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Thread: Extending flaps and ailerons on standard round tip PA-18 wing

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    Extending flaps and ailerons on standard round tip PA-18 wing

    I am curious if anyone has experience with extending the flaps and ailerons on a standard round tip PA-18 wing (experimental of course). For the flaps taking them from 68” out to 80” (going to 3 hangar P-STOL flap) and for the ailerons extending them out to the last rib where the bow tip wraps around on the outermost part of the wing. For those familiar with Taylor craft they do this on their ailerons. The aileron has to be tapered not only back but out to meet the thinner surface area toward the tip. If anyone has simply put larger flaps or PSTOL flaps on a ROUND tip wing I would love to here feedback.

    concerns are: would you be able to brace the Bow on the trailing edge enough and would the pushed out aileron (being slightly less area than the stock aileron but closer to the tip) be enough roll control at slow flight. Also is the increased flap weight and aileron weight worth it on the wing. Please let me know thoughts or experience, thanks.
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    Normally one would square off the aft portion of the tip allowing the aileron to remain essentially stock. Yes you could round off the outer portion of the aileron but you might want to calculate the low speed response in relationship to the original surface.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Like this? Flaps are 101", Ailerons are shorter than originals but further outboard with no loss of effectiveness noted. Total wing span 41' 8".

    N1PA
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern49 View Post
    I am curious if anyone has experience with extending the flaps and ailerons on a standard round tip PA-18 wing (experimental of course). For the flaps taking them from 68” out to 80” (going to 3 hangar P-STOL flap) and for the ailerons extending them out to the last rib where the bow tip wraps around on the outermost part of the wing. For those familiar with Taylor craft they do this on their ailerons. The aileron has to be tapered not only back but out to meet the thinner surface area toward the tip. If anyone has simply put larger flaps or PSTOL flaps on a ROUND tip wing I would love to here feedback.

    concerns are: would you be able to brace the Bow on the trailing edge enough and would the pushed out aileron (being slightly less area than the stock aileron but closer to the tip) be enough roll control at slow flight. Also is the increased flap weight and aileron weight worth it on the wing. Please let me know thoughts or experience, thanks.
    I don't know how you can get the aileron closer to the tip than it is already. Square the wing off by removing the tip bow and installing 2 more full ribs and move the aileron out to the very tip and then make the flaps long enough to fill the gap. Basically you will have a squared Dakota Cub wing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I don't know how you can get the aileron closer to the tip than it is already. Square the wing off by removing the tip bow and installing 2 more full ribs and move the aileron out to the very tip and then make the flaps long enough to fill the gap. Basically you will have a squared Dakota Cub wing.
    I've seen some very short squared tips (Dakota?) which you could install after a wing mod like this,
    and the wingspan would be very close to stock.
    Seems like that would be pretty nice.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    The current rage is increasing chord of ailerons and flaps. Short deep chord ailerons make room for really long flaps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I don't know how you can get the aileron closer to the tip than it is already. Square the wing off by removing the tip bow and installing 2 more full ribs and move the aileron out to the very tip and then make the flaps long enough to fill the gap. Basically you will have a squared Dakota Cub wing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I already have access to another cub with extended squared off wings, Hendricks tips, and extended ailerons so I am not looking to go that rout. I want to run the rounded stock Piper bow tip on this build. Has anyone heard or had experience putting 80” flaps on a round tip, stock Piper wing?

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern49 View Post
    I already have access to another cub with extended squared off wings, Hendricks tips, and extended ailerons so I am not looking to go that rout. I want to run the rounded stock Piper bow tip on this build. Has anyone heard or had experience putting 80” flaps on a round tip, stock Piper wing?
    I guess I am having trouble visualizing how you can move the aileron out on a tip bowed Piper wing to put the longer flaps? Maybe use a different aileron design that is shorter?
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    Steve Pierce

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    two options:
    1. Simply shorten the inboard portion of the ailerons 10-12” to add 10-12” of flaps (flaps go to triple hangar) or
    2. you extend the ailerons to the last rib on the bow like a Taylor craft (see picture below) and then shorten the inboard portion of the ailerons 10-12” to extend the flaps out 10-12” doing this allows you to keep a similar length aileron on a bow tip wing while going to a longer flap.

    thoughts or experience anyone?


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Why would you want to modify the control surfaces like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    Why would you want to modify the control surfaces like that?

    to put larger flaps on and not sacrifice aileron surface area on a round tip wing (I want to keep round tips on this build).
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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I believe Javron makes a round tip wing extended with the ailerons/flaps like that. I don't think there's a way to do this config without pushing the aileron out and extending the wing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I guess I am having trouble visualizing how you can move the aileron out on a tip bowed Piper wing to put the longer flaps? Maybe use a different aileron design that is shorter?
    spar splice on the end of the wing and push the last two ribs out - of course you’d have to add a rib or two.

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I've never noted any problems with the Taylorcraft aileron vs Piper's. Had a few of both over the years. VG's seem to help the Taylorcraft more than a Piper for aileron control when slow, but maybe it's just me.

    Gary

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