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Thread: Control Stick Dimensions??

  1. #1
    supercub's Avatar
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    Control Stick Dimensions??

    Looking for the control stick tubing size and wall thickness. Thanks

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    Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub View Post
    Looking for the control stick tubing size and wall thickness. Thanks

    http://supercubproject.com/drawings/pdfs/A3290674.pdf

    Drawing 40231

    Looks to be 1.14" X 0.035"

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    supercub's Avatar
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    Thanks Grant. Anyone know where 1.14" x .035" tubing is available?

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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Closest would be 1-9/64" tubing. Kind of an odd size. The drawing I believe is for a J3 not a PA-18 although the sticks aren't very different. I was under the impression that a more common size like 1-3/16" was used for cub sticks. Where would you get 1.14" OD tubing?

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    Quite a few wooden broom stick handles on Chinese Walmart brooms seem to have the perfect diameter.

    And they have a pleasingly rounded end for your palm when cut to your preferred length.

    I, of course, have never used one of them for such.

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    supercrow's Avatar
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    It is an odd dimension. Have run into that before.

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    I think Jay at Javron should have it. Owner produced part.
    DENNY

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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Now the real question: long stick or short stick? Straight stick or curved stick?

    Kinda sounds like a Dr. Seuss book

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    From the Northland drawings. Interesting that they called for aluminum or steel. Note the section to be expanded in order to fit over the stub on the torque tube.

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    Tube diameter is determined by what you need to fit into the socket or stub in the pivot. My exp Cub sticks are 1”.

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Tons of previous threads on this subject.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    I think Jay at Javron should have it. Owner produced part.
    DENNY
    Interestingly, the javron sticks I have seen are all smaller than piper, and actually fit inside the stub- makes me wonder if they have a hard time sourcing the correct material too?

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    I think Jay at Javron should have it. Owner produced part.
    DENNY
    It's only an "owner produced part" if it's made in accordance with the approved drawings. An "owner produced part" is a method for the owner to make his own part in lieu of purchasing a Parts Manufacturing Approval part.
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    It's only an "owner produced part" if it's made in accordance with the approved drawings. An "owner produced part" is a method for the owner to make his own part in lieu of purchasing a Parts Manufacturing Approval part.
    Can you please provide a reference to the governing regulation. Your interpretation seems to be more restrictive than AC 20-62E para 4 (n).

    "n. Owner/Operator Produced Part. Parts that were produced by an owner/operator for installation on their own aircraft (i.e., by a certificated air carrier). An owner/operator is considered a producer of a part, if the owner participated in controlling the design, manufacture, or quality of the part. Participating in the design of the part can include supervising the manufacture of the part or providing the manufacturer with the following: the design data, the materials with which to make the part, the fabrication processes, assembly methods, or the quality control (QC) procedures."

    No mention of approved drawings here.

    When I was in partnership on an Aeronca Chief we produced brake pads with no other reference than the worn out originals.
    Last edited by frequent_flyer; 01-11-2022 at 05:11 PM.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    Can you please provide a reference to the governing regulation. You interpretation seems to be more restrictive than AC 20-62E para 4 (n).

    "n. Owner/Operator Produced Part. Parts that were produced by an owner/operator for installation on their own aircraft (i.e., by a certificated air carrier). An owner/operator is considered a producer of a part, if the owner participated in controlling the design, manufacture, or quality of the part. Participating in the design of the part can include supervising the manufacture of the part or providing the manufacturer with the following: the design data, the materials with which to make the part, the fabrication processes, assembly methods, or the quality control (QC) procedures."

    No mention of approved drawings here.

    When I was in partnership on an Aeronca Chief we produced brake pads with no other reference than the worn out originals.
    "(2) Parts produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering their own productand which are shown to conform to FAA-approved data"
    Page 2 https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...-62E_CHG_1.pdf
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    "(2) Parts produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering their own productand which are shown to conform to FAA-approved data"
    Page 2 https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...-62E_CHG_1.pdf

    That paragraph appears to me to provide one means of compliance but not the only means of compliance. It does not define "owner produced parts".

    I found multiple references to owner produced parts that do not reference any requirement for FAA approved data. Here is one -

    https://www.cessnaflyer.org/maintena...lications.html

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Best piece written about owner produced parts by a Fed that was one of the good guys. https://150cessna.tripod.com/obrieno...madeparts.html
    Steve Pierce

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    All the cheap owners that want to buy parts from Javron and get them signed off as an owner produced part, I hope those airplanes never darken my hangar door.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    Can you please provide a reference to the governing regulation. Your interpretation seems to be more restrictive than AC 20-62E para 4 (n).

    "n. Owner/Operator Produced Part. Parts that were produced by an owner/operator for installation on their own aircraft (i.e., by a certificated air carrier). An owner/operator is considered a producer of a part, if the owner participated in controlling the design, manufacture, or quality of the part. Participating in the design of the part can include supervising the manufacture of the part or providing the manufacturer with the following: the design data, the materials with which to make the part, the fabrication processes, assembly methods, or the quality control (QC) procedures."

    No mention of approved drawings here.

    When I was in partnership on an Aeronca Chief we produced brake pads with no other reference than the worn out originals.
    It is in the first part of the definition of “Airworthy” must meet type design or properly altered condition, and be in condition for safe operation.

    If it doesn’t meet the drawings, then it doesn’t meet type design, so the next issue, has it been “properly altered”? If it is a major alteration, it needs approved data. For the definitions of major alteration and minor alteration see 14 CFR 1.1. Now, next issue, unless the act of removal and installation is defined as preventive maintenance, you need an A&P to install that owner produced part!


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    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    It is in the first part of the definition of “Airworthy” must meet type design or properly altered condition, and be in condition for safe operation.

    If it doesn’t meet the drawings, then it doesn’t meet type design, so the next issue, has it been “properly altered”? If it is a major alteration, it needs approved data. For the definitions of major alteration and minor alteration see 14 CFR 1.1. Now, next issue, unless the act of removal and installation is defined as preventive maintenance, you need an A&P to install that owner produced part!
    I don't see anything there that would have prevented my fitting owner produced brake pads without approved drawings. What specifically would have made that illegal or not airworthy?

  21. #21
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    I don't see anything there that would have prevented my fitting owner produced brake pads without approved drawings. What specifically would have made that illegal or not airworthy?
    You make your own brake pads? What is composition and how does it compare to the TSO'd pads?
    Steve Pierce

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    I don't see anything there that would have prevented my fitting owner produced brake pads without approved drawings. What specifically would have made that illegal or not airworthy?
    You really ought to attend an FAA IA renewal meeting (When they have a full blown meeting) and pay attention to what FAA "Legal" has to say.
    N1PA

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    Maybe Mauleguy will chime in and give us an idea of what material to buy.

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    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    You make your own brake pads? What is composition and how does it compare to the TSO'd pads?
    Not "make" but "made". This was for an Aeronca Chief with Goodyear brakes and it was many years ago. They were machined from sheet stock clutch disk material. The composition gave acceptable braking and wear characteristics.

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