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Thread: Best geological area to sell an Exp. 12, 14, and 18

  1. #1

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    Best geological area to sell an Exp. 12, 14, and 18

    I need some help from you guys. Please.

    I have contacted a number of professional aircraft Brokers across the United States to get help selling my 2020 Exp. PA12/3 Blade Catto and Stoker O-340/180hp. Some are in the Southeast, Northeast, Southwest, and Northwest incl. Alaska. They all charge about the same fee and express confidence and professionalism.

    My airplane is currently hangared in Chicagoland about 40 miles west of O’hare airport. The builder and test pilot is there to show the plane and take prospective buyers for a flight to confirm performance and handling. The problem is the brokers all want the plane moved to their business location and I don’t know which area of the States has the biggest pool of likely buyers for such an expensive boutique item. And wouldn’t it be better to keep it where the builder and pilot are close by?

    I always assumed that Alaska or the Pacific Northwest would be the best location, but with every Broker I speak to I become more uncertain.

    The current market appears to be the right time to sell a highly modified, high performance exp. PA12.

    If you had an Exp. PA12 like mine for sale where would you put it up for sale and which broker would you use to handle the sale?

    Please let me know your honest opinions and thoughts. Best wishes and Happy New Year!!! Thank you.

    Paul Heinrich

  2. #2
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    *geographical* area. Sorry just had to be a little pedantic there.
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  3. #3

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    Post it in as many places as you can. Lower the price by 5,000 per week until it sells. If I remember right you have had if for sale for quite some time so whatever price you have been asking it is too high. A PA 12 is not a PA 18 and you put a stock wing on it, trying to sell in the market of high modded wings. Sometimes when you put a lot of money into a plane the only way to get it back out is to fly it out. That would be my honest opinion for what it is worth. DENNY
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  4. #4
    aktango58's Avatar
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    A high end plane, with lots of modifications, would be something folks will travel to see and buy. They will pay the money to have it delivered.

    Advertise everywhere.

    Read Denny's comment again- I agree with him.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  5. #5

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    I might be biased, but I think Alaska would be. Except this time of year things are slow, so it might not be a good time to sell here. Planes start to pop up for sale again in the spring.

  6. #6

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    I shopped for the -12 I bought last spring for a long time. Buying a Super Cub wasn't in my budget and I looked for a long time for a -12 with 150 HP, flaps and extended baggage. A poor man's Super Cub if you will. It was difficult to find one and I took a couple flights half way across the country to look at a couple.

    During my extensive searching I got pretty well versed in what the market for a -12 is. There seems to be a ceiling on a -12 that the market isn't willing to go above. It seems like anything with an asking price that is above the six figure mark just doesn't sell, or lingers on the market for a VERY long time. Who knows what they actually sell for when they finally disappear from whatever site they are advertised on. I bought a nice -12 for nearly half of what I probably would've had to pay for a SC. A relative bargain. But as was mentioned above, it's a -12 and not an -18. Asking prices for what appear to be well used Super Cubs are easily above $100k and it's sometimes ludicrous to see what the asking price is for some nicer ones and they seem to move.

    I have seen your plane on this forum and when you had it on Barnstormer's. It looks like a VERY nice airplane that you obviously put a lot of money and work into. But at the end of the day, no matter how nice it is, it's not a Super Cub. Especially in today's crazy market if there was a buyer out there who was willing to pay what you were asking for it they would've contacted you from your ad on Barnstormer's. I don't think a broker is going to find a buyer who wouldn't see your own ad online and if that buyer is truly interested in your unique airplane he can easily buy a ticket to ORD to come take a look regardless of where he lives. I hope you find a buyer!
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  7. #7
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Never Ever Take your plane to and leave it With a Broker. Once they have it, it is no longer yours. Parts disappear, no rush to sell it, always some excuse. Then you have to go retrieve it and fix it back up to your standards in order to get it saleable again.



  8. #8

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    Nowadays, i don't think a broker is necessary at all. Unlike 30 years ago, it's very easy and cheap to make your plane visible to the world. A broker won't help much in the sale of your plane, i'm thinking. I've seen your ads, it looks like a great plane, but, as said before, it's not an -18. If you have to sell it, you'll probably need to come down on your asking price. A tough pill to swallow.
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  9. #9
    stewartb's Avatar
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    If I wanted to sell a show-stopper Cub variant? I’d have Alaska Aircraft Sales park it at their Lake Hood Strip hangar. There isn’t a better place to get buyer’s eyes on a good Cub, and eyes-on is the best way to attract a buyer.

  10. #10

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    Thanks, guys! You are fabulous.

    I’ve had 3 legitimate offers in response to my Barnstormers ad to which I counter-offered $10,000 less than my original asking price. I figured they would respond, but they all went quiet. Now I wonder if they were serious buyers. It’s obvious I am a terrible salesman, hence my misguided outreach to Aircraft Brokers. I’ll take your advice to keep it where it is for now, advertise it more, and lower the price a bit.

    Yes, the wings don’t have slots, slats, or any of the super high tech flap/aileron systems. I used original PA14 wings because they work just fine without them.

    And, yes, it is not a SuperCub. For all the reasons we already know, in many ways it’s better for the vast majority of the flying conditions and missions of the members here. After all, it will easily TO and land in under 300’ and climbs at over 2000 fpm. How many strips do we frequent that requires better performance?

    Anyway, the Alaska Airman show may be an option. Should I crate and ship it up to display there and is there someone I could trust to help show it while it’s in AK?

    Should I put it on the new EDO 2000s or keep trying to sell it on wheels?

    Thanks again for all the information and advice.

  11. #11

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    Once again at this point ANY money you put into it will just increase yours loss. Disassemble, crate, ship, reassemble and fix everything broke along the way is a great way to loose another 10-15 grand off the top.
    DENNY
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  12. #12
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    You can justify to yourself (and many would agree) the reasons why it's better than a Super Cub but to buyers of super cubs it's still a PA-12. It may be better but those two numbers on the end just don't fetch the same price as an -18.

    Putting it on floats might not be a bad idea. Even better if it were on amphibs. The build of the plane (constant speed, small tires, stock wings) just doesn't appeal to the crowd used to seeing large tires, long two blade props, and modded wings. It puts your plane in a small niche that in my opinion leans towards the amphib float user group. Someone on the east coast, probably Maine would really enjoy such a plane for lake hopping.

    In any case I honestly don't think Alaska would be the place to sell your plane. Being that it's quick and roomy it's more of a lower 48 plane for covering ground comfortably. Alaska plane buyers look for mainly PA-18's on 35's with lots of HP and wing area. I would wager your plane would fetch less up here than anywhere else.
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  13. #13
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Have you considered doing videos of the plane both static and in flight? That might be a good way to bait the hook.

    Gary
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  14. #14
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WBW1swdpgM

    This is not about an airplane (duh!) but Matt Laidlaw does a fine job demo'ing the Harley. First a walk around showing and explaining the features...then a quick scoot in LA with comments. Something like this for aircraft would reach motivated buyers.

    Gary

  15. #15

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    I had never considered a walk around/in flight video.

    I hear GoPros work well. Allowing the slight drift, pix of installed mounting hardware and suggested locations would help. I gave my daughter a 5Black a year ago so all I’ll have to do is get the correct mounting brackets.

    Funny thing about amphibs—one guy made a low offer on the plane so he could spend the money saved to buy new Wips and a spendy Garmin package which combined cost more that my original asking price. I guess Wip or Garmin won’t sell their products for 80% of the ask.

    Am I wrong to believe he has the money to pay full value for the 12 if his goal is new amphibs and a hands-free FD/autopilot to drive the big screen TV?
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  16. #16
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Give no airplane away unless you're desperate. Consider what it takes to restore them, or even make and keep them airworthy. More $$$$$ every year. In Alaska and Canada it's winter. Not so in Florida or along the Gulf Coast and California. As Spring emerges in a couple of months (that's April up here) pilots that fancy a new plane will compete. Be patient. Promote your plane with sales material like vids, that works.

    Gary

  17. #17

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    Don't let is set for too long or you will be getting questions about cam rust/pitting. If it is flying 75 or more hours a year that is a good thing.
    DENNY
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  18. #18
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Don’t write the value down for being a -12. Cruisers are very popular. The problem you have is guys thinking a -12 is a cheap Cub. A well modded -12 has more performance than most guys can use and more space than an -18. There’s value there. You just need to find the right buyer.
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-09-2022 at 11:09 PM.
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  19. #19

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    I actually prefer the -12 over a Super Cub. I don't need every ounce of extra performance that a SC might give and I feel claustrophobic in a SC. I, along with others, made the comment that the OP's plane isn't a -18 only in reference to the market being different for a Cruiser than a Cub. Not that they are completely inferior.

    When it comes to SC's you have new CC's on the upper end of the spectrum commanding prices pushing $400k. A guy looking at buying a SC can pay well over $100k and convince himself that he's getting a bargain because he didn't pay $200k more for a new Carbon Cub. On the other hand, there is no such upward pressure in the Cruiser market. Just like in Real Estate, you don't necessarily want to own the most expensive house on the block because the cheaper houses down the street put a drag on how much you can get for it. In this case, the OP is the owner of the most expensive house on the block.
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  20. #20

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    I found an old post and pics on the plane. Nice looking plane and would do OK in warm weather smooth strips. Not really ready for Alaska (5-10 grand of stuff would fix that) But that would be for the buyer to do not you. It has been over two years now, is someone flying it often? Let that motor sit any longer and you can add the price of pulling a jug to inspect the cam to your overhead. The really good 12 pilots that can hang and embarrass 18 drivers already have planes so you market is very small. We had a local guy that had a beautiful rebuild on a cub done up here. Perfect Alaska plane with all bells and whistles. Had some issues and decided to sell two years latter. Got to within a few grand of asking price and held on to it. Over a year latter sold it for 30 grand less. If it has not sold in two years you are asking too much, once again my opinion. https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...893#post758893
    DENNY
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  21. #21
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    There is a buyer for every sale, but remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. So, advertise, advertise, advertise. Barnstormers, Trade-A-Plane, SC.org, and anywhere else that'll run the ad. Photos are crucial. Videos even better. FWIW, I don't much like the 3 blade prop. Specs aside, I tried one on a Husky and to be honest, I thought it underperformed compared to the 2 blade it replaced. You might do better if you had a good 2 blade, Borer, Cato, or one of the newer options - and larger tires.

    Middle men are important links in capitalism, but why would they better describe the airplane than you? And would they be as believable as the guy who flies it? Many of the crusties on this site (including me) would be suspicious of a broker for a Bush Plane, and think they'd have to overpay through a broker - even if that's totally unfair to say. It's not a Cirrus or King Air. I also recommend avoiding glowing phrases in ads. Stick to the facts, and people will better believe what you say.

    Anyone who is inclined to want your PA-12 will talk themselves into buying it.. Different breed of cat here.
    Last edited by WhiskeyMike; 01-10-2022 at 06:39 PM.
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  22. #22

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    Try putting it on some of the Facebook Big Tire Pilot/ STOL group pages. There are a lot of people who think they want to be "bush" pilots and many of them have more money than airplane knowledge.
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  23. #23

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    Thanks, everyone, for all the effort.

    Like Denny suggested in another thread, It is impossible to anticipate and satisfy the needs and desires of a future buyer,

    When I first started building this 12 I built it the way I thought best: light, simple, and powerful. It never occurred to me that I would lose my medical so quickly.

    Expect the best, but plan for the worst. In life….

    **** happens.
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  24. #24
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    It never occurred to me that I would lose my medical so quickly.

    Expect the best, but plan for the worst. In life….

    **** happens.
    Without telling us why, are you not able to get the Basic Med?
    N1PA

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