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cattle on runway

courierguy

courierguy

MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
It took the neighbor's cattle about 2 hours the first day, yesterday, to break thru the electric fence separating my runway from the rest of my place, that I had agreed to let them graze for the rest of the season. I hate to be pissy about it, and want to be a good neighbor, but having them on the runway was NOT part of the deal, not to mention all around the house (with one mooing into the open bedroom window at 3 this morning). I'm flying shortly, and will first walk the 400' to check for fresh cowpies, as we all know getting it, once dried in flight, off the wing bottom is not an easy job, at least not with a Poly-Tone finish. I also need to check my pop up sprinklers (yeah it's irrigated) and see if they have survived.

The rancher neighbor is at work all day (railroader) and we will get together later today to discuss the situation. I'll give him 3 tries to set the fence back up (his responsibility, not mine, temporary) and keep them out, otherwise I will give him back the uncashed check he gave me for the grazing rights. I don't need the money, though more never hurts of course, did it more for being a good neighbor, but right now I'm thinking it's not worth the hassle. Any input from pilots who ranch? A more sustainable real fence is not in the cards, the e fence was a two wire, with posts about 30' apart. They will all have to come out later as they are in the way of my winter ski runway. The rancher and I are on good terms, no problem there, but even after 40+ years in Idaho I am still a guy raised near Detroit, with no knowledge of the give and take in a situation like this.
 

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I think if you irrigate the runway you are always going to be dealing with the "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". They pasture cattle across the road from me and they are always reaching thru the fence to get to the grass on the other side. In a herd like that they will push thru the fence, post on 30 foot spacing probably will not do it, they just get a quick shock and then the fence is on the ground. It probably works for your neighbor where the quality of the grass is the same on both sides, so he just went with what has worked for him before. Did you find where they knocked the fence down? Best of luck.

Tim
 
Is it an electric fence, or just two barbed wires? If it's not electric, have your neighbor try it. It'll make them respect a fence.
 
Not to be a pessimist, but in my experience for that scenario, you need 3 wire electric fence, center wire grounded, and posts closer together. 30 feet with 5-10 cows pushing at the same time--one of them is going to ground it all out and the others will push through.
 
Build a better fence, nothing better than a neighbor with a cheeseburger factory.
 
Some years ago I kept my Bonanza on a friends ranch strip for 5 years that allowed the cows on intermittently to graze. Runway was fenced with fiberglass poles and poly tape wire with an inner fence band around the shade hangars. Cows learned immediately to not mess with the fence once I put a 6 joule charger on the line. We had 3 bands of the tape with center grounded. The 2-3 joule feed store chargers just didn't get the respect that made it effective. The high output charger seemed to kill the occasional berry vine that crawled up too. The fence had to be checked often because the high output charger would smoke the tape if it became grounded.
Bonanza wasn't the best plane for the ranch strip but tires lasted forever. Cow pies very bad when you have wheel wells. Touching a 5 or 6 joule fence is memorable.
Ken
 
Your life will be a lot easier if you get along with your neighbor instead of a pissin match. I would try to politely impress upon him that the fence needs to be better. Then if that doesn't work just tell him, hey we tried to get you some extra grass, but this is not going to work.
 
SteveE said:
Your life will be a lot easier if you get along with your neighbor instead of a pissin match. I would try to politely impress upon him that the fence needs to be better. Then if that doesn't work just tell him, hey we tried to get you some extra grass, but this is not going to work.
Click to expand...

Not even close to turning into a pissing match, it's all good! IF it was a permanent arrangement, the fence would be a "real" fence, but it's just for this fall, then it all has to come out, 1/4 mile. So we are both trying to see what works while trying to keep it to the minimum required. No talk or intent of this being an annual thing.

On my FOD walk of the runway this morning, I was surprised to find only one remnant of their visit, that I could and did, easily avoid by landing a bit long. And the runway no longer is on the verge of needing another mowing job, there is that.
 
CourierGuy;

From just down the road a piece, I'd say more fence. The electric bit only stops the casual "bump up against it." When they get agitated they just bust right through it. I say 3 strand barb ( remember the antelope wire heights) with posts clearly too close. Metal T posts should work just fine. I am surrounded by BLM grazing land and the three strand antelope friendly fence I have works great. No cows on my runway yet! And those range cows have no manners at all.

Neighbor had some temp pens of that three wire electric deal that were intended for the roundup last week. They (the fences) didn't last long. Fortunately we managed to contain all bovine subjects and achieve the goal but it got sporty there for a while. Even if it's intended to be temporary, cheap and easy won't work - just like just about everything else involved with cows.

Best of luck!
 
A little cow crap on the wings don’t hurt anything. I use a product called TKO to squirt on the crap and it comes right off . And I do have polyfiber on my cub. On the fence two hot wires would be better then tie a piece of ribbon to the wire in a bunch of places. The cows will be curious and smell the ribbon get shocked on the nose . Now they know the fence is hot and won’t push through it. And as someone else said the more joules the charger the better and posts closer together. We used 30 joule chargers on our buffalo pastures and that held them. But you didn’t want to be standing in wet snow and touch it. Ask me how I know🥴
Ranchers put cows on corn stalks and all they use is temporary electric fence and it keeps them in. Just have to educate them.


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Doug Budd said:
A little cow crap on the wings don’t hurt anything.
Click to expand...

Depends on what they have been eating. After the recent heavy rains my favorite local dirt strip had lots of purple flowers. The cattle eat the flowers and their sh!t stains even PPG polyurethane purple. Lesson learned - wash cow sh!t off as soon as get home.
 
I wash my plane maybe twice a year, whether it needs it or not. So, not a squeaky clean plane type here, far from it, but my experience with cow crap is once it's dried, the only way to get it off is with plenty of water to soften it up, and then a plastic pot scrubber or finger nails, at least with my Poly-Tone, maybe a shiny Aerothane type finish it comes off easier, probably. TKO? I'll check it out..., I like the spray cleaning products that use a citrus ingredient, pretty good for oil stains even, I use the stuff on my crane and the plane, doesn't bother the Poly-Tone any.

They got back in this afternoon, seems now that they know about the better feed up here, they are more determined, my half ass fence repair on the long term "real" fence on the property line (as opposed to the temp e fence, all on my property) that the rancher opened up to allow them access to my place slowed them down but didn't dissuade them. I closed it back up a bit better, we'll see if that keeps them down there while we repair the e fence. More crap on the runway but still not too bad, and all down low so I can just avoid it so no problem. I just hope if they get back in tonight (probably/most likely is my guess) they don't hang out by the open bedroom window but stay a ways away. None of this would be a factor if I didn't fly, have a strip, and lived in town. Point being, any cow hassle is all part of my flying so not a big deal and nothing I can't live with or make right. I can always sell out, in a heartbeat, quit flying, and move into a nice squeaky clean neighborhood in town and live like normal folk. That's a joke.

2 minutes later: Googled TKO, see it's citrus based, got a bottle on it's way via Amazon Prime, as part of a back plan.
 
Yeah, two wire electric won't do anything. I have had good luck with 4 wires. You have to make sure nothing is shorting any of the wires, even a branch or grass will drain off the charge. The solar ones work for a little while, but the batteries seem to be a weak point. Better if you can plug the charger in to 110. I have one that reads out the voltage on the controller so you can know if it is being grounded anywhere. Barb wire is more consistent (again, 4-wire). They both need maintenance every spring.

John
 
Kill the lead cow (make sure the others are watching),
then give them the "I'm watching you" business.
Works every time.

st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg
 

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Two wire electric fence should be more than adequate witha industrial strength charger. Make sure the charger has a good ground
After the cows are fence broke you shouldnt have any more escapees.
We run miles of electric fence and never have issues with a single wire once the cows get educated.


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1/4 mile of fence?
Any self respecting backcountry pilot ought to be able to operate out of 300’ no? ;-)
 
^^^^^
??????

It has nothing to do with pilot skills or the length of the strip. He has 1/4 mile of fence he is dealing with. If you look at the picture of the first post you can clearly see it is not very long and he states he walked the first 400' meaning to me he only needs 400'....Regardless of how long his strip is it is not about pilot skills, it's about cattle, fences, and maintaining a relationship with a neighbor.
 
Last edited:
Grant said:
If you look at the picture of the first post you can clearly see it is not very long and he states he walked the first 400' meaning to me he only needs 400'
Click to expand...

I measured 450 ft from the wind turbine to the end of the cleared runway. Not much grass on the last 50 ft though at least not back in June.
 
440' total, counting the staging area up on the driveway, plenty with a little help from the 14 degree slope for the S-7S.

My temp repair to the permanent fence has worked two nights in a row, the cattle congregate at it, look at it, and then meander off. No repair work done yet on the e fence, so the rancher and I are in a holding pattern, and I still have his check to give back to him if he just wants to call it quits. I'll even do the removal of the temp e fence. He doesn't own or live on the property below BTW, so not really a NEIGHBOR neighbor, none the less I'd rather the property continued to be grazed by him rather then sold off and developed, thus my interest in making it work if at all possible.
 
I was on short final in a RV 6 after midnight and noticed the runway edge lights were blinking wierd and my landing lights were picking up lots of faint blinking lights moving around on the runway
I pushed levers forward and made a low pass over about 40 angus cows now stampeding down runway 17
Made another pass and landed, got out hose and rinsed cow poop off belly and wing bottoms


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It's not how many wires, but how hot the charger is!! Our wolf fence will arc about 1/4", and you wont be able to pick up a coffee cup with that hand for a few days. GOOD grounds and GOOD chargers are the way to go! We also use the 2" white "tape" from Gallager as that provides a visual as well. Works great!!! Take some surveyor's ribbon and tie it on the wire between posts and that will help as well.
John
 
E fence back up and now grounded to my wind turbine tower ground: 4 rods in a 20' square, all connected with buried copper wire. The rancher had used a single short rod
, in dry ground, I didn't think to tell him about the better tower ground 8' away until this second go around.. Saw the first cow make contact with it, all the others (20) were closely watching, he jumped back , spooked the others, and they all moved on and seemed to have lost interest in my runway. Fence unit is labeled as good for 5 miles. Came back today from a 3 hr breakfast flight, and had the runway to myself, looks like I'm in the cattle business.
 
Glad you got a handle on things, but I cant help but thinking about Far Side humor when following this thread.
 
My way of testing an electric fence is to take a blade of green grass and touch it to the hot wire. Start four or five inches away and slide closer. Have your other hand on the ground. If you can feel the pulse through the blade within a couple inches of your fingers, you don't want to actually touch it.
 
The steer used his nose, guess he didn't like the way it smelled, from his reaction. The others were smart enough to have him be the e fence dummy.
 
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