Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 52 of 52

Thread: Young Eagles and Boy Scouts...No Two Place Aircraft!

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    1,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    A rant,
    Granted my short time in the BS was a long time back and was not a fit for me.
    This is my 40th year in EAA. I have been involved in 5 chapters and President of the current one for 5 years. I currently am a member of 2 chapters at this time.
    When I came to this chapter in March 5.5 years back to look it over it seemed pretty good, full room of people. Next meeting I handed in my check to join and soon realized there were a handful of people. Over that summer I came to realize that even the current Pres was not even an EAA member. This chapter was simply a local social club. Some one from out of the region had just introduced the YE program which was well received.
    As we were coming on winter I decided my time there was done, I am a hands on builder and there was no interest in airplanes here. My last meeting, November if I recall talk about elections came up, and a minute later I was president. WTF? here I was, now the leader of the worst chapter in the East.
    I have made the YE program grow, never really liked it, it was being run for numbers. Move the "kids" through. just get them in a plane and send them on. Ignore their parents, they take up time.
    Now all that has changed, I do not ignore the parents, they are the most important part of a youths experience and forming their lives. No one else can or should be controlling a youths future. Well in good families at least.
    So for me, the YE program I now run the parents get respect and are treated well. We spend as much time as we can with each. They all have a chance to ride with their child. So many think this YE program is for the child, yah, but without the parents on board they will not truly support or guide their own children's future. I am not running this program with the belief that I am making Airline Pilots. I run this program to expand young minds to what is out there. I try to form the forward thinking that this does not come easy and they need to plan and work for their future no matter what path they choose. And this path needs the understanding and support of their parents.

    The BS flight program as with other week long camps separate the youth from the family. This is great for the parents that "need a break". A well run family does not "need a break".

    We now have parents that have joined the chapter and are the most helpful members we have. We are coming up on the return of our annual "Leaf Peeper fly in breakfast" In the past it was where do we buy the cheapest product. Going into this one I emphasized I want the best food on the tables. It is the new to us Young Eagles parents that are taking the ball and running. They appreciate the quality first matters that I strive for.

    I think with direction and effort involving the full family in the YE events will benefit the youth to a far greater extent than the way the Scouts or other camps run their program. Last thing I would ever want is taking my child somewhere not knowing if they are truly safe with the people running the operation. My YE parents are now part of the operation, and heck they get their share of flight time allowing them to appreciate what their child's excitement "or" fear is about.
    My current YE program caters to Home Schooling families, next year this will reach out to the Catholic schools. Our new active parents are using regular state schools. We have been flying these youth and a few others all along during the shutdown.
    Our list of other families from regular school systems are not responding to event invites, sad for their children who are loosing out.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process
    Likes FdxLou liked this post

  2. #42
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,443
    Post Thanks / Like
    Many years ago My employer had a a cutback furloughing and demoting some pilots. I was to be reassigned to New York on reserve. That didn't sit well with me so I took a leave of absence and spent a few months giving seaplane lessons and passenger hops with my 7GCB. During that time many neighborhood kids came by to hang around. A few years later a man stopped in, introduced himself and thanked me for taking his son for an airplane ride. I had no recollection of giving this particular ride. Apparently that ride had made such an impression that his son was now a back seater in some sort of spy plane for the military. This had nothing to do with the YE program and may even have preceded it, and nothing to do with the BS. But I will say it had all to do with kids hanging out around airplanes at the "local" and with the Dad coming to me with thanks, made me feel very good about helping to form just one person's future.
    N1PA
    Likes FdxLou liked this post

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    1,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    These rides have allot of power for forming the future and sure are nothing created by EAA. As we all know these stories date back to the early days of flight and I expect most of us have had one.
    My first ride in a plane, my father who had been a B-25 pilot with 99 weather recon missions out of the Azores had quit flying after the war to raise a family. Late '50s rented a 182 on Nantucket. Being the youngest two my sister and I were in a jump seat back in the baggage. Can not say that flight over the Cape inspired me.
    Much later when I had learned to weld, being 14-15 I got the task to replace rusty aft sections on a Vagabond, trade for rides, the rides had yet to start. Rode my bicycle cross town to the airport, 4B9, the owner, Charlie Duesenberg, was sitting out front, bored. We sat talking. After time he perked up, asked if I wanted to go up for a ride, sure. He stopped inside, came out with two leather caps and tossed me one. Short while later I found myself hanging from my belts in his Stearman. He did many maneuvers, we were up quite awhile.
    Now that ride and given the task, my first task on an airplane was to fit and replace tubes on a PA15 when I was a young runt. They left an impression.
    Today, the analytical mind in me still questions, how long can the Stearman remain inverted? Probably was only seconds but it left it's mark.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process
    Likes Sam D, FdxLou liked this post

  4. #44
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    3,651
    Post Thanks / Like
    IMHO a key aspect of the YE program is not just allowing the kids to experience aviation,
    but also good PR for aviation in general.
    So the next time someone flies over their house, instead of bitching about the noise
    maybe the parents will say "hey, I think that's the guy who gave little Johnny a ride last weekend".
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Thanks CharlieN thanked for this post

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    123
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think I was an assistant scout master for about 10 years. Four of my sons went through the program start to finish. They all decided to do it on there own. It was not my decision, but they got support. They are better men now because of it. I see no opportunity today for the youth leadership experience they had. Helicopter parenting is so rampant some colleges have to tell parents "Its time time go home." Parents are doing everything for kids....Boys dont even organize a game of baseball in the neighborhood anymore. That Eagle project...the boy dreams it up, or partners with an organization, then casts a vision, gets permits, organizes sometime hundreds of hours and numerous work days.....and gets the job done. It was a good program.

    But times change. and people get hurt, and sick men with deranged minds are involved and people sue.
    Thanks CharlieN thanked for this post

  6. #46
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    3,651
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sometimes I wonder just how many young men were actually victimized,
    and how many others are just piling on hoping to dig into some deep pockets.
    "Free money" is a powerful motivation for some people,
    as attorneys setting up class-action lawsuits know.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  7. #47
    aktango58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    18AA
    Posts
    9,598
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Sometimes I wonder just how many young men were actually victimized,
    and how many others are just piling on hoping to dig into some deep pockets.
    "Free money" is a powerful motivation for some people,
    as attorneys setting up class-action lawsuits know.

    I wondered the same thing for a long time. Then my world and belief in my elders was shattered when it became public, starting with a gentleman taking his own life and leaving a 'tell all' video of what happened to him by the local Boy Scout Leader/Superintendent/Principal. The same Superintendent/Principal I had in grade school and had great respect for.

    When the news stories started to come out, I was still skeptical, so I asked around to some others I knew and was shocked to learn how many people actually knew about it.

    The worst was some of the youth had told their parents, but due to the power over jobs, the predator was allowed to continue- even with their own children!

    I know we are an aviation forum, but we have some of the best individuals humanity has to offer on here. Maybe we can help by supporting policy that prevents our youth be victimized.

    From our local paper, one of many articles as the story came out:

    https://www.chilkatvalleynews.com/st...ard/11690.html
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
    Thanks soyAnarchisto, Just call me Al thanked for this post

  8. #48
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,443
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Sometimes I wonder just how many young men were actually victimized,
    and how many others are just piling on hoping to dig into some deep pockets.
    "Free money" is a powerful motivation for some people,
    as attorneys setting up class-action lawsuits know.
    A good friend of mine who has now gone west was a retired judge. He was tasked after his retirement with helping to distribute the funds from the Catholic priest scandals to the victims. He told me there were several instances of people getting financial awards which he knew were not abused but because of the arraignments he still had to hand out the money.
    N1PA

  9. #49
    JimParker256's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Farmersville, TX
    Posts
    482
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I'm curious as to what sort of screening is involved re the pilots & airplanes doing YE rides?
    Years ago, there was a YE event at my airport--
    basically, anyone who wanted to hop rides with the kids was welcome to participate.
    I don't recall much going on re checking pilot qualifications (current medical certificate & flight review, pax-carrying currency ),
    or re checking the airplane's airworthiness (in annual, etc).
    Also some years ago, there was a YE (or YE type) flight at a nearby airport, a plane crashed & killed some people.
    I couldn't help but wonder if the two were related, and that accident could have been prevented
    The EAA runs the Young Eagles program, and their requirements are pretty basic: valid PPL or higher, current for carrying passengers, has completed the Youth Protection Program training course online course and passed the EAA background check. The aircraft used for the flight must be airworthy under FAA rules, and insured (with specific minimums). There are also some restrictions on weather (VFR only) and location (takeoff and land from the same airport, with no intermediate stops). Any EAA member pilot can make Young Eagle flights if they meet those rules.

    Chapter "events" on the other hand, must meet those same EAA guidelines for the pilots, but there are more "rules" about having two people who have completed the YPP available at all times, and a few other niceties. If you meet those rules, you can apply for an EAA insurance policy that offers a million dollars of liability coverage to the pilots and the EAA chapter.

    Our particular chapter has more stringent rules, based on some experiences they had some years ago. We don't fly 8-9 year old kids at our events – the kids have to be at least 10. We require our pilots to have at least 250 hours as PIC before they fly with us. We have each pilot complete a "pilot's attestation" form where we articulate ALL of the requirements, and the pilot signs stating that the pilot and airplane involved meed those standards. We do allow one parent to fly with the child, provided there is a seat available in the plane, and the pilot agrees. But I would say 99% of our YE fly without their parents.

    We do also offer "Eagle Flights" (another EAA program) to those adults who are interested in flying. Many YE parents do sign up to take those flights, and we do try to accommodate them outside of our "events".

    I have not personally flown with any of our YE pilots, but we do have 3-4 CFIs in the chapter who have flown with most of them, and I've asked them if any of the pilots raised "red flags" with them. So far, none have done so. Our current chapter president is a younger guy with about 150 hours PIC. He can't fly at our events (chapter rules), but he does fly Young Eagles outside our events, and I'm happy to have him.
    Jim Parker
    2007 Rans S-6ES
    Thanks mixer thanked for this post

  10. #50
    JimParker256's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Farmersville, TX
    Posts
    482
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    A good friend of mine who has now gone west was a retired judge. He was tasked after his retirement with helping to distribute the funds from the Catholic priest scandals to the victims. He told me there were several instances of people getting financial awards which he knew were not abused but because of the arraignments he still had to hand out the money.
    I wonder how in the world he would claim he knew those people were not abused... He may have believed that to be the case. He may have even strongly believed that to be the case. But unless he was there every time that abusive pedophile was with that boy, he has absolutely no way of actually knowing anything...

    I say this from the perspective of a 65 year old who was sexually assaulted by my father's best friend when I was a young teenager. My father did not believe me when I told him that the friend had molested me. He said I must have misunderstood... The fact that his friend had given me a good-paying job when I needed one carried more weight than my descriptions of the sexual assault that took place. My victimizer was not only one of his best friends, but was a deacon in his church, a veritable "pillar of the community" and a "role model" as a self-made businessman.

    I on the other hand, was a naive teenager who grew up overseas with my missionary parents. I quickly realized that if my own father didn't believe me, the likelihood that anyone else would believe me was remote, at best. So I just quit the job (which my father convinced himself for years was because it was too boring) and moved on with my life. My statements were ignored and he continued to abuse others for years – until one of his own sons reported him the the authorities for abusing HIS son.

    Somehow I managed to suppress those memories for 40+ years until someone else described a similar incident in their life, and it all came flooding back. Now every time some claims they "know" what happened to some poor abused kid I get pissed off all over again.

    Were there possibly some people who took advantage of the church or the BSA for financial reasons? There certainly may have been a few of those. But there were plenty of real victims, and plenty of people in both organizations that helped cover it up. Trust me, very few people who come forward with this kind of story do so "for fun"... The stigma placed on the victims is pretty heavy.
    Jim Parker
    2007 Rans S-6ES
    Thanks mam90, OLDCROWE, fancypants, bcone1381 thanked for this post

  11. #51
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,443
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    I wonder how in the world he would claim he knew those people were not abused... He may have believed that to be the case. He may have even strongly believed that to be the case. But unless he was there every time that abusive pedophile was with that boy, he has absolutely no way of actually knowing anything...
    That was a few years ago when we had that discussion, so I am unable to remember the details and my friend is no longer available to ask. He was a very smart and experienced judge who had an excellent intuition of the people brought before him. There was something in this particular case which didn't match his smell test. Something which prompted him to relate the circumstances to me over dinner one evening.
    N1PA

  12. #52

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Down low in the hills of Vermont USA
    Posts
    1,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    I wonder how in the world he would claim he knew those people were not abused...
    Around here you use a tax free contribution.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

Similar Threads

  1. EAA Young Eagles (New Rules)
    By nesincg in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 123
    Last Post: 01-28-2016, 10:59 PM
  2. Young Eagles
    By Pokette in forum Video Vault
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-26-2014, 06:49 PM
  3. Young Eagles
    By Snert in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 05-18-2014, 07:34 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •