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Thread: Pumping gas from containers into the wings while on the ground

  1. #41

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    Recommended fuel transfer pump

    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    OMG , I would never put "DODGE" fuel in my airplane , dont ya know how dangerous that is , You must use Ford and on the one off Chevy fuel but never DODGE.

    I just got the transfer pump Eskflyer recommended and Holy Cow does it work very, very well. No more straining and lifting up then and possibly damaging my wings with cans or bags to add fuel. This bad boy really works!. That tip alone was worth whatever it costs to belong to this group. THANKS! P.S. I'll burn Dodge gas or even Ford gas; no problemo!
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  2. #42
    JP
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    I too love how this pump works , and the nice kit it is contained in along with the various hoses and connections. I had no problem just laying the fuel bags against my tire and putting the hose in and then running the output side up to the tank to fill. Yes it works wonders.
    Don't tell my wife I was finally right about something. Lol
    Glad you are liking the fuel pump.
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  3. #43
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    Ordered one to save my joints on floats - thanks for the link

    Gary
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    As I mature it takes 2-3 trips to fill a wing tank it used to take just one. I got all day to do a day's work.

    Gary
    A few months ago, I was standing on an 8.50 tire and fell backwards, sustaining 11 fractured ribs, 5 fractured vertebrae, and a punctured lung. It still hurts.

    If my only way to fly out was to tote a 30# bag up onto the wing, Iíd rather just push the SOS button on the SPOT.

  5. #45

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    I have a friend that built this with a harbor freight transfer pump. He says he likes it, but it's a fairly recent build.

    I didn't ask if I could post his photo, so I removed the N number.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/12-vol...ump-66784.html


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  6. #46
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Now I'm thinking about a grounding or common mode wire for this kind of portable setup. No real answers until see the pump.

    Gary

  7. #47
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    Iím jittery about those alligator connectors. Why not use battery clamps?

    Knowing me, Iíd tug on the hose and bump the connection, and sparks would fly.


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    I’m jittery about those alligator connectors. Why not use battery clamps?

    Knowing me, I’d tug on the hose and bump the connection, and sparks would fly.


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    Good catch RV.

    The comments about "jury rigged", well, there is half assed jury rigging, and jury rigging done right. Checking my logs....it's more like 24 years I've been up pumping. Sure it's easier to have the fuel truck meet you on the ramp, and go drink coffee while the line boy/girl/women deals with it, but in 24 years (longer in burning mogas,, pushing 40, just up pumping for 24) I've saved, by my reckoning, $28,800.00, More, when one considers I didn't have to earn more than that and pay income taxes, call it 30K.. More Importantly, my setup allows me to easily and (apparently) safely refuel where there ARE no FBO fuel pumps, but there IS a mo gas station. Again, not a single drop of fuel on the wing during
    all that time.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    Iím jittery about those alligator connectors. Why not use battery clamps?

    Knowing me, Iíd tug on the hose and bump the connection, and sparks would fly.


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    Good catch RV.

    The comments about "jury rigged", well, there is half assed jury rigging, and jury rigging done right. Checking my logs....it's more like 24 years I've been up pumping. Sure it's easier to have the fuel truck meet you on the ramp, and go drink coffee while the line boy/girl/women deals with it, but in 24 years (longer in burning mogas,, pushing 40, just up pumping for 24) I've saved, by my reckoning, $28,800.00, More, when one considers I didn't have to earn more than that and pay income taxes, call it 30K.. More Importantly, my setup allows me to easily and (apparently) safely refuel where there ARE no FBO fuel pumps, but there IS a mo gas station. Again, not a single drop of fuel on the wing during
    all that time.

  10. #50
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    And seal the supply tank opening to excessive fume escape as safely as possible. Fuel vapors like to escape the tank. After all the years packing fuel up and over a portable pump would make the job safer. Ground based tanks are prohibited where I now park at FAI Floatpond. Some have trailers or pickups with tanks. This way I can transfer from 5 gallon jugs to my three tanks w/o lifting the fuel, and use the vehicle or aircraft battery for power. Oh, and still keep that fire extinguisher handy.

    Gary
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  11. #51

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    Spent 12 days in a Burn ICU, second and third degree burns. I donít use plastic jugs period for gasoline or avgas. Wouldnít wish the experience on anyone. Also witnessed blue flame coming out of a fuel tank during refueling operation, the guy put out the fire by placing the fuel cap back on removing the oxygen component. Be careful out there, crazy things happen.


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    ill use get a cap and install the fitting thru the cap just like the pour spout is for our fuel bags will leave the cap in the fuel box with pump when done.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XD7HG63/ref=emc_b_5_i?th=1

    I like the cap idea to secure everything while you pump, but it is imperative to make sure that either your fuel venting is greater than what your pump puts out, which doubtful since your vent is your cap, or your pump is pretty anemic.

    I own an airplane that once had the wings rebuilt to the tune of $60K (wet wing) due to the use of a large banjo trash pump for fueling from the single point. This is of course an extreme example, but the concept remains the same.

    Take care, Rob
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  13. #53
    JP
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    Yes, I thought I would not have to point out the obvious , but the cap is just to secure the line hose going into the fuel bag not make it airtight.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    Yes, I thought I would not have to point out the obvious , but the cap is just to secure the line hose going into the fuel bag not make it airtight.
    Doh, I'm a goober... I thought you were going through a cap on the other side.
    Sometimes pointing out the obvious isn't even enough

  15. #55
    JP
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    Now that there is funny Mr.

  16. #56
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    That harbor freight moving dolly rig sends chills down my spine. Multiple things very unsafe with that. And I am by no means the safety cops.

    Tractor supply sells a GPI GASOLINE APPROVED 12v pump. Itís a kit that can be adapted to drums, truck tanks, portables whatever. I made 30 gal portable tank out of an aluminum tank scraped from a boat and the GPI pump.

    Tank made of aluminum-no sparks, min static
    Gasoline approved pump
    Tank vent
    Grounding wire and clamp
    LONG leads to connect and disconnect battery at least 6 feet from the fuel.

    Iíll get pictures when I get back home, but the whole set up was less than $300 well worth not spilling, busting my ass with jerry cans or burning down my truck and the plane at the same time.





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  17. #57
    JP
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    GEEEEEEESH, the question has been answered and you guys that cant think outside the box even a little bit are so far out there. I have been filling gas cans since about 1973. OMG I was abused by my parents for teaching me how to properly fill gas cans plastic metal glass ect, vehicles airplanes since I was 7. I am sorry for those that have had an incident and injured. but dammit guys if you want to be truly safe go crawl under 6' of dirt and call it done. Im going to continue the way we have and enjoy life and continue to fly and fill my sleds my motorcycle my airplane my side x side my chainsaw and everything else with the ohhhh so dangerous plastic fuel jugs / fuel bags / my approved for gasoline bought on amazon made in America fuel pump kit. loosen up be safe and go fly.
    just my 2 cents and with inflation that aint worth #%it
    JP
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    GEEEEEEESH, the question has been answered and you guys that cant think outside the box even a little bit are so far out there. I have been filling gas cans since about 1973. OMG I was abused by my parents for teaching me how to properly fill gas cans plastic metal glass ect, vehicles airplanes since I was 7. I am sorry for those that have had an incident and injured. but dammit guys if you want to be truly safe go crawl under 6' of dirt and call it done. Im going to continue the way we have and enjoy life and continue to fly and fill my sleds my motorcycle my airplane my side x side my chainsaw and everything else with the ohhhh so dangerous plastic fuel jugs / fuel bags / my approved for gasoline bought on amazon made in America fuel pump kit. loosen up be safe and go fly.
    just my 2 cents and with inflation that aint worth #%it
    JP

    Actually, being safe is what all this discussion is about. I've known two fellows who were badly burned in fueling incidents with airplanes. There's a reason "licensed" fueling facilities have lots of safeguards, little things like bonding wires, etc.

    Visit a burn victim in a burn ward sometime.....

    MTV
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  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by fhu667 View Post
    I have a friend that built this with a harbor freight transfer pump. He says he likes it, but it's a fairly recent build.

    I didn't ask if I could post his photo, so I removed the N number.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/12-vol...ump-66784.html


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    Everyone should watch how fuel fumes flow (an IR scope/camera will show it) if they come out from being disturbed, they then spill out and run down to the ground and in this case possibly flowing over the battery. This one and the larger transfer tank/pump previously shown in this thread would be much safer with the battery mounted high and away or better yet remote. Oh and loose the alligator clips, use a hard clamps with a high mounted switch to get the arcing devise out of harms way.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 02-16-2022 at 11:32 AM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Everyone should watch how fuel fumes flow (an IR scope/camera will show it) if they come out from being disturbed, they then spill out and run down to the ground and in this case possibly flowing over the battery. This one and the larger transfer tank/pump previously shown in this thread would be much safer with the battery mounted high and away or better yet remote. Oh and loose the alligator clips, use a hard clamps with a high mounted switch to0 get the arcing devise out of harms way.
    in an open environment outside fumes are not going to accumulate to a level that vegas will give you odds on blowing up. If this was the case then we would be seeing planes, boats, cars, tractors and every other form of motorsports blowing up daily and in huge numbers. I am shocked that half of you folks actually get out of the safe room in the house and actually enjoy flying. How is it possible that millions of gallons of gas is transferred daily without the entire world having become a giant fireball?

    I know a guy that wrecked a plane once so we better all sell the planes and take up knitting because its much safer than enjoying life.

  21. #61
    JP
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    I know a guy that wrecked a plane once so we better all sell the planes and take up knitting because its much safer than enjoying life.[/QUOTE]


    OhhNo mr. I know a guy who died while knitting, he got tangled up and fell down in the yarn while throwing his hand's in the air over reading some posts about the dangers of transferring gas into his plane. he had nothing to live for anymore.

  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by akavidflyer View Post
    How is it possible that millions of gallons of gas is transferred daily without the entire world having become a giant fireball?
    Because they do it properly, and I've worked in the oil patch enough to respect that.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 02-16-2022 at 12:40 PM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  23. #63

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    Where's George when we need him?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Because they do it properly.

    BULL#&it , we have not blown up so you are telling we are doing it wrong and dangerously but then you just say we are doing it properly. cant have both worlds mr.
    Last edited by eskflyer; 02-16-2022 at 12:48 PM.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Because they do it properly, and I've worked in the oil patch enough to respect that.
    I've only been in the oil patch for 30 yrs so far. Properly? You mean refueling motorsports vehicles from plastic cans with the engine running? Hot fueling from all kinds of "makeshift" containers? Racers dumping fuel in seconds into the cars without bond straps tied to the grid?

    Are the switches used in the planes intrinsically safe and all connections explosion proof? if they are not, how could you possibly sit in your ticking time bomb of an airplane and throw the switch to start it. Its "possible" that you have an undetected gas leak and fumes are built up inside the cowling just waiting for you to hit the starter... See where I am going with this? We can what if the world to death and take every bit of fun out of our lives if we really allow ourselves to do it.

    How about using a tiny bit of common sense (I know, its a dirty word these days) and not being a fear monger.
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  26. #66
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    Red face

    Like the other guy My bro. I have worked in the oilfield also and am presently at work in the oilfield. Been doing since the mid 80's. Im fixing to go do a dangerous chemical transfer from a truck to a tote. in high static conditions the ARCTIC. Yes we will use a ground and spill containment and proper PPE. does stuff go wrong yep am I worried NOPE. Do we do the job properly yep. If I even thought for one little minute what I was doing with my fueling was dangerous and could blow myself and my toys up ie airplane sleds bikes ect. I would not do it. Do we need to be cautious and use our heads yep. GO FLY GUYS HAVE FUN ENJOY THE AIR TODAY BECAUSE ITS BEING POISONED BY OUR AIRPLANES AND BURNING FOSSIL FUELS AND WE ARE ALL GOIN TO DIE FROM IT.

  27. #67
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    Knock it off.

    We're in aviation. We always strive to make each operation as safe as possible and all the while knowing that we can't possible account for all variables. Ideas have been put forward and the pros and cons have been discussed for these different ideas. Now make your own decision. What ever method you use, just keep in mind the dangers of handling your particular fuel (they all differ slightly). Then make sure that you are as safe as possible each and every time you do it. Even if you only have one fuel related fire in your life time, it can leave you without a plane, without your health, or dead.

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  28. #68
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    Wow, this changed from a thread with some useful info into kind of a flame fest. Too bad.

    A friend of mine recently bought a fueling set-up consisting of two 7.5 gallon cans that look like the one pictured in post #45,
    plus a twirly hand pump.
    Seems to work pretty well, he needs to buy some more limber hose for it though.
    I suggested that he count the twirls required to pump a gallon,
    then if he knows how much he wants to put in, he can just count the twirls,
    instead of repeatedly stopping to check the level in the tank.

    FWIW I have four 5 gallon cans that I've been using for over 20 years to fuel with mogas.
    I just pack one up the ladder, set it atop the wing,
    then maneuver the spout down into the tank & lay the can on it's side to drain.
    I've been doing this for so long that even when I put in 100LL,
    I pump it into my cans & put it in the airplane the same as I do the mogas.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  29. #69

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    I don't doubt that there is some miniscule risk of fire when refueling from plastic jerry cans. However, I've lived in arctic conditions for over fifty years and have never heard of a single refueling accident up here. That includes the hundreds of ATV's, boats and snowmobiles that are refueled in this way in this community alone. Multiply that by the 25 communities in Nunavut, about the same number in NWT and Yukon, many more in other parts of northern Canada. The locals are not at all careful with this stuff but their total ignorance of safety concerns doesn't seem to have affected their survival rate.

    My normal airplane fueling is done from a drum with an electric pump and I always carry enough fuel that I don't usually have to refuel in the field. When I do I use a plastic jerry can and a "jiggle" syphon. I changed the cheap vinyl hose on the syphon to surgical rubber, which stays flexible even at minus 40.
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  30. #70
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    Ok, I will chime in.

    My first ride in a King Air was a medic from Haines to Seattle burn unit. Fueling my boat, spilled some fuel, washed it to the back, went to pump it out- spark at the battery and BOOM!

    The difference between life and death was my saying a profanity as the flames went from the battery 3 feet away towards and then around me- burning everything in it's path. My shout, though poor language, pushed enough of the flame away to stay out of my airway.

    It still hurt. Lots.

    It was not the liquid fuel, it was the fumes that ignited. It was a cool evening, fumes settled down into the hull, not up and away.

    Was not the first time I fuled my boat from the tank in the truck, but reaching into the fire to shut off and remove the fuel nozzle from the tank, and then having to decide to use the one extinguisher to put out the burning fuel tank or the burning sleeve of the jacket I was wearing, (and melting into my skin), that was a lesson in one in one hundred thousand.

    Did I mention burning skin is painful?

    Cheap shortcuts with gas is not something I am willing to put up with anymore. There is a reason 'explosion proof' switches, lights and such are available for people working around fuels and chemicals.

    However you decide, take a little extra care, and time. Buy a BIG fire extinguisher, buy three, to have on hand for your fueling area or truck. the normal bottle you see on a boat or car? That is just enough to maybe clear a 6' path in the flames to escape. If you have more than a 5 gallon bucket sized fire, it won't be enough. Have more than one, as I had to reach back into the fire to get the extinguisher.

    I almost lost my medical permanently due to damage to my hands.

    Fire marshal regulations are all written in someone's blood or charred skin. Please consider that it can happen to any of us.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  31. #71
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    Good closing statement.

    Web
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