Hand Propping

Tie the tail down!!

My old Champ required a bunch of throttle to fire, especially when warm. I could pull it over for an hour if the throttle was not open enough... it needed air! Problem was if it was open that much it wanted to roll. I tied it down!

Got retrained on starting the 985 this year. No throttle pumping, just primer. No backfiring ever.

aktango58 said:

Tie the tail down!!

My old Champ required a bunch of throttle to fire, especially when warm. I could pull it over for an hour if the throttle was not open enough... it needed air! Problem was if it was open that much it wanted to roll. I tied it down!

Got retrained on starting the 985 this year. No throttle pumping, just primer. No backfiring ever.

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Supercharged, therefore low compression large engines turn through easy as can be. And, long props offer leverage. The 985 is my all time favorite engine!

MTV

Always entertaining……
https://youtu.be/viiIBz1AEnQ

Here's my hand propping story. Get the Cub out for an early morning flight to take a customer out to look at his fields. Stupid mistake #1, left the master on so dead battery. Stupid mistake # 2. Had a very busy day lined up so I don't have time to walk the hundred feet to grab a chalk for the bush wheels. I show my customer where the brakes are and ask him to push down both while i hand prop the plane. I use the two hand pull down and swing away method to start the Cub as the momentum has you step away from the prop and has served me well as I have repeated stupid mistake # 1 on several occasions. Plane starts on one pull so I go around to get in.I notice that my passenger has his feet on the rudders instead of the brakes. Glad that I had the throttle barely cracked as the bushwheels roll pretty easy at low RPM's. Haven't had to hand prop since then but next time i will use the chalks or set the parking brakes myself before hand propping.

Some of the best lessons are learned when no damage is done. ...... Providing you are paying attention.

How come people are propping a cub from the front in the videos? The nice thing with the split cub door is being able to reach everything from behind the prop. Hand on the door frame and foot on the gear leg. One of the many useful things I learned from jay Baldwin in Alaska while getting my tailwheel endorsement


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RaisedByWolves said:

How come people are propping a cub from the front in the videos? The nice thing with the split cub door is being able to reach everything from behind the prop. Hand on the door frame and foot on the gear leg. One of the many useful things I learned from jay Baldwin in Alaska while getting my tailwheel endorsement


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I'm with Tom on this, i can't figure out why anyone hand props from the front when its easier and safer from behind.

If you use chocks the rope where it exits the chock should point towards the other chock with the lead laying in front of chock and extending back to the tire. That way when you pull the rope the chock will rotate 180* with very little effort. With the ropes pointing out they get stuck from the tire pinching it.

Glenn

Bassackwards said:

Here's my hand propping story. Get the Cub out for an early morning flight to take a customer out to look at his fields. Stupid mistake #1, left the master on so dead battery. Stupid mistake # 2. Had a very busy day lined up so I don't have time to walk the hundred feet to grab a chalk for the bush wheels. I show my customer where the brakes are and ask him to push down both while i hand prop the plane. I use the two hand pull down and swing away method to start the Cub as the momentum has you step away from the prop and has served me well as I have repeated stupid mistake # 1 on several occasions. Plane starts on one pull so I go around to get in.I notice that my passenger has his feet on the rudders instead of the brakes. Glad that I had the throttle barely cracked as the bushwheels roll pretty easy at low RPM's. Haven't had to hand prop since then but next time i will use the chalks or set the parking brakes myself before hand propping.

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Can not trust an inexperienced passenger at the brakes or throttle when hand propping. They could panic or even accidentally move and hit the throttle.

I always told passengers not to move or adjust headset or touch controls while hand propping my J3 or PA-11. I always prop from behind for quick access to controls too. Had one passenger adjust their headset and their elbow hit the throttle half open… Another passenger stepped on the brake peddle getting in and it broke off completely when pressed and they didn’t know. Passengers generally are excited or nervous so never know what they will do…

I often got “experienced” pilots offering to hand prop, but some are not physically capable any more so just kindly thanked them and propped myself. Had a few nervous moments in the past where wasn’t worth the risk in accepting the help. Some of the older pilots no longer had the balance to hand prop even if intentions were good…

Best to stick with your routine too so don’t accidentally forget to pull throttle back after clearing flood. I miss flying my PA-11. Going to sell the Husky and see if I can find another Cub. Working on moving back to NE too.

1934A said:

I'm with Tom on this, i can't figure out why anyone hand props from the front when its easier and safer from behind.

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Same reason people do 3 point landings instead safer wheel lands. "That is the way I was trained"!!! Its raining out so figuring I would stir the pot some. I have done it both ways. I would do behind the prop if alone. Sometimes traction/ground is better in front. The key is to have a plan once the engine fires. To hope the plane won't move is not a plan by the way.
DENNY

Always fun to talk/write about hand propping. The first airplane I owned was a 90 hp J-3, which lived on floats a big part of the year. As Paul noted, unless you are a lot Holy-er than I am, propping a seaplane from in front is tough.
So, since that's the way I learned.....

As to tiedowns: I guess Mr. Bertorelli has apparently never parked his Cub someplace where there IS nothing to tie the tail to. I have. My last "hand prop only" plane was a PA-11. Both that plane and the J-3 I owned many years ago were equipped with Marvel carburetors. When I bought the 11, the mixture control was wired "full rich". First thing I did was install a mixture control.

So, when starting, I primed the engine, then selected "Idle Cutoff" on mixture. Then, prop it.

With the mixture at cutoff, the engine would start, but I had to get to the mixture pretty quick or the engine would die.....perfect!!

So, I tied down when I could, but I ALWAYS started that plane with mixture control at Idle Cutoff. I also realize that some engines don't offer that ability.

I've propped planes on skis, floats and wheels, and almost always from behind. As Paul noted, make yourself happy there, but....

If you're going to prop one of these airplanes, try doing so with mixture to idle cutoff. Assuming you can get to the mixture control fairly quick, it is another way to minimize risk while propping.

MTV

Every small continental I have been around (65 thru 0-200) the primer shoots the gas into the intake spider. So what’s the difference between priming or pumping the throttle. I know most 65s75s and 85s and even 90s don’t have an excelerator pump in the carb But the primer gas still goes into the intake. just wondering


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Some of the cylinders for small C's are tapped for a primer. Does help.

Gary

8.50’s will jump a 4x4 chalk with little too much throttle so I always double and triple check hand propping if I can’t leave it tied down. I would like to find a tow hook to mount on my tail wheel, the glider ones look nice but I can’t afford one of those… Tim

Doug Budd said:

Every small continental I have been around (65 thru 0-200) the primer shoots the gas into the intake spider. So what’s the difference between priming or pumping the throttle. I know most 65s75s and 85s and even 90s don’t have an excelerator pump in the carb But the primer gas still goes into the intake. just wondering

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I don't think there's anything wrong with priming into the spider. If the throttle is closed then the fuel just pools on the throttle plate and then you prop a handful of blades with the mags off to suck the fuel up into the cylinders to prime them. Works like a charm on my C85 with Stromberg (no accel pump).

In terms of securing the plane while hand propping, Scott parking brake valves are a life saver.

^^^^ Yes , but the challenge is determined by engine temperature. The closer to freezing or below the more likely the primed fuel will not vaporize as readily and tend to cling to cold metal in the intake system. The longer the path between the primer's outlet and intake valves the less fuel for starting gets delivered. Hence cylinder priming versus induction spider. My experience only.

Gary

Oh absolutely 100% cylinder priming is the best way to go if possible but there are about 20k J3's out there, probably close to that number of BC12's and many other planes running small Continentals with spider priming. It's certainly not the best way to go but it functions adequately. In cold temps I go 3 shots of primer instead of two and get good results. The true believers in the Stromberg carb note that it has a priming circuit built into it so it's not supposed to need to be primed. If the intake and carb is well sealed you just give it 4-8 blades with the mags off and throttle fully closed and the idle circuit primary vent hole (there are two above the throttle plate in a Stromberg) vents atomized fuel into the spider and primes the cylinders. Doesn't work on my engine but my brother's 65hp Tcart it works like a charm.

Leave your beacon or strobes lights on at all times. Hey idiot you're master is still on. The lights switch is your idiot switch. Leaving your master on happens to the best of us idiots...

NunavutPA-12 said:

Well, it finally happened! 100-miles from the nearest human and I had a dead battery (left master on - will I never learn?) and a defective Earth-X jump pack (those fuses blow so easily!).

On floats now. My arms are not long enough to hold onto the doorframe with my left and crank with my right. Not much to hang onto otherwise. My balance is nowhere near good enough to use my two arms/hands on the prop. I would have ended up in the drink - or worse.

Anyway, thanks to the liberal use of many four-letter words, I managed to start the beast (O-320-160) but it wasn't easy. Left mag only seems to be the best method. I was worried that I would over-prime the engine so I didn't use the primer, just a couple of shots of full throttle seemed to be enough (50 degrees F.)

I found that getting the prop past the "bounce" of the compression stroke is the hard part.

It's a very satisfying exercise when it finally kicks off and you know you're homeward-bound. This is actually the first time in over twenty years that I've had to put theory into practice.

I'm looking for any useful tips on hand-bombing that might help me if there's a "next time".

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Thats a great idea to use the mixture cutoff when hand propping. Never thought of doing that. Would save quite a few wrecks over the years.

peterdillon said:

Thats a great idea to use the mixture cutoff when hand propping. Never thought of doing that. Would save quite a few wrecks over the years.

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Works great on Cubs. On a Cessna, you have to be REALLY fast getting to the mixture control....door gets in the way. Same with anything you have to get aft of the strut. But, I have done it on a Cessna, and caught it in time....just barely.

MTV

Our Cub has reverse so we can hand prop it in reverse heeled in to shore and take your time getting in and switch to forward. When your by yourself way up north with a bad starter thats a pretty handy feature.

peterdillon said:

Thats a great idea to use the mixture cutoff when hand propping. Never thought of doing that. Would save quite a few wrecks over the years.

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No mixture control on the Aeronca Chief but fuel was always off for start. Tail secured unless someone competent on brakes, fuel off, and hat off!