• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Looking at O470 powered C185 what are the things to look out for?

....I do not park a plane with the fuel selector in the OFF position. Almost the only time I use that position is if I'm fueling and need to get max fuel in tanks. Prevents fuel from cross feeding, while you're switching sides, and frankly, I'm not sure that's even much. I religiously check fuel selector on during my pre takeoff flow. That said, I also know I'm not perfect.....Most planes won't let you get to the runway if the selector is off, but not all.....
MTV

Seems like that's kinda like never putting the gear up on a retract,
just so you don't forget to put it down later.

FWIW my OFF not only doesn't crossfeed, but it also shuts off 100%.
You're not gonna get very far taxiing with it in that position.
So unless you're taking off right from your parking spot,
the chance of it quitting on climbout is pretty remote.
 
Seems like that's kinda like never putting the gear up on a retract,
just so you don't forget to put it down later.

FWIW my OFF not only doesn't crossfeed, but it also shuts off 100%.
You're not gonna get very far taxiing with it in that position.
So unless you're taking off right from your parking spot,
the chance of it quitting on climbout is pretty remote.

Well, something over 5000 hours in 185s, and never turned fuel off when parked, other than maintenance. Guess I been doing it wrong all these years. Whoda thunk?

MTV
 
Last edited:
I never turned mine off either, yet I did place it on either left or right when not parked level, or when on the water, or when fueling. This prevented cross feeding.
 
A carbureted airplane with the fuel selector off can run long enough to get you into a bad place before the engine quits. I never turn my fuel off but confirming the selector is on is one item on my pre-takeoff checklist. Because somebody else may have turned it off, like my mechanic.

Re: 185 fuel systems? You guys made me look. Early models had an option for selectable fuel tanks. The plumbing is very different with or without a selector. Without a selector each tank feeds the accumulator tank. With the valve only the outlet line from the valve feeds the tank. In all cases the fuel shutoff valve is at the outlet of the accumulator tank. I wouldn’t think a 185 would run very long with fuel off, but I recall reading they will. With my Lycoming I can’t prime to start with the fuel selector off. The pump runs like normal but the engine won’t begin to fire. There’s safety in that.
 
I never turned mine off either, yet I did place it on either left or right when not parked level, or when on the water, or when fueling. This prevented cross feeding.

A 185 doesn’t have an off position at the selector valve, right? The off selector is separate?
 
I'm told an A185F will run at climb power for about 15 seconds after takeoff (no taxi) on the header tank before it gets quiet.
 
Here's the fuel system diagram for a 1985 A185F:

Cessna 185 fuel system diagram.jpg

MTV
 

Attachments

  • Cessna 185 fuel system diagram.jpg
    Cessna 185 fuel system diagram.jpg
    77.9 KB · Views: 172
I'm told an A185F will run at climb power for about 15 seconds after takeoff (no taxi) on the header tank before it gets quiet.
I never tried it, but I doubt it. The fuel shutoff is directly under and between the header tank and the engine. I doubt it would get off the ground with the fuel shut off.
 
Well, by now after 41 posts the OP should have a pretty good idea to check the fuel shut off valve and maybe a fuel selector. Anything else he should have checked?
 
I never tried it, but I doubt it. The fuel shutoff is directly under and between the header tank and the engine. I doubt it would get off the ground with the fuel shut off.

The shutoff valve was open. The selector valve was installed incorrectly and closed to the fuel tanks. The only fuel available was in the header tank. No runup or taxi.
 
Well, by now after 41 posts the OP should have a pretty good idea to check the fuel shut off valve and maybe a fuel selector. Anything else he should have checked?

What have you focused on when buying a Skywagon? Especially an 0-470 powered 185?
 
The shutoff valve was open. The selector valve was installed incorrectly and closed to the fuel tanks. The only fuel available was in the header tank. No runup or taxi.
Yep- know of one that the little raised plastic trim piece that prevents turning the selector to the “off” position was omitted after annual- normally if the handle is aligned fore/aft, you’re on both, but this time it was 180* from that- long leg happened to be pointing aft, but pilot didn’t catch it. Made it back to runway and proceeded to clean underwear...
 
All that being said- I’d look at the exact same things on a 470 powered 185 as if it had the 520. The 470’s are great engines- i or o. As close to bulletproof as anything continental ever made...
 
If not for mechanics turning fuel off for maintenance, mine wouldn’t have moved from both for 25 years.
Friend of mine could not get his plane started the other day, had the cowling off to diagnose before he figured out it was exactly this....[emoji2]

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
 
To the original question? If I was considering an ex-Air Force airplane that had a “hard life” I’d want to know the airframe TT, damage history, maintenance history, and where it spent it’s life. Then, influenced by those answers, I’d read the Cessna SID to review where Cessna tells us old tired airframe problems hide and how to deal with them.
 
Last edited:
I'll change it up a bit. Focusing on the airframe since a 470 is a 470. You already know about the tail. There's also a fuel AD and a seat rail AD that effect everybody. Not hard to deal with but you have to check them at least every year. The structure up by the brake pedals is a little weak and over the years, you can get cracking on some parts in that area. A biggie that not many have done, the lower gear fitting was a forging with open end grain that is subject to exfoliation corrosion. Really hard to see and if it hasn't been done on an older plane, it probably needs it. My 56 is a mostly desert airplane and mine were shot. You have to peel the belly skin to fix it. I had Beegles do mine several years ago and it was a little over $7000 then. If I think of anything else, I'll post it. Also, I'll see if I can get a photo of my corroded gear fitting. Oh, by the way, mine's a 180, obviously, but they are pretty common.

Wayne
 
A biggie that not many have done, the lower gear fitting was a forging with open end grain that is subject to exfoliation corrosion. Really hard to see and if it hasn't been done on an older plane, it probably needs it.

Wayne

This is a biggie. The angles that tie these to the belly skins are almost always cracked on older airplanes too. Odds are good that a few rivet heads are sheared off between the angle and the out gear bracket at the very least. At some point Cessna upped a lot of the rivets around here from 5s to 6s, I assume because of all of this. I've also seen the rivets on the inboard bracket shear. This whole area takes a beating and needs a once over twice regularly.

The hockey stick angle on the tail is a hotspot for problems. This AD is actually a good one despite all of the internet bitching about it. In 1977 Cessna upped the rive size holding this to the tail skin to 5s where they are countersunk on the horizontal stab fairing. I think this is a good idea if you have a reason to be there. I've seen these sheared a lot too.

The gear alignment is most likely a mess. Every airplane that comes in to my shop for the first time I do an alignment on and they are always a mess.

The tailwheel steering is usually screwed up. The manuals are **** on how to set up a scott tailwheel, and for some reason most trike mechanics don't take the time to figure it out. They are no fun to fly with bad tailwheel steering. I'm a fan of the tailwheel lock too. Make sure the tailwheel head is epoxied to the spring too, if it isn't you'll probably be replacing the head because its cracked after a while.

The rudder rigging is usually screwed up. Make sure you are getting full, unrestricted travel per the book. Not sure why these are screwed up but they usually are. Set it up per the late model manual and you'll be fine.

The horizontal trim system is usually a mess. Check the roll pins at the wheel and replace them. They are usually a 5-800 hour item. The better fix is to update the wheel like the late models so the sprocket is riveted to the wheel and then you'll never have roll pin issues again. I pretty much always replace the KP6A bearings in the jackscrews, and about half of them get new male threads from Univair since they are 15 minutes from my shop. The threads are rarely damaged in my experience, but the area where the bearing rides is boogered up pretty regularly. Rig is per the manual and it works great. It is a 500 hr item to clean, inspect, and grease the jackscrews, follow that, it's worth it.

That early bird should have clevelands, but they are older than the hills. Give them a good once over. Sometimes they get swapped to mccauleys, which I don't have a problem with if they are 2 piece wheels, not a fan of the 3 piece but my dad flew on them forever without problems.

An old bird like that may have a ton of wear on the flap system. Look over the tracks closely. They are likely to have a wear spot at the flaps 20 position, maybe at others, but I see it at flaps 20 a lot because we use that for takeoff with lots of thrust every flight. Check where the tracks meet the rear spar, lots of cracks show up here. See a recent Juan Browne video with some pics of this on his buddy's 180. Check the pulleys for the flap system under the floor at station 65 (rear doorpost). They like to crack and leave you with a split flap condition.

Make sure the ailerons have 5 weights. Most of the rest of the 170Bs, 172s, 175s, 180s, 182s, all use the same aileron, but I'm pretty sure the 185 is the only one with 5 weights.

Check that the header tank has a fuel sump. That's an old AD that is a good one. There is an STC that is an AMOC for the AD that I like. If you want I can dig up the number.

I think there was an AD or a service letter on the control T having internal corrosion near the bottom, I'd look in to that. I don't recall the details, but it was a bad deal.

The engine mount on the early bird is pretty light. I'd consider swapping to a later float mount. I think its worth the weight.

It probably came with a generator. There is a Cessna service kit to update it to an alternator if you want. I'm not sure if I would though.

The early airbox (pre 1973ish) and associated rube Goldberg linkage sucks. If I had an early model I wanted to keep, I'd probably figure out a way to update it to the later throttle/mixture controls. Odds are the airbox is cracked and the bearings in it are played out.

Setting up the fuel injection on these is black magic unless you RTFI and have the gauges.

Lots of these still running around with the original oil screen. Cessna SK210-160 is the stock oil filter adapter. I like it, some folks don't.

Check the cowl flap hinges. They get worn and then you lose a cowl flap, expensive to replace these days.

I don't think any of the early 185s had the boot cowl assembled with flush rivets like early 180s. If it did, look them over close. They tend to smoke after any hard use. They look cool, but they don't stand up to rough use.

The rear seats on the early models kind of suck. I like the big Cessna bench that was used up through the 75 model. It can be adapted to that one if it isn't set up for it already. the rear seat belt provisions leave a bit to be desired, but its easy to update with shoulder harnesses. AK185-52 I think...

That's a few things that pot to mind real quick. I'll see if I come up with any more.
 
Last edited:
This is a biggie. The angles that tie these to the belly skins are almost always cracked on older airplanes too. Odds are good that a few rivet heads are sheared off between the angle and the out gear bracket at the very least. At some point Cessna upped a lot of the rivets around here from 5s to 6s, I assume because of all of this. I've also seen the rivets on the inboard bracket shear. This whole area takes a beating and needs a once over twice regularly.

The hockey stick angle on the tail is a hotspot for problems. This AD is actually a good one despite all of the internet bitching about it. In 1977 Cessna upped the rive size holding this to the tail skin to 5s where they are countersunk on the horizontal stab fairing. I think this is a good idea if you have a reason to be there. I've seen these sheared a lot too.

The gear alignment is most likely a mess. Every airplane that comes in to my shop for the first time I do an alignment on and they are always a mess.

The tailwheel steering is usually screwed up. The manuals are **** on how to set up a scott tailwheel, and for some reason most trike mechanics don't take the time to figure it out. They are no fun to fly with bad tailwheel steering. I'm a fan of the tailwheel lock too. Make sure the tailwheel head is epoxied to the spring too, if it isn't you'll probably be replacing the head because its cracked after a while.

The rudder rigging is usually screwed up. Make sure you are getting full, unrestricted travel per the book. Not sure why these are screwed up but they usually are. Set it up per the late model manual and you'll be fine.

The horizontal trim system is usually a mess. Check the roll pins at the wheel and replace them. They are usually a 5-800 hour item. The better fix is to update the wheel like the late models so the sprocket is riveted to the wheel and then you'll never have roll pin issues again. I pretty much always replace the KP6A bearings in the jackscrews, and about half of them get new male threads from Univair since they are 15 minutes from my shop. The threads are rarely damaged in my experience, but the area where the bearing rides is boogered up pretty regularly. Rig is per the manual and it works great. It is a 500 hr item to clean, inspect, and grease the jackscrews, follow that, it's worth it.

That early bird should have clevelands, but they are older than the hills. Give them a good once over. Sometimes they get swapped to mccauleys, which I don't have a problem with if they are 2 piece wheels, not a fan of the 3 piece but my dad flew on them forever without problems.

An old bird like that may have a ton of wear on the flap system. Look over the tracks closely. They are likely to have a wear spot at the flaps 20 position, maybe at others, but I see it at flaps 20 a lot because we use that for takeoff with lots of thrust every flight. Check where the tracks meet the rear spar, lots of cracks show up here. See a recent Juan Browne video with some pics of this on his buddy's 180. Check the pulleys for the flap system under the floor at station 65 (rear doorpost). They like to crack and leave you with a split flap condition.

Make sure the ailerons have 5 weights. Most of the rest of the 170Bs, 172s, 175s, 180s, 182s, all use the same aileron, but I'm pretty sure the 185 is the only one with 5 weights.

Check that the header tank has a fuel sump. That's an old AD that is a good one. There is an STC that is an AMOC for the AD that I like. If you want I can dig up the number.

I think there was an AD or a service letter on the control T having internal corrosion near the bottom, I'd look in to that. I don't recall the details, but it was a bad deal.

The engine mount on the early bird is pretty light. I'd consider swapping to a later float mount. I think its worth the weight.

It probably came with a generator. There is a Cessna service kit to update it to an alternator if you want. I'm not sure if I would though.

The early airbox (pre 1973ish) and associated rube Goldberg linkage sucks. If I had an early model I wanted to keep, I'd probably figure out a way to update it to the later throttle/mixture controls. Odds are the airbox is cracked and the bearings in it are played out.

Setting up the fuel injection on these is black magic unless you RTFI and have the gauges.

Lots of these still running around with the original oil screen. Cessna SK210-160 is the stock oil filter adapter. I like it, some folks don't.

Check the cowl flap hinges. They get worn and then you lose a cowl flap, expensive to replace these days.

I don't think any of the early 185s had the boot cowl assembled with flush rivets like early 180s. If it did, look them over close. They tend to smoke after any hard use. They look cool, but they don't stand up to rough use.

The rear seats on the early models kind of suck. I like the big Cessna bench that was used up through the 75 model. It can be adapted to that one if it isn't set up for it already. the rear seat belt provisions leave a bit to be desired, but its easy to update with shoulder harnesses. AK185-52 I think...

That's a few things that pot to mind real quick. I'll see if I come up with any more.

THAT is some great intel!

MTV
 
Dunno about the later models, but the crossover on my 53 180 incorporates the vent & is mounted at the extreme forward edge of the tanks. Thanks would have to be really full to cross feed thru that, at least on the ground.
FWIw I added fuel to just the LH side after my last flight, and left the fuel selector in "off". Two days later, the added fuel is still on the same side.
 
Even with the fuel selector on one tank the crossed vent line was worse on floats, especially with the float tails way up on the bank. It took a few years to figure out either let it float tail down, or finish filling the wet wing tanks just before the flight. Heat soaking from sun made it worse. The C-185 would develop a fuel sheen from a vent on the water near it on startup which was concerning. But after a few minutes aloft the problem evaporated.

Gary
 
Last edited:
Iain,
There are a few threads on these Ex-SAAF 185's on avcom.co.za.
Also there is someone at Wonderboom who had several, I think.
 
Back
Top