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Thread: B&C Starter Slow at first

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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    B&C Starter Slow at first

    I recently installed a B&C starter on my C90. Warm starts are normal but when the engine is cold (even “summer cold” not like middle of winter cold) when you press start, it barely has enough torque to turn through the first blade and often stalls there. If you let go of the button and press again it cranks through the same cylinder’s compression stroke and starts normal. I have even replaced the battery (because I switched to the Hawker battery) and even fully charged I still get the same result. Is the starter defective or is this normal? My old pull starter had way more torque. I emailed B&C but they didn’t respond. I guess I will try calling them.

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    You have a bad connection on the 'big' cables. Check each connection (ground and positive) for proper crimp, corrosion and clean, metal to metal contact. Another trick is to connect the battery ground cable directly to the crank case and a smaller braided ground from the crank case to the airframe. Never trust the braided ground soldered to some of the engine mounts.

    Web
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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Good ideas thank you!

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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Web, There is a single braided ground wire from the engine mount to the accessory case. That’s it. The battery negative goes to the frame at the battery. The engine mount is not bonded to the frame either. Is all that original or did someone miss some bonding when it was rebuilt last time? Seems to me like more bonding is needed.

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdischer View Post
    Web, There is a single braided ground wire from the engine mount to the accessory case. That’s it. The battery negative goes to the frame at the battery. The engine mount is not bonded to the frame either. Is all that original or did someone miss some bonding when it was rebuilt last time? Seems to me like more bonding is needed.
    Where is your battery mounted? If it's on the firewall, moving the ground strap to the crank case is easy. If the battery is somewhere else, I like to ground the crank case to one of the screws that are welded to the airframe and stick through the firewall. Also, if your battery is mounted aft of the firewall, make sure that the ground strap connects directly to the airframe and not through a joint like the bolt on the seat leg.

    The braid on the engine mount doesn't work well because the engine mount is usually painted/powder coated, so the ground path has to get past that and then the bolts and hinges to get to the airframe.

    Web
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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Battery is in the aft position behind the passenger. I am going to dig into this tomorrow and get it corrected. Thanks for all your help.

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I would put a volt meter on the starter connection to start and see what kind of voltage drop you have. Feel the braided ground cable at the engine mount to see if it is warm or hook jumper cable between the engine and engine mount and then try battery to fuselage if bad ground is suspect.
    Steve Pierce

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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Thanks. What I gather is that the B&C should spin this little engine just fine unless it isn’t getting enough amps!
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    I had a similar issue with my 180.
    Fresh firewall mounted Odyssey, heavy Energizer starter that checked out good at the local auto electric shop.
    It hesitated getting past the first blade when cold.
    Pulling it through a few blades during pre-flight pretty much solved the issue, but I wasn't happy.
    I added a heavy engine ground cable from starter stud to firewall-- didn't do too much.
    I suspected a funky starter solenoid & just a couple weeks ago swapped that out for a known good one, that helped some.
    I then replaced the elderly solenoid-to-starter cable with new, it cranks perfectly now.
    I guess my point is that it sometimes isn't just one thing, it's a combination of things.
    One thing that can make a big cumulative difference is to disassemble & clean ALL the electrical connections
    all the way from the battery to the starter, and all the grounds.
    And make sure you have a good solid engine ground.
    Last edited by hotrod180; 11-15-2021 at 09:46 AM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Web was correct. The strap from the mount to the case was there but really crusty looking. Upon removal and closer examination it clearly had been heated up. I sanded the pad it attached to, made a new ground strap, and added a #8 wire to the firewall. She spins as she should now. Thanks all.

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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Web was correct. The strap from the mount to the case was there but really crusty looking. Upon removal and closer examination it clearly had been heated up. I sanded the pad it attached to, made a new ground strap, and added a #8 wire to the firewall. She spins as she should now. Thanks all.

    PS: Before anyone comments on those crusty engine mount rubbers, they aren't even a year old! Genuine TCM parts and still garbage rubber.

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  12. #12
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Put a dab of ACF-50 or similar on the ground hardware to help keep the corrosion from getting a start.

    Web
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    ATP, CFII, A&P sdischer's Avatar
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    Will do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Put a dab of ACF-50 or similar on the ground hardware to help keep the corrosion from getting a start.

    Web
    My uncle and I will be dealing with the wire corrosion on the 180 project after finished installing the new wheels, tire mounting and balancing on the current truck project. Gonna try that ACF-50 which also recommended by a friend mechanic.

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geffert View Post
    My uncle and I will be dealing with the wire corrosion on the 180 project after finished installing the new wheels, tire mounting and balancing on the current truck project. Gonna try that ACF-50 which also recommended by a friend mechanic.
    I've had good luck with it when assembling connectors for aircraft exposed to water/salt water. I'll dip the stripped end of the wire into ACF-50 before crimping the terminal onto the conductor. Then touch the end of the pin or socket to the ACF-50 before inserting them into the connector assembly. Between that and the weather seal on the connector, it seems to do a reasonable job in slowing corrosion.

    Web
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geffert View Post
    My uncle and I will be dealing with the wire corrosion on the 180 project .....
    I always enjoy looking at skywagons, maybe you can start a thread & post some pics of your progress.
    FWIW there's a lot of skywagon owners on this site -- some own one in addition to a cub, some not.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I always enjoy looking at skywagons, maybe you can start a thread & post some pics of your progress.
    FWIW there's a lot of skywagon owners on this site -- some own one in addition to a cub, some not.
    I will, sir!

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