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Thread: Young Eagles and Boy Scouts...No Two Place Aircraft!

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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Young Eagles and Boy Scouts...No Two Place Aircraft!

    I attended the New Ulm, MN, annual Pancake Breakfast Sunday and Tony Effenberger, president of the Mankato MN EAA chapter, told me about the Young Eagle rally that had occurred on Saturday. Lots and Lots of kids were able to get into the air. I had offered to give rides in my super cub but was turned down because the Boy Scouts of America has developed a policy to protect their youth which prohibits Young Eagle flights in two place aircraft.

    What a shame. One of the things I really am proud of at New Holstein is the great number of Young Eagle flights that are provided in our two place cubs. I don't think there is any comparison between the experience those kids have in a super cub when compared to a four place aircraft (with two kids sitting in the bleachers in the back).

    Thought I'd give you all a heads up.

    Randy
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    Sorry to hear that! I think the Young Eagle experience at New Holstein is one of the best! One kid per pilot.

    Is the concern about two place aircraft being small and dangerous, or that kids should not be alone with an adult who has completed a training regimen to allow them to work with kids?

    sj
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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    SJ, I'm not sure, but Tony implied it was because of the latter. I hope this mentality doesn't spread to Young Eagle flights in general...I doubt that it will, given that the EAA builders mainly build two place aircraft.

    This is lunacy, imho.

    Randy
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    My son just "aged out" of scouting at age 18. The Boy Scouts have a strict rule that no adult and can be alone with a scout (except for parent/child). It is a good policy that sometimes makes for logistic headaches.
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    From the EAA Youth Protection Plan Policy (https://www.eaa.org/eaa/youth/youth-protection-policy-and-program/ypp-for-young-eagles)


    • Young Eagles Flights.For obvious practical reasons, there is no requirement that Two-Deep Supervisors be on Young Eagles flights. It will be helpful for you as a Young Eagles pilot and/or ground volunteer or field representative, to take particular care to be sure that the youth and their parents are aware of the circumstances. (Emphasis mine)

    Before this, I few over 100 rides with EAA Chapter 1, including lots of Boy Scouts. All of them got basic flight instruction, and signed off in their log books as dual. Then the Boy Scouts demanded copies of licenses, medicals, insurance paperwork and logbook entries for Flight Reviews and annuals. After that I only flew Boy Scouts out of uniform and not in any official capacity. Then The EAA came up with their Youth Protection Program, apparently at the behest of the Boy Scouts. I have no issue with training or background check as I've been through both more times than I can remember. I will not however, explain to parents and kids the risks of being alone with me in my airplane.

    I still happily give rides in the Cub, and even sometimes in my Extra 300. Just not though Young Eagles anymore.
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    CubCruiser's Avatar
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    Another challenge with providing flights for the Boy Scouts has been the prohibition of E-AB and Light Sport aircraft.
    Daryl Hickman, ATP, CFI, XYZ, PDQ
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    And you guys know that there is an FAR on the subject allowing only four such flights per year without drug testing the pilots? And you have to give the FSDO copies of your license and flight review? Each time? And no experimentals?

    There are caveats - funds must be involved. If you are donating avgas/airplane time that may qualify. 14 CFR 91.146.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    And you guys know that there is an FAR on the subject allowing only four such flights per year without drug testing the pilots? And you have to give the FSDO copies of your license and flight review? Each time? And no experimentals?

    There are caveats - funds must be involved. If you are donating avgas/airplane time that may qualify. 14 CFR 91.146.
    You're missing a key component of this Rule. Young Eagles flights are NOT fund raising events as identified in the Rule title, Definitions and text of Paragraph B which states Passenger Carrying flights for the benefit (fundraising) of a charitable, nonprofit or community event. Therefore, in my extensive experience at Holiday Inn Express, said rule does not appear to be applicable to the condition of FREE Young Eagles flights.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 09-14-2021 at 03:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    And you guys know that there is an FAR on the subject allowing only four such flights per year without drug testing the pilots? And you have to give the FSDO copies of your license and flight review? Each time? And no experimentals?

    There are caveats - funds must be involved. If you are donating avgas/airplane time that may qualify. 14 CFR 91.146.
    The referenced regulation has a limit of 4 Events not 4 Flights. I see no limitation on the number of fights per event.

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    I am an EAA chapter leader and head of our YE program. We are very cautious selecting any of which camps or organizations we will fly for. Boy Scouts, not a chance ever. If their youth want a ride, have their parent bring them to us. Happy to work with them. This past summer I was going over the paperwork of a week long camp we had not worked with. YE Pilots from their region warned me check their paperwork. All parent signatures were in the same handwriting. I said by by.
    I now run invitational events catering to a home school group.The group does the invites, not me. Best group of families we have worked with. We have a few families that have been flying with us for years.
    Now the youth get two flights, guaranteed front seat ride and a second ride in different plane if they desire, different plane/pilot as per the rules. If a parent desires a ride, they are in. A youth can not get far if their parent is not supporting them fully.
    We also have a new chef on the grill, Not uncommon to hear "best burger ever" I sure wish I could eat beef.
    But the Boy Scouts, they are BS.
    Regards, Charlie
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    I am an EAA chapter leader and head of our YE program. We are very cautious selecting any of which camps or organizations we will fly for. Boy Scouts, not a chance ever. If their youth want a ride, have their parent bring them to us. Happy to work with them. This past summer I was going over the paperwork of a week long camp we had not worked with. YE Pilots from their region warned me check their paperwork. All parent signatures were in the same handwriting. I said by by.
    I now run invitational events catering to a home school group.The group does the invites, not me. Best group of families we have worked with. We have a few families that have been flying with us for years.
    Now the youth get two flights, guaranteed front seat ride and a second ride in different plane if they desire, different plane/pilot as per the rules. If a parent desires a ride, they are in. A youth can not get far if their parent is not supporting them fully.
    We also have a new chef on the grill, Not uncommon to hear "best burger ever" I sure wish I could eat beef.
    But the Boy Scouts, they are BS.
    By the by…..they are no longer “Boy Scouts”……just “Scouts”.

    Go figure.

    MTV
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    By the by…..they are no longer “Boy Scouts”……just “Scouts”.

    Go figure.

    MTV
    Ahh, I recall hearing that, I still lack trust in them no matter what attorney they hide behind.
    Regards, Charlie
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    So sad how BS is affecting every part of life. The founder of the Boy Scout movement, Robert Baden-Powell, would be appalled. He developed his ideas in Rhodesia in the 1890s with an amazing but now little known American scout and Indian fighter Frederick Burnham and tested them during the siege of Mafeking where boys trained in woodcraft proved their worth in action. The organisation and the promotion of self reliance and initiative it stood for was amazing - it is dismaying to learn that they have become something less.


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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Yeah, what a shame, based on a few miscreants. I was a boy scout, and our leaders were fantastic gentlemen who gave a great deal of their time and energy helping us develop outdoor skills via camping and hiking. Thank you Mr Gurling, Mr Preston, and etc.
    Gordon

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    Im a second generation Eagle Scout. I don’t know if I’d put my kids through the program the way it is now.
    What the program stood for and taught I don’t think are high priorities for the scouts. Truly a shame.
    I guess that’s what you get with lawyers and fairly high paid professional scouts just trying to keep their jobs in the organization.

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    I started out in the Scouts in the early '60s on the shoreline of Conn. There was something I found very uncomfortable in that group. Nothing ever directly at or near me but I would say I barely spent a week with the scouts. My mom was upset from the investment in the uniform. We were not a well funded family.
    My uncle had taken me under his wing and taught me allot, hands on and ethics. While the scouts were whittling sticks my uncle was building a boat. I still build boats, I do not play with sticks.
    Regards, Charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandsman View Post
    So sad how BS is affecting every part of life. The founder of the Boy Scout movement, Robert Baden-Powell, would be appalled. He developed his ideas in Rhodesia in the 1890s with an amazing but now little known American scout and Indian fighter Frederick Burnham and tested them during the siege of Mafeking where boys trained in woodcraft proved their worth in action. The organisation and the promotion of self reliance and initiative it stood for was amazing - it is dismaying to learn that they have become something less.
    When I was a youngster my Dad told me about the time when he was a Scout, he had actually met Robert Baden-Powell. He was quite proud of that meeting.

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    aktango58's Avatar
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    Thank you to all that give youth rides in aircraft, teach youth different skills, and invest in future generations.

    The national organizations I grew up with supporting youth activities seem to have gone away for varied reasons- most seem to be someone was caught doing something improper and not fitted with concrete boots.

    Boy Scouts served a great purpose. It is unfortunate that society has a belief that there is not a place for an organization to teach young men ethics, responsibility and life skills.

    At some point, paperwork becomes more than I am willing to do any organized teaching... it does not stop me from trying to help teach, just not within many of the 'organizational' structures.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    Interesting read. The issue with scouting is nothing new. I was a leader back in the mid 90's. We had training back then that stressed "two deep leadership" with all kids. Understand, the protection it provided went both ways; protected the leaders and protected the kids. As a teacher for 30+ years, we were "encouraged" to never be alone in the classroom, one on one, with just that individual student in the room. Even to the point that if a student needed help between class periods, you conducted it near an open door. You may notice a lot of teacher desks near the doors of a classroom. Yes, it's a difficult and unfair situation but one that has to be understood. How do you defend yourself from an accusation of something improper when you were simply adjusting a seat belt if you are alone with a child? Face it, some people may see pilots as rich, deep pockets to be exploited. We all need to be careful out there around kids, for both parties protection.

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    And, unfortunately, there are perverts out there. That’s how we got where we are, folks, not by a bunch of innocent people being accused irrationally.

    Did anyone here watch tonight’s news and see the reporting on the gymnasts? It’s real, folks. They’re out there, and they have been protected for decades.

    MTV
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    I guess the perverts are always in the mix with everything, and always have been. I was warned off sending my son for horse riding lessons here because of generalised allegations against instructors. Like everything there will be a degree of truth and one must assess people you meet and make one’s own judgments. Generalised overreactions will never eradicate the disease but will cost the majority the growing experiences that scouting was originally about. If you read Major Fred Burnham’s life story it seems clear that he came in for some abuse but what a man he became - a real American hero and hell on wheels at only 5’4”. It’s a bit like the poor, the homeless, the addicts - they are always among us and individual stories can be tragic- but it’s up to the individual to sink or swim, none of us can swim for anyone else. It’s a pity modern society pretends that we can and makes excessive rules to punish everyone for the actions of the few.


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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    As a teacher for 30+ years, we were "encouraged" to never be alone in the classroom, one on one, with just that individual student in the room.
    Yes, that. Mere appearance of potential impropriety can bite. And a kid who doesn't like his/her grade can 'say things'. I didn't teach as long as Marty did, but I was very, very careful about open classroom door, etc.
    Gordon

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    I’m an Eagle Scout, and a better person for it. All the credit goes to our Scoutmaster, Mr. A. Judd Davis. Terrific man, admired by all. OA Vigil member. Silver Beaver. Someone we all (scouts, parents, troop leaders) looked up to.

    Scouting seems to be quite different these days. I was involved in it with my boys (20 years ago), and it seemed quite watered down. It seemed that they wanted to embrace kids of all ages (from roughly 6 - 21) through Tiger Cubs, Cubs, Scouts, and Explorers. The programming for Tiger Cubs and Cubs didn’t seem to connect with the boys, and it felt like BSA missed the target. My boys never continued into Scouts or Explorers, but where I could I tried to teach them some of the things I learned in Scouts. But they missed out on the fun and learning and sense of accomplishment that came from working on merit badges, and the leadership that came from working on and executing their own service projects.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if new organizations pop up to try to recreate the Scouting experience I had 50 years ago. It certainly was a great experience, and I’d bet there are lots of kids who would enjoy it these days.
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    [QUOTE=mvivion;810651
    They’re out there, and they have been protected for decades.

    MTV[/QUOTE]

    That pretty much sums it up.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    I was a Cub Scout, and a Boy Scout in the 60's & early 70's-- never came close to Eagle Scout though.
    It was a positive experience, esp for a city kid like myself.
    It would have been more positive if I hadn't been such an anti-authority PITA kid, but that's on me.
    I have nothing but good to say about all the dads who volunteered to spend some of what I realize now
    was their precious time off from work to participate in the activities.
    I never encountered or heard of any inappropriate contact between the adults & the kids--
    it's very disappointing to hear about that kind of thing in more recent times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I never encountered or heard of any inappropriate contact between the adults & the kids--
    it's very disappointing to hear about that kind of thing in more recent times.
    That was a long long time ago when the crap of the last decade or so that took the Scouts down was not even imagined.
    Even I was a scout in the early-mid 60s. Got in my way of getting things done. I was put into an age group that my early up bringing had already brought me far beyond. My uncle had released me to take his 25' boat out onto Long Island sound alone at 12YO. You learn real quick to look back so you know what the shore looks like so you can navigate back in. I did my share of maintenance on the boat as well, learned what happens with a can of mixed epoxy does when you do not use it fast enough. That to me was learning, whittling sticks in the woods, I was long beyond that.
    Yes there is a place for the scouts, more so today where so many parents know less about using their mind and hands than many of us did at 15.
    Regards, Charlie
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I was a Cub Scout, and a Boy Scout in the 60's & early 70's-- never came close to Eagle Scout though.
    It was a positive experience, esp for a city kid like myself.
    It would have been more positive if I hadn't been such an anti-authority PITA kid, but that's on me.
    I have nothing but good to say about all the dads who volunteered to spend some of what I realize now
    was their precious time off from work to participate in the activities.
    I never encountered or heard of any inappropriate contact between the adults & the kids--
    it's very disappointing to hear about that kind of thing in more recent times.

    Unfortunately, there is nothing "new" about inappropriate behavior by some adults in kid's programs. It was never talked about back then....it is now. And, about time.

    MTV
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Unfortunately, there is nothing "new" about inappropriate behavior by some adults in kid's programs. It was never talked about back then....it is now. And, about time.

    MTV
    Hadn't Really thought about it that way.
    Regards, Charlie
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    I have been involved in Scouting as a parent and adult leader for the past 22 years. It has changed a little from 40 and more years ago but it is still a great program for boys. It all hinges on having committed parents and volunteers who are supportive and involved. The program can be what the parents, leaders and most importantly the boys (and girls, now) want it to be. High quality programs do exist. If you want to ensure that the program is what you recall from your youth or prior experience then get involved, volunteer your time, knowledge, and caring. The Scouts will recognize it, appreciate it, and strive to achieve and advance.
    It is easy to stand back and deride a group- it takes courage to make a difference and get involved. That is the way it has always been and will continue to be.
    I don't know about any new rules involved with flying Scouts but if you don't help foster the interest then it will wither.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CubCruiser View Post
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    Wow! That was a surprise! The quoted section above is from the "Prohibited Activities" section of the BSA Policy document. The way I read that, flying is a prohibited activity, regardless of the fact that the Aviation Merit Badge requirements include performing two of the following:
    a) take a flight in an airplane and report on it,
    b) perform a pre-flight inspection of a light airplane, or
    c) plan a VFR cross-country using an aeronautical chart (my simplification of the statement).
    Right hand, meet left hand... (Let's give those kids instructions to do something that Scouting HQ has determined to be a prohibited activity...)

    Two local EAA chapters I work with have been flying entire Boy Scout troops, at the request of the scout leaders. I now realize that those are not only unsanctioned, but prohibited activities, and we should NOT be doing them. As the Young Eagles coordinator for our chapter, I will decline such requests in the future, and instead request that the scout leader have the individual parents contact me to arrange a Young Eagles flight for their kid. We will no longer make those flights as part of an "organized" scouting activity.

    Sad times.
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    Wow! That was a surprise! The quoted section above is from the "Prohibited Activities" section of the BSA Policy document. The way I read that, flying is a prohibited activity, regardless of the fact that the Aviation Merit Badge requirements include performing two of the following:
    a) take a flight in an airplane and report on it,
    b) perform a pre-flight inspection of a light airplane, or
    c) plan a VFR cross-country using an aeronautical chart (my simplification of the statement).
    Right hand, meet left hand... (Let's give those kids instructions to do something that Scouting HQ has determined to be a prohibited activity...)

    Two local EAA chapters I work with have been flying entire Boy Scout troops, at the request of the scout leaders. I now realize that those are not only unsanctioned, but prohibited activities, and we should NOT be doing them. As the Young Eagles coordinator for our chapter, I will decline such requests in the future, and instead request that the scout leader have the individual parents contact me to arrange a Young Eagles flight for their kid. We will no longer make those flights as part of an "organized" scouting activity.

    Sad times.
    Jim,

    No offense, but your reading skills might need some work. What that section prohibits is flights in hang gliders, ultralights, Experimental aircraft, and on an aircraft on a SAR mission.

    I don’t see any prohibition from fulfilling the requirements you noted, as long as a certificated standard category plane is used. While owners may believe their Experimental planes to be as safe as certificated planes, I can understand why BSA would preclude them for this purpose.

    MTV
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    JimParker256's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Jim,

    No offense, but your reading skills might need some work. What that section prohibits is flights in hang gliders, ultralights, Experimental aircraft, and on an aircraft on a SAR mission.

    I don’t see any prohibition from fulfilling the requirements you noted, as long as a certificated standard category plane is used. While owners may believe their Experimental planes to be as safe as certificated planes, I can understand why BSA would preclude them for this purpose.

    MTV
    On the other hand, the fact that the Young Eagles program is sponsored by the Experimental Aircraft Association should be a clue that the flights might well be conducted in experimental aircraft...

    I personally fly an experimental airplane for Young Eagle flights. The sponsoring organization is an Experimental Aircraft Association chapter. To date, over 50% of the pilots who volunteer to fly these kids are operating experimental aircraft. At our events, the kids beg to get to fly in the cool experimental aircraft. And when I'm not at the check-in desk (because I'm out flying kids myself), I have no control over the assignment of kids to airplanes, and whether those kids were submitted by their parents or by their scout leader (with the "parent" signature on the waiver form). And even for individual flights, the pilot might elect to fly an experimental aircraft without me knowing about that decision.

    I know the degree of reticence a large number our chapter members expressed toward sponsoring Young Eagle flights, despite the EAA's liability policy that covers those activities. Knowing that people are already on a hair-trigger to sue the BSA (and anyone involved with BSA activities), I suspect that once people realize this document exists, our own policy will be what I articulated above. MTV, your EAA chapter can do what they want (and maybe all your members fly standard category certificated airplanes), but that is not the case for my chapter. As I said, it's a sad commentary on where the world is today.
    Jim Parker
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  34. #34
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    On the other hand, the fact that the Young Eagles program is sponsored by the Experimental Aircraft Association should be a clue that the flights might well be conducted in experimental aircraft...

    I personally fly an experimental airplane for Young Eagle flights. The sponsoring organization is an Experimental Aircraft Association chapter. To date, over 50% of the pilots who volunteer to fly these kids are operating experimental aircraft. At our events, the kids beg to get to fly in the cool experimental aircraft. And when I'm not at the check-in desk (because I'm out flying kids myself), I have no control over the assignment of kids to airplanes, and whether those kids were submitted by their parents or by their scout leader (with the "parent" signature on the waiver form). And even for individual flights, the pilot might elect to fly an experimental aircraft without me knowing about that decision.

    I know the degree of reticence a large number our chapter members expressed toward sponsoring Young Eagle flights, despite the EAA's liability policy that covers those activities. Knowing that people are already on a hair-trigger to sue the BSA (and anyone involved with BSA activities), I suspect that once people realize this document exists, our own policy will be what I articulated above. MTV, your EAA chapter can do what they want (and maybe all your members fly standard category certificated airplanes), but that is not the case for my chapter. As I said, it's a sad commentary on where the world is today.
    Im not being critical of Experimental aircraft at all.

    I simply pointed out that the BSA policy does NOT preclude Scouts from riding in “aircraft”. And, Young Eagles isn’t the only operation that flys kids.

    There’s nothing “experimental” about kids getting some flight experience.

    MTV

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    There’s nothing “experimental” about kids getting some flight experience.

    MTV
    Unless they are prone to going nuts under stress and start grabbing the yolk and stomping their feet and other acts that are not a good thing in any moving vehicle.
    Our chapter did a flight for "under privileged kids" before I was a member, not long before. It was not a good thing and is the basis why we/I am cautious and selective with "camps". The chapter actually discontinued the YE program after that until it's rebirth in '16 or 17.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    ....the pilot might elect to fly an experimental aircraft without me knowing about that decision......
    I'm curious as to what sort of screening is involved re the pilots & airplanes doing YE rides?
    Years ago, there was a YE event at my airport--
    basically, anyone who wanted to hop rides with the kids was welcome to participate.
    I don't recall much going on re checking pilot qualifications (current medical certificate & flight review, pax-carrying currency ),
    or re checking the airplane's airworthiness (in annual, etc).
    Also some years ago, there was a YE (or YE type) flight at a nearby airport, a plane crashed & killed some people.
    I couldn't help but wonder if the two were related, and that accident could have been prevented
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    For me, I pretty well know who and what our pilots are, ability wise. I have turned away a few pilots from another chapter. Part way due to issues with questionable ethics as well one pilot taking the active for departure with another plane coming in above him, It was close and due to the awareness of the inbound pilot's awareness and ability it was a non issue.
    But I then realized that chapter pockets all chapter credits in their own pockets. They probably did quite well filling pockets this past summer while EAA was doubling credits.
    I do have a pilot who I will not ride with, but he is reliable so I consider this my issue.
    FWIW I have pilots who fly 1 to 2 hours to fly my events while not flying any that are at their own airport, and that was before we started supplying free top quality burgers and dogs.
    Paperwork, Primarily I go with EAA's requirement for youth protection and EAA member currency, all checked online. Being FAA AC 91.146 pilot hour does not apply to these events I do not look at any pilot or aircraft documents. Yes they need the $100,000 passenger policy but so far I consider the honor system acceptable, but now you have me thinking?
    About pilot hours, at our chapter meeting a few days ago one of my top pilots brought up two of his students, one working on the PP and the other half way through his instrument training. Discussion if he being 17 and low hours can fly with us. A month ago he had an outer elevator hinge come apart on the C-150 he was flying whiel up at cruise. He brought it down at a distant airport. My opinion, he can fly with us.
    One of the YE related crashes out in the Northwest was a mid air over the airport and another near the airport that would be the one in WA., sad they happened. Over here, at another chapter's event a C172 had and engine out on departure, landed in trees, all were OK. There have been a few others but statistics as 2.2 million youth rides with only a handful of nasty stuff is mighty impressive.
    And as for prevention, all accidents can be prevented, yet no one yet knows how. Try and try something will go wrong and that is why we need to discuss them.

    And mind you, I am no king of these events, I only want to see smiles.
    Regards, Charlie
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    Two place airplanes are approved for Scout rides.

    Quote Originally Posted by WindOnHisNose View Post
    I had offered to give rides in my super cub but was turned down because the Boy Scouts of America has developed a policy to protect their youth which prohibits Young Eagle flights in two place aircraft.

    Randy
    I am not an expert on the BSA policies nor do I think that they are all good or beneficial but I am unable to find any policies that state a Scout cannot ride in a two place airplane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    Wow! That was a surprise! The quoted section above is from the "Prohibited Activities" section of the BSA Policy document. The way I read that, flying is a prohibited activity, regardless of the fact that the Aviation Merit Badge requirements include performing two of the following:
    a) take a flight in an airplane and report on it,
    b) perform a pre-flight inspection of a light airplane, or
    c) plan a VFR cross-country using an aeronautical chart (my simplification of the statement).
    Right hand, meet left hand... (Let's give those kids instructions to do something that Scouting HQ has determined to be a prohibited activity...)

    Two local EAA chapters I work with have been flying entire Boy Scout troops, at the request of the scout leaders. I now realize that those are not only unsanctioned, but prohibited activities, and we should NOT be doing them. As the Young Eagles coordinator for our chapter, I will decline such requests in the future, and instead request that the scout leader have the individual parents contact me to arrange a Young Eagles flight for their kid. We will no longer make those flights as part of an "organized" scouting activity.

    Sad times.
    The part of the Aviation Merit Badge requirements you quoted is incomplete. Here is the portion that you are commenting on:

    2. Do TWO of the following:
    • Take a flight in an aircraft , with your parent's permission. Record the date, place, type of aircraft, and duration of flight, and report on your impressions of the flight.
    • Under supervision, perform a preflight inspection of a light airplane.
    • Obtain and learn how to read an aeronautical chart. Measure a true course on the chart. Correct it for magnetic variation, compass deviation, and wind drift to determine a compass heading.
    • Using one of many flight simulator software packages available for computers. "fly" the course and heading you established in requirement 2c or another course you have plotted.
    • Explain the purposes and functions of the various instruments found in a typical single-engine aircraft: attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, airspeed indicator, turn and bank indicator, vertical speed indicator, compass, navigation (GPS and VOR) and communication radios, tachometer, oil pressure gauge, and oil temperature gauge.
    • Create an original poster of an aircraft instrument panel. Include and identify the instruments and radios discussed in requirement 2e.



    I would prefer a Scout had an airplane ride any day possible because that gives the best example of what aviation is. But they can complete the merit badge with other options.

    EAA can give Young Eagle rides to anyone including Scouts because you are operating under the auspices and guidance of the EAA. It is up to the Scout leaders to comply with the policies of the BSA so they, not you, bear that responsibility. I personally don't agree with the ban on experimental airplanes in the BSA policy but I don't get to make the policy and can understand why BSA states it as MTV explained previously. I think that Young Eagles is a fantastic program with a great track record and a positive, proactive outreach for EAA and General Aviation to reach the public.
    Last edited by Just call me Al; 09-22-2021 at 07:31 PM. Reason: copy and paste of requirements didn't work.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just call me Al View Post
    I am not an expert on the BSA policies nor do I think that they are all good or beneficial but I am unable to find any policies that state a Scout cannot ride in a two place airplane.
    I recall that the policy is that no scout can be alone with any adult; ergo one pilot and one scout becomes problematic with that policy.

    Lots of great programs out there for all kinds of things. They do great in a small scale, grow, become big enough that they need accountants and legal advice, then someone doesn't like something or one person does something they shouldn't, and the program becomes either mired in legal battles or mired in policy to the point it is hard to complete the mission.

    To all of you out there that volunteer time, energy, money, airplane rides and such: THANK YOU!

    At some point one must accept risk to live.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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