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Thread: Summit Skis

  1. #41
    Narwhal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Summit brackets don't need any holes. Lower shock strut bolt and 2 brake torque plate holes

    Glenn
    Thanks, that makes things easier. I guess I misunderstood what they were trying to convey.
    Last edited by Narwhal; 12-25-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #42
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    You will match drill the two brake caliper holes when you install them. I thought on there site there was install instructions. Mine came with some. And I think the long bit to drill. The other hole is the lower shock strut. I leave the brackets on year round.


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  3. #43
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Pictures?

  4. #44
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    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  5. #45
    Narwhal's Avatar
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    I rechecked my box today to make sure I hadn't overlooked the instructions, and there was nothing. So I emailed Mike from Summit and he emailed them to me on Christmas! Very nice. It all makes sense now.

  6. #46
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
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    Glenn
    Not much different from Dan’s. I think I’ll pursue something more substantial.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Not much different from Dan’s. I think I’ll pursue something more substantial.
    Its very stout

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  8. #48
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    How are they in 2' of new snow?

    Gary

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    How are they in 2' of new snow?

    Gary
    We were in over 3' of snow last winter and still got out ok. Not great but using what worked we were ok

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  10. #50
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    So those of you on Instagram probably follow Stol Iceland. These guys are innovative outdoor adventurists of the best kind.

    For years they’ve been flying around with mountain bikes hanging below their SQ wings. When the surf is up they add a belly rack for surfboard transportation to the beach. And of course when it’s winter they lash skis to the jury struts and off they go.

    But the best part for me is how they strived for an ideal wheel ski.

    In my opinion, it’s very hard to beat the versatility and ease of use that is obtained by a “Summit-style” penetration ski. For non-commercial users one simply slides the bolt through, hooks the springs and cables and takes off.

    The downfall is perhaps that any penetration ski works better with more horsepower. If you have 160-180-200 then largely one can overcome the wheel drag, whereas 85-90-100 hp may struggle in the wrong snow.

    But for someone like myself that lives just outside of the heavy snowfall, the simplicity of use and on/off seems to be a winning factor. Of course, it sure would be nice to not change tires too.

    Back to Iceland, I can’t find it at the moment but I believe in the 2017-18 timeframe they built a 4130 steel tube frame wheel ski for bushwheels. For reasons unknown, they were no happy with it, and built a new version using just aluminum, apparently a load bearing torsion box wrapped in a nicely shaped skin.

    This, for me, would be ideal for those of us putting on/off during the year, leaving the bushwheels in place and keeping the AOA.

    They also claim no noticeable difference in speed.

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  11. #51
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    Lest anyone forgets, Stol Iceland also was one of the first to do something about AOA with a shocked tailwheel mount.

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  12. #52
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Nothing against STOL Iceland but that T3 picture makes my head hurt. There's so many things wrong with the tailwheel setup. Not all things are a step forward.
    Last edited by Crash, Jr.; 12-26-2021 at 05:43 PM.
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  13. #53
    Narwhal's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried running the summits as straight skis? If so, how much better was the performance? I might seriously consider it were it not for the fact that I have to go through the motorized gates at Merrill to get to the ski strip from my hangar, and without installing ski-brakes, that scares me a bit.

  14. #54
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    While I realize that Trick Air and Summit are used all over down south, I really don't see them up here. We see lots of Federal, Landis and Aero skis; those and Fluidyne for wheel skis also.

    I am with Stewart on the small pedestal attachments. While federal AWBs have a fairly narrow connection onto the landing gear, they have a stiff leg adding to the support, making the plane side attach reach from gear fitting all the way down- lots of torque resistance. The ski itself uses a large through bolt that goes through the main ski frame.

    Be-bopping in and out of farm fields with some light snow, or groomed strips we see lots of photos of small attachments probably work for years. Out trapping where we are going over ice ridges, compacted snow/fresh snow/compacted snow in the same run, sometimes with a log hidden in the snow when you first drag it, ski abuse takes on another meaning.

    While Aero skis have their issues, the double attachment (inside and outside of the tires) gives lots of support and reduces twisting torque on a very small bolt. I ran them on a 90 hp champ and they did fantastic, on the cub they were great even at altitude on the glaciers.

    Until we fly down there in the east with you guys and see what you use your planes for, and until you come spend a few days going out on a 'normal' day up here, comparing notes on durability will be a lost cause

    Every ski has it's advantages. If they work for you, enjoy! Just pray you are not the one discovering the maximum side load or frozen clod size the skis can take prior to breaking

    Check your gear bolts and have fun
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  15. #55

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    I think the fitting attached to the gear should do just fine. I run AWB 2500A with bolt on ski fitting and a stiff leg attached to front gear leg. As Aktango58 says it is a very sturdy attachment. I have not heard of problems with the summit pedestals they are actually pretty short, if you had a failure I think it would be in the ski tunnel itself. If you want to reduce stress when turning run a penetrating tail ski. DENNY

  16. #56
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    I bought a pair of Trick Airs from another Alaskan. It was the first time I’d seen them. Until moving to Wolf Lake I never considered penetration skis but these new ski designs look interesting. The single bolt through the pedestal is similar to Summits but with Tricks the attach bracket is welded to the gear. I think the reason we don’t see many Tricks or Summits is economics. Both are more expensive than Airglas and there aren’t many in the used market. Trick Air says the best way to improve performance on their skis is to partially deflate the tire to flatten it and reduce tire drag. That should work with Airglas, too. Never heard it before. Interesting.
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  17. #57
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I guess if the ski tips stay up above the snow they should do ok. Maybe rig them to do that. Once they submarine it's hard to speed up or turn. Looking forward to some pics and reports as the convenience, especially in the Spring as runways melt, would be nice. I assume the bottoms can be made larger if needed?

    Gary
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  18. #58
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    As I eluded to in the post George, I do believe you’re right, the casual users like myself that aren’t using it as commercial travel can get away with a much lighter and potentially less rugged ski than those of you working them.

    Crash, if you don’t like the head angle, or the link setup, or something about what they did to create a better AOA and still retain a shocked tailwheel, why don’t you tell us what that is? Otherwise your post is simply irrelevant.


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  19. #59
    stewartb's Avatar
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    That tailwheel idea? Some ideas are better left on the bar napkin.
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  20. #60
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    I have seen this modification to the Trickair Ski to improve its performance. From what I understand, you taxi into some soft snow and then slip this cover plate under the tire. Deflating the tire a bit helps even more by eliminating the bump from the bottom surface. Some inflation is still necessary to support the cover…….as I understand. Experimental only of course.
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  21. #61
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    I can certainly understand the questions people have about the ski construction and structural integrity. I currently have about 150 pairs of skis in the field, probably 100 of those are my larger SS2300 size. I started out with simply wanting to build a set of skis for my Kitfox and then it developed into a part time / seasonal business.

    A little about how the skis are made, they are built of 100% Carbon fiber with a few Phenolic hard points in key areas. There are steel plates inside of the pedestal area that the ski mounting bracket bolts to. The steel plates are secured in place so that the mounting bracket can be removed if needed. The cable attach point bolts are welded to a large square washer that are bonded into a recessed square pocket in the lower ski skin. This allows the nut to be removed and installed without the bolt spinning and provides a larger surface area for the cable loads. This lower skin recessed pocket matches the contour of the upper skin to provide continuity between the upper and lower skins. Pretty simple method that was recommended to me about 10 years ago by a gentleman at the Alaska Airmens Show. Everything else is all Carbon, the 2 halves of the skis are bonded together forming a monocoque construction. This construction method I learned by building high performance Carbon fiber aircraft. The bolt-on bracket I designed and patented, for the Cub style gear is working very well. I just wanted to design my parts around being as easy as possible for the customer to install, yet be dependable. The bottom HDPE ski skin is CNC cut and the edges are bent up, so it is easy to replace.

    My background in Carbon composites includes 30 years of building Lancair aircraft of which I built about 30 of them, including the Lancair IV/IV-P, Turbines, ES, Legacy, Tigress and Sentry. I designed and built the Garrett powered Lancairs, 330 KTAS. Then I built Carbon Cubs, Kitfox, Rans, Vans RV, Titan T-51s, helicopters, etc. Most recently I was the builder and design consultant for the Nighthawk, an all Carbon fiber surveillance aircraft. So I am still learning a few things thanks to my customers, friends and just people that know more about things than I do (which there are a lot).

    At now 61 years old, I am not interested in getting my skis STC'd as I don't need that headache. I'm thinking more about warm beaches and palm trees. I am always available for a phone call, whether its on a weekday, weekend or a holiday.

    Mike Custard
    Summit Aircraft Skis
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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Trick Air says the best way to improve performance on their skis is to partially deflate the tire to flatten it and reduce tire drag. That should work with Airglas, too. Never heard it before. Interesting.
    As I recall back in the day, I was told that if you deflate your tires inside the Airglass ski very much the sidewalls rub and can damage the tire... Was a long time ago but was a caution I remember being told.

    Peter, the comment about submarine is due to the shallow nose up tips.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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