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Constant Speed Prop for O-360 - PA-18 Experimental

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Brian Erickson

Registered User
I am looking for a constant speed prop for a PA-18 with a 180hp O-360.

What are my options? (Prop part # I should be looking for)

Who has one for sale?

I am a new Supercub partner trying to get the project done.

Thank you very much in advance.

cheers!
Brian
 
I have a 200A and it's a great match for my engine. Prop and governor from Whirl Wind will run you about $14k. I never considered MT so I have no idea what they have or what they charge. If you're genuinely interested in the pros and cons you should call Whirl Wind in Ohio and talk to them. You'll get an education about props. 440-275-1540
 
Brian Erickson said:
Are these better (or cheaper) than a comparable MT option?
Click to expand...
Just for your information the Whirlwind blades are made of carbon fiber and the MT blades are wood. If it makes a difference to you. I have the ground adjustable version of the Whirlwind and would use the constant speed version if there was room for the prop governor in my plane. It is a great prop out of the hole and in cruise.
 
Brian Erickson said:
I am looking for a constant speed prop for a PA-18 with a 180hp O-360.

What are my options? (Prop part # I should be looking for)
Click to expand...

CubCrafters uses the Hartzell Trailblazer prop. Available sizes and part numbers as follows:

83″ 2-Blade Carbon Fiber Propeller, Standard Hub HC-C2YR-1N/NG8301
80″ 2-Blade Carbon Fiber Propeller, Standard Hub HC-C2YR-1N/NG8301-3
78″ 2-Blade Carbon Fiber Propeller, Standard Hub HC-C2YR-1N/NG8301-5
76″ 2-Blade Carbon Fiber Propeller, Standard Hub HC-C2YR-1N/NG8301-7


More details of this propeller family are available in TCDS P-920. - https://tinyurl.com/y4sy6thr

CubCrafters offers 80 inch and 83 versions on EX-3 and FX-3.
 
Skywagon brings up a good point. Do you have space for the prop governor?

Honestly at 180hp I’d buy a Whirlwind or Sterna ground adjustable. Approx 30# difference.
 
The ground adjustable is great, you can set it at any pitch you wish in a short amount of time. At a low pitch setting the take off and climb performance is fantastic, the cruise is not. OR when set at a high pitch for a great cruise speed, the takeoff performance is only OK. Trouble is you can't have both on one flight. I wish I could use a constant speed. Yes there is a weight difference which can be compensated for with a small amount of ballast aft.
 
skywagon8a said:
The ground adjustable is great, you can set it at any pitch you wish in a short amount of time. At a low pitch setting the take off and climb performance is fantastic, the cruise is not. OR when set at a high pitch for a great cruise speed, the takeoff performance is only OK. Trouble is you can't have both on one flight. I wish I could use a constant speed. Yes there is a weight difference which can be compensated for with a small amount of ballast aft.
Click to expand...

I'd hate to go back to a fixed pitch prop after getting used to the Trailblazer on my FX-3. 2700 rpm for takeoff then loaf along at 110 mph TAS at 2100 rpm burning 6.5 gph.
 
Does your FX3 have the 393 motor? I know of 5 Carbon Cubs on my home field and all have fixed pitch, but I believe they’re using 340s. For me to advise anyone on a prop is based on my experience and my engine is stronger than most Cubs. And Greg P’s motor is stronger than mine! The prop needs to be coordinated for the engine output.
 
stewartb said:
Does your FX3 have the 393 motor? I know of 5 Carbon Cubs on my home field and all have fixed pitch, but I believe they’re using 340s. For me to advise anyone on a prop is based on my experience and my engine is stronger than most Cubs. And Greg P’s motor is stronger than mine! The prop needs to be coordinated for the engine output.
Click to expand...

All FX-3 use the CC363i which is a parallel valve IO-360 (In my case built by Lycoming). More info here:

http://cubcrafters.com/c/2017/11/cubcrafters-cc363i-power-plant

To the best of my knowledge the CC393i angle valve engine is only used on the XCub where it has the option of 2 blade or 3 blade Trailblazer prop.
 
One of the features of Whirl Wind props is added blade twist near the hub to improve cooling and induction ram air. On the 200A prop it’s easy to see. I’m not as familiar with the 284, but even with their fixed and adjustable props many guys report temperature reductions.

Anyone know what Cub-appropriate MT and Hartzell props cost including the governor? Whirl Wind publishes their prices. I haven’t found pricing for the others.
 

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stewartb said:
Skywagon brings up a good point. Do you have space for the prop governor?

Honestly at 180hp I’d buy a Whirlwind or Sterna ground adjustable. Approx 30# difference.
Click to expand...

No. I don’t have space, but we plan to make it with a stainless steel box cutout on the firewall.

Does the Wirlwind require a special governor?
 
No. The governor they sell fits like any other. My IO-390 has a governor pad up front so no firewall issues. Skywagon’s is on the accessory case so it’s a tight space.
 

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Brian Erickson said:
No. I don’t have space, but we plan to make it with a stainless steel box cutout on the firewall.

Does the Wirlwind require a special governor?
Click to expand...
Make certain there is no tubing behind the firewall which is in the way, as it is in my Javron fuselage. If yours is like the original PA-18 you should be OK to make the cutout.
 
Some time back I saw a picture of a firewall relief that used a stainless steel pet bowl with a flange inset into the firewall. It looked like a great solution.
 
https://www.propilotsinc.com/pa-18-12-propeller-conversion/
This STC has an included box that attaches to the firewall for the needed rear governor clearance, but it's really tight if you have to make any adjustments without swinging the engine mount. When I installed it on a customer's cub I thought the cheap stainless pet dish would allow more room and be a lot easier than fabbing a special box.
 
Thread bump.

I’m shopping for a constant speed prop…experimental PA18, Titan IO-340, dual pMags, 9:1 pistons, 180hp. I was planning to go with Whirlwind but they no longer manufacture the 200A. Their only option is the 300 series which is designed for the RV folks. It’s a fast 3 bladed cruise prop. Not what I want.

The Hartzell Trailblazer is an option, I’ve heard good things.

MT is another option. I have an MT on my other plane.

I would like to know if anybody has real world experience with any other prop (that’s still in production and the company answers phone/email inquiries).

Thanks,

Mr. Ed
 
Mr. Ed said:
The Hartzell Trailblazer is an option, I’ve heard good things.

MT is another option. I have an MT on my other plane.
Click to expand...
Before you make your decision, investigate the aerodynamic advantages of a scimitar shaped propeller blade. Just google "scimitar propeller advantages". Using todays CAD-CAM capabilities along with modern fabrication materials there have been a lot of advances in available propellers.

Scimitar designs have been around for a long time.
220px-1926_Alexander_Eaglerock_NC2568.jpg
 
Brian Erickson said:
We went with an MT:

MTV-15-B/203-58
Click to expand...

MT sales guy recommends the MTV-9 three bladed prop. He says it has a heavier hub. $19,200 plus shipping and crating ��! August 2023 delivery if ordered now. Ouch. The three bladed MT on my other plane doesn’t pull as hard as expected. Probably not enough hp. It’s on an O-360.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I’ve looked at the legacy section. At the top of that page it says that these props are no longer in production but they still sell parts and service. I called and spoke with them and was told the 300 series was my only option.
Click to expand...

Wow, I wasn’t aware. I guess RVs are the bigger market. Not many CS Cubs by comparison. If I didn’t have my WW I’d lean toward Hartzell.
 
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Brian Erickson said:
We went with an MT:

MTV-15-B/203-58
Click to expand...

Brian,

What engine is spinning your MTV-15B? I don’t have very radical pistons, at 9:1, but the guy at MT in FL recommended the 3 blade with bigger hub because of the engine. I’d rather have a 2 blade but don’t want to have any engine/prop combination issues.

When I bought my other MT they recommended the 2 blade. I went with a 3 blade because that plane is tail heavy and I didn’t want to take that much weight off the nose. The 3 blade was just a couple pounds lighter than my old 2 blade prop.
 
I think with an O-340 you're a bit under-engined for a constant speed on a Cub. (And I say that as an O-340 owner with a Catto 42x84 prop installed.) But you may want to look at the Hartzell Trailblazer. I've got the 83" version ordered for an O-370. And for a governor I have an APS model PCU5000-X. The governor was $1888 delivered a few months ago and it weighs 2.18 pounds.

Hartzell has a deal going through the end of this year; $1000 off for members of the RAF.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I’d rather have a 2 blade but don’t want to have any engine/prop combination issues.
Click to expand...
If you have any reservations about compatibility consider a Balance Master. I just installed one and am very satisfied with a noticeable improvement of smoothness.
https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?61360-Balance-Master-PIREP

spinner2 said:
I think with an O-340 you're a bit under-engined for a constant speed on a Cub.
Click to expand...
Not so. Any engine with a constant speed will be able to put out full power on take off and then be an efficient cruise prop. There was a 0320 Cub here on ampibs which when it went to a constant speed prop jumped out of the water, a tremendous improvement over what it was before.

Also generally a two blade prop would be better/more efficient on the smaller engines. The third blade is primarily used to harness higher horsepower.
 
I have a question about a 3-blade on a 4-cylinder. Is one blade aligned with TDC and the others 60° off? 3-blades on a 6-cylinder makes perfect sense. I’ve never been around a 3-blade with a 4-cylinder.
 
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