, but this is a basic VFR plane.

    MTV
    Read the previous post, "no good" was referring to the OP his panel is lacking enough space for the av30 and the other 5 guages required for IFR. The dual 275 install is the back up, auto reversionary mode if one fails the other picks it up.

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