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Pilot removal/fitting Rear Stick in SuperCub (or Stearman or DH82) etc

Out makes sense...
In makes sense....

Quickly convertible?
Dual controls in for instruction out for passengers and cargo. That is the norm in helicopters for a reason. Passengers, cargo, and loose seatbelts have 'piloted' aircraft into the ground.
 
I always have my stick in with a passenger. It is nice to give them a chance in case I have a medical issue in flight. Stuff happens. DENNY
 
Could you perhaps write up a removal and reinstallation procedure and work with an engineer to get that procedure approved for owner maintenance by the CAA? There definitely isn't a published procedure so you would need to write one up. It's simple enough that it shouldn't be a huge issue.

The American in me says don't worry about big brother reading forums and busting you for theoretical violations. The only reason the FAA doesn't push enforcement of asinine rules is because of mass disobedience. Don't bow down to government overreach or it will just keep happening.
 
Could you perhaps write up a removal and reinstallation procedure and work with an engineer to get that procedure approved for owner maintenance by the CAA? There definitely isn't a published procedure so you would need to write one up. It's simple enough that it shouldn't be a huge issue.

The American in me says don't worry about big brother reading forums and busting you for theoretical violations. The only reason the FAA doesn't push enforcement of asinine rules is because of mass disobedience. Don't bow down to government overreach or it will just keep happening.


yup that’s probably what I will end up doing, write a procedure, have my engineers add it to my authorisation for pilot maintenance, and have my other 3 instructors also authorised. The duplicate can then be signed out by any rated pilot 😀
Usual story, the rules have been there forever but blind eye turned, now someone has a good idea 😲
 
Perhaps I'm thick as well as dull, but...

I still don't understand the reason to remove the stick. Practicalities and legalities aside, why?

Given what we've learned from this thread, it must be a doozy of a reason.

Just wondering. You don't have to tell us. But I'm perplexed.

Its taken in and out so it doesn’t get jammed while unattended. Also common practice in other tandem seat trainers, especially aerobatic ones. There are plenty of stories (even on this thread) about sticks nor being fitted properly, or jamming on cushions etc. CAA want traceability when there is an incident.
 
Bill,
This shouldn't be too much of an obstacle.
You should be able to get a maintenance task approval to do it after having some training signed off by your maintenance provider, especially a Part 145 shop, then you should be able to fit and remove the stick, then as far as the duplicate goes, it can be carried out by another rated pilot including a PP. Refer CAA 43.113 (b)(2)(iii)
Then it will have to be documented as per 43.113 (c)
Make up a worksheet that contains all the info required by the rule and set it up just for the duals
I would contact John Keyzer at CAA and talk to him, I would be surprised if he wasn't helpful and he should be able to guide you in the right direction.
As far as taking the stick out when you send someone solo, that would a bit of a grey area, possibly adopting a process where everything (seatbelts and cushions) are properly secured could be a way around it.
I know of pilots who have approvals to fit and remove Hughes 500 Duals including the tail rotor pedal assembly, so I can't see how a Cub rear stick is going to be an issue.
Cheers
Jim
 
Its taken in and out so it doesn’t get jammed while unattended. Also common practice in other tandem seat trainers,

A- Thank you for the explanation.

B - It's not "common". I've only been flying since 77 but I'd never even heard of this before. I've owned several tandem AC too. Perhaps it's a regional preference. Either way, at least now I know and understand.
 
Its taken in and out so it doesn’t get jammed while unattended. Also common practice in other tandem seat trainers, especially aerobatic ones. There are plenty of stories (even on this thread) about sticks nor being fitted properly, or jamming on cushions etc. CAA want traceability when there is an incident.

FWIW Bill, I agree. Except for the odd rented one, I have never flown a Cub or Tiger solo without out the 2nd seat stick removed. Nor my father before me, so that covers about 70 years of operations in New Zealand.

There are lots of things we do with Cubs that are not in the Flight Manual. Glider towing and banner towing being good examples. I seem to recall there's nothing in there about flying with the door open either. I wanted CAA to provide a Flight Manual supplement to transfer the towing information across from the old home grown Flight Manual to the Piper one when they changed, but they were the usual CAA unhelpful, so I don't ask them for anything anymore. They're applying 21st century combativeness to early 20th century design rules. Crazy.

A Flight Manual supplement from a design organisation might be the only solution, I'd imagine even your own approval will require a duplicate, which your student can't provide until you've rated him or her! However, my experience with the design organisations is they're often have just as much of a road block attitude as the CAA. I'd be interested to hear your final solution......
 
At least in my plane, there might be a safety reason for taking out the rear stick. When the front seat of my SC is all the way back, the rear stick hits the back of the seat and then both sticks can't move all the way forward. The sticks lose some forward travel when this happens. I flew around in the plane for over a year before I realized this was happening. I assume that it is a rigging thing and not a design issue.

It never occurred to me to take out the rear stick, so I made a little label for the instrument panel to remind me to pull the front seat forward after I get in.

It might be a good idea for other owners to check this out in their plane. Check it with a big lunch bag in the storage pouch on the back of the seat, too. :)
 
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This is why I take mine out.
PXL_20211230_213457470.MP.jpg
 

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The Husky is approved for a push pin for the rear stick, maybe there may be something on the fly husky .org site that could be used for supporting information.
 
Sometimes the fore and aft position (or range) of the sticks can be adjusted at the elevator turnbuckles. Or as I recall having to do.

Gary
 
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