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Thread: Professional builder /builder assist

  1. #1

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    Professional builder /builder assist

    Hi everyone!
    My name is Mark. Iím an RV guy but hoping to get into some low and slow flying before too much longer. Iíve been reading about the Javron kit and doing a little bit of research and I think this one would be a good choice. My two main dilemmas in building one are time and expertiseÖ.or the lack thereof. So this brings me to my main question for the group. Do you guys recommend anyone who does some kind of ďbuilder assistĒ? Iíd still like to be involved with the build, but I just donít have the time to take on a project like this and see one through from start to finish. I live in Louisiana so itíd be nice to find a professional builder thatís relatively close to me, but not mandatory if I can find the right person to work with. Thanks in advance for help/guidance on this.
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    Jay @ Javron does a builder assist program on site in MN. I do not know the details of it, but his parts and kits are top notch. I dream of building one myself someday.
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    I could be way off here, but Legend Cub does a factory builder assist and their airplanes are pretty similar to javron kits. https://legend.aero/legend-cub-kits/

    They're in sulphur springs tx which isn't too far from louisiana I guess. Maybe that's not what you're looking for, but juts thought I'd throw it out there in case you didn't know about them (you probably do).
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    With any builder assist that is paid for, you need to be aware of the impact it may have on qualifying for Experimental Amateur Built. You will need to complete the Fabrication and Assembly checklist assigning the actual work done to the entity doing the work to see if you qualify for the Major Portion requirement for Amateur Built. If you don't qualify, then your only option is Experimental Exhibition, and the associated limitations.
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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Find a local Louisiana guy familiar with building Cubs and see if you can find what you're looking for close to home. Talk to a few Cub owners and you'll probably come up with a list of names to reach out to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    With any builder assist that is paid for, you need to be aware of the impact it may have on qualifying for Experimental Amateur Built. You will need to complete the Fabrication and Assembly checklist assigning the actual work done to the entity doing the work to see if you qualify for the Major Portion requirement for Amateur Built. If you don't qualify, then your only option is Experimental Exhibition, and the associated limitations.

    TreeTopFlyer33

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    Yes, Iím fully aware if the rules and regulations; Iím just hoping to get some recommendations and guidance towards anyone that may be in the business of doing a builder assist. People that are in business to do this are pretty weíll versed as to exactly what task must be performed by the owner to still qualify for the repairmanís certificate.




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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Find a local Louisiana guy familiar with building Cubs and see if you can find what you're looking for close to home. Talk to a few Cub owners and you'll probably come up with a list of names to reach out to.
    Yes, thatís what Iím hoping to find and hopefully getting guidance and recommendations from people here on the forum.

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Don Wade in Alabama. Building a Javron he calls the Patriot.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Don Wade in Alabama. Building a Javron he calls the Patriot.
    Thank you! Can you have a way to contact him?….email or phone? If so, you can send it to me in a P.M.

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Steve Pierce

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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    I believe Jay Pratt in the Dallas area does builder assist or did. He seems to be primarily in the RV group but I remember he has built or assisted on several Cubs. Would certainly be worth a check.
    It might be old but try this email address

    jay-pratt@sbcglobal.net


    Bill


    also, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t want to spread bad information, but my understanding is that if you don’t do 51% the only thing that really prevents is you getting the repairman certificate that allows you to work on the airplane. It would not have to be licensed in exhibition or another unusual category. It just means that you don’t get the repairman certificate.
    Very Blessed. "It's not an obsession, it's a passion"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    I believe Jay Pratt in the Dallas area does builder assist or did. He seems to be primarily in the RV group but I remember he has built or assisted on several Cubs. Would certainly be worth a check.

    Bill
    Thanks Bill, I’ll reach out to him. Yeah, you’re right, he’s built a lot of RV’s, but I never even even consider him for a Cub build, but he may do those as well.

    Thanks again.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    also, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t want to spread bad information, but my understanding is that if you don’t do 51% the only thing that really prevents is you getting the repairman certificate that allows you to work on the airplane. It would not have to be licensed in exhibition or another unusual category. It just means that you don’t get the repairman certificate.
    There are other limitations than just not getting the repairman's certificate. There are workarounds which defeat the intent of Amateur-built. If too many people abuse the regulations eventually those of us who follow the rules will be punished.
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    also, correct me if Iím wrong, I donít want to spread bad information, but my understanding is that if you donít do 51% the only thing that really prevents is you getting the repairman certificate that allows you to work on the airplane. It would not have to be licensed in exhibition or another unusual category. It just means that you donít get the repairman certificate.
    Having a repairman certificate has no influence at all on the work you can do on the airplane. The only privilege granted by the repairman certificate is the authority to perform the condition inspections.

    But yes, you must show that you met the 51% rule to be granted a repairman certificate. Only one is ever issued for any aircraft.
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    [QUOTE=also, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t want to spread bad information, but my understanding is that if you don’t do 51% the only thing that really prevents is you getting the repairman certificate that allows you to work on the airplane. It would not have to be licensed in exhibition or another unusual category. It just means that you don’t get the repairman certificate.[/QUOTE]

    Yes Bill, you are correct, if the owner doesn’t perform at least the 51% of the task in building the airplane, he/she’s technically not allowed to obtain the repairman’s certificate. However, the repairman’s certificate has absolutely nothing to do being able to “work” on the airplane or not. The only thing the repairman’s certificate allows to do is sign off on your own annual condition inspection. You can work on it all you want to but without the repairman’s certificate you just can’t sign off on your annual condition inspection. You are also correct in that an experimental/amateur built aircraft would not fall under “exhibition” category. That designation is reserved for standard category aircraft that are taken out of that category and then placed in experimental/exhibition. There are some pretty tight rules and regulations that you have to operate under if your aircraft is registered under the experimental/exhibition category.

    Skywagon8a is correct in that those of us that take advantage of a “builder assist” program should take care to keep with the “spirit” of the intent of the rule. However, with that being said, I think the FAA is leaning more towards the inherent increased safety factor that comes with a professional builder assist program and is truly seeing its benefits of such programs.

  16. #16
    stewartb's Avatar
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    If you don’t achieve 51% using the FAA worksheet and point formula you can’t register the plane as the builder. Getting the Repairman's Certificate is a different issue.
    Last edited by stewartb; 08-03-2021 at 03:30 PM.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeTopFlyer33 View Post
    I think the FAA is leaning more towards the inherent increased safety factor that comes with a professional builder assist program and is truly seeing its benefits of such programs.
    This may be true however, you may find the builder assist program must have the FAA's blessing. An individual just employing Joe Blow to assist him in the construction is likely not acceptable. This is one area where you will find "some bending of the rules".
    N1PA
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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Pro build assistance has a separate column on the points tally sheet. Not a big deal if the arithmetic works.

    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_20-27G.pdf
    Last edited by stewartb; 08-03-2021 at 05:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    I believe Jay Pratt in the Dallas area does builder assist or did. He seems to be primarily in the RV group but I remember he has built or assisted on several Cubs. Would certainly be worth a check.
    It might be old but try this email address

    jay-pratt@sbcglobal.net


    Bill


    also, correct me if Iím wrong, I donít want to spread bad information, but my understanding is that if you donít do 51% the only thing that really prevents is you getting the repairman certificate that allows you to work on the airplane. It would not have to be licensed in exhibition or another unusual category. It just means that you donít get the repairman certificate.
    If you canít meet the 51% (actually major portion) based on the point in the fabrication and assembly checklist, you donít qualify for Amateur Built, and you wonít get that as your airworthiness certificate. You might qualify for Exhibition, but that has more restrictive limitations. Remember, 91.319 says Experimental aircraft can only be operated for the PURPOSE for which the certificate was issued.

    You donít personally need to build all the airplane, but the major portion needs to be built for education or recreation. That can be multiple people, multiple owners. But as soon as someone receivers compensation, that persons contribution is no longer for education or recreation.

    Now all that said, there are many people that cheat and lie on the 8130-12, just remember, making false statements on that form is subject to fines (up to $10,000 I believe) and up to 5 years in prison. Now the question here, is it worth 5 years to lie on the form to meet the major portion for Amateur Built?


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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeTopFlyer33 View Post
    Yes Bill, you are correct, if the owner doesnít perform at least the 51% of the task in building the airplane, he/sheís technically not allowed to obtain the repairmanís certificate. However, the repairmanís certificate has absolutely nothing to do being able to ďworkĒ on the airplane or not. The only thing the repairmanís certificate allows to do is sign off on your own annual condition inspection. You can work on it all you want to but without the repairmanís certificate you just canít sign off on your annual condition inspection. You are also correct in that an experimental/amateur built aircraft would not fall under ďexhibitionĒ category. That designation is reserved for standard category aircraft that are taken out of that category and then placed in experimental/exhibition. There are some pretty tight rules and regulations that you have to operate under if your aircraft is registered under the experimental/exhibition category.

    Skywagon8a is correct in that those of us that take advantage of a ďbuilder assistĒ program should take care to keep with the ďspiritĒ of the intent of the rule. However, with that being said, I think the FAA is leaning more towards the inherent increased safety factor that comes with a professional builder assist program and is truly seeing its benefits of such programs.
    Not true about Exhibition being reserved for standard category. Iíve issued Exhibition certificates on CH701s that donít meet amateur built requirements, L-39s that have no US basis for certification, and any number of other airplanes and helicopters that never were standard. The greater majority of gliders are Exhibition, AN-2s are Exhibition, at work I deal with a lot of ex-military jets(Kfir, Hawker Hunter, A-4, F-5, L-39, L-29, and a lot of others) and they are all Exhibition. 21.191 list all the various purposes for Experimental certificates. The only ones that have specific qualifications to be met for certification are Amateur built, primary kit built, and kit built light sport. All the other purposes can be issued to any aircraft, it just limits what they can be used for.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Not true about Exhibition being reserved for standard category. I’ve issued Exhibition certificates on CH701s that don’t meet amateur built requirements, L-39s that have no US basis for certification, and any number of other airplanes and helicopters that never were standard. The greater majority of gliders are Exhibition, AN-2s are Exhibition, at work I deal with a lot of ex-military jets(Kfir, Hawker Hunter, A-4, F-5, L-39, L-29, and a lot of others) and they are all Exhibition. 21.191 list all the various purposes for Experimental certificates. The only ones that have specific qualifications to be met for certification are Amateur built, primary kit built, and kit built light sport. All the other purposes can be issued to any aircraft, it just limits what they can be used for.


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    Interesting. I’ve only seen standard category and ex-military aircraft placed in the experimental/exhibition category, but never a kit/experimental aircraft in that category. Learn something new everyday. ��

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    Lots of gliders in US are experimental exhibition and racing and most of them are factory built. The only burden is the annual program letter.
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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Can't be too hard to hit 51%. Cub Crafters does it in one week, with time for nice lunches and dinners. And they don't lie on the form.

    Bill
    Very Blessed. "It's not an obsession, it's a passion"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Can't be too hard to hit 51%. Cub Crafters does it in one week, with time for nice lunches and dinners. And they don't lie on the form.

    Bill
    Exactly!!….and so do other companies such as glasair with their “two week to taxi” program.

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    Professional builder /builder assist

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Can't be too hard to hit 51%. Cub Crafters does it in one week, with time for nice lunches and dinners. And they don't lie on the form.

    Bill
    Thatís why I always recommend using the fabrication and assembly checklist BEFORE you start the build. Map out what you will pay someone else to do, and what you will do before you start so you know you will meet the ďmajor portionĒ requirement.

    https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/...syCklistFW.pdf

    Thatís the same checklist your DAR will be using when he is there to issue your certificate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Can't be too hard to hit 51%. Cub Crafters does it in one week, with time for nice lunches and dinners.
    It actually takes two visits, or at least it did for me. The first week is fabrication of parts that the factory will use for the build. Then there is a second visit for some final assembly work and DAR inspection, interview, and issuance of the airworthiness cert.

    I would have liked to have spent longer and done more of the work. Others are happy to do the minimum possible.

    It was obvious from discussions with people at the factory that people who do the factory assist program have quite a range of skill level. Perhaps because of this CubCrafters offers no encouragement or support to those who want a repairman certificate. It was easy to have the local FSDO issue mine when I got home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    With any builder assist that is paid for, you need to be aware of the impact it may have on qualifying for Experimental Amateur Built. You will need to complete the Fabrication and Assembly checklist assigning the actual work done to the entity doing the work to see if you qualify for the Major Portion requirement for Amateur Built. If you don't qualify, then your only option is Experimental Exhibition, and the associated limitations.
    It seems to me that an airplane built by a hired gun would still qualify as an E-AB, as long as the checklist showed over 51%.
    The only issue is that the hired gun should be listed as builder, & should be the only one qualified to get the repairman certificate.
    The one issue I have with "owner assist" programs some kit manufacturers have is that they skirt around that aspect,
    when the owner (who generally speaking didn't do much on the build) is listed as builder.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    What most don’t understand is the points checklist and the formula to tally points. Points are scored by items on the worksheet. It isn’t a timecard, the categories for scoring points are written by the FAA. The final score is what determines 51%. Guys who’ve never done it shouldn’t comment about it unless they understand the process. It isn’t what many would imagine and it isn’t difficult to get 51% of the points even with builder assist.

    My airworthiness inspection included a very thorough looking over by my DAR and a retired peer of his. I enjoyed their critiques and comments and made a few changes that they recommended. It was like a teaching session. That was a fun day and I still reach out to my DAR occasionally for advice. He’s not an FAA policeman. He’s an airplane safety advocate. I think that’s how it should be. Very educational.

    When I had my repairman’s certificate interview I was in a conference room in FSDO with two inspectors who conducted a very detailed interview. Not an interrogation but they definitely were looking for knowledge and familiarity. That would have been hard to bluff and pass. In the end I learned from them and enjoyed that process, too.
    Last edited by stewartb; 08-04-2021 at 09:46 AM.
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    51 % rule/repairmanís certificate

    I personally think the rules and regulations regarding the repairmanís certificate and the ď51%Ē rule is outdated and serves no purpose other than generating bureaucratic paperwork.

    If the airplane is registered as an experimental, than it needs to be experimental. Remember, the repairmanís certificate has absolutely nothing to do with repairing and maintaining the aircraft, and it only becomes relevant one time per year when some stranger that probably knows nothing about your airplane and very possibly has never work on your particular type of aircraft, will give it their blessing.

    I think a smarter way to insure safety would be to have an owner go through some kind of maintenance course or pass a test to evaluate their knowledge. Iíve known very knowledgeable people that have built many aircraft and could maintain them while blindfolded, but would have to go through the same old song and dance once per year and have to get an A&P to sign off on the logbooks merely because ďtheyĒ werenít the builder and didnít possess the repairmanís certificate. These same people are even knowledgeable enough to do pre-buy inspections for other people looking at purchasing an airplane. Once again, I think some kind of written test or possibly a week long maintenance course, similarly to whatís in place for light sport, would be a much more valuable tool to insure safety rather than a random snapshot in time when an A&P comes out to sign your logbook.
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    stewartb's Avatar
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    My opinion as a participant is that the rules and the system work great. I'm a reasonable guy and I understand my limitations. While I do hold the repairman's cert for my plane I still like bringing in a second set of eyes occasionally, and those eyes belong to pro mechanics. They aren't required to sign my logs but they wouldn't hesitate if I asked.
    Last edited by stewartb; 08-04-2021 at 12:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    It seems to me that an airplane built by a hired gun would still qualify as an E-AB, as long as the checklist showed over 51%.
    The only issue is that the hired gun should be listed as builder, & should be the only one qualified to get the repairman certificate.
    The one issue I have with "owner assist" programs some kit manufacturers have is that they skirt around that aspect,
    when the owner (who generally speaking didn't do much on the build) is listed as builder.
    If the "hired gun" builds the airplane, then all those tasks he completes go in the commercial assistance column and don't count towards the 51%. Any tasks that are paid for are commercial assistance, not builder tasks. Column B on the checklist, not columns C and D. Only the points in C & D as compared to the total of columns A,B,C, and D count towards the 51%.

    The only way that would work is if the "hired gun" purchased the kit, then did all the work for his "Entertainment and education", then sold the airplane after it was completed. Problem there, it falls into the same grey area as straw purchases with guns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeTopFlyer33 View Post
    I personally think the rules and regulations regarding the repairman’s certificate and the “51%” rule is outdated and serves no purpose other than generating bureaucratic paperwork.

    If the airplane is registered as an experimental, than it needs to be experimental. Remember, the repairman’s certificate has absolutely nothing to do with repairing and maintaining the aircraft, and it only becomes relevant one time per year when some stranger that probably knows nothing about your airplane and very possibly has never work on your particular type of aircraft, will give it their blessing.

    I think a smarter way to insure safety would be to have an owner go through some kind of maintenance course or pass a test to evaluate their knowledge. I’ve known very knowledgeable people that have built many aircraft and could maintain them while blindfolded, but would have to go through the same old song and dance once per year and have to get an A&P to sign off on the logbooks merely because “they” weren’t the builder and didn’t possess the repairman’s certificate. These same people are even knowledgeable enough to do pre-buy inspections for other people looking at purchasing an airplane. Once again, I think some kind of written test or possibly a week long maintenance course, similarly to what’s in place for light sport, would be a much more valuable tool to insure safety rather than a random snapshot in time when an A&P comes out to sign your logbook.
    In many ways I tend to agree, but then you would not be talking about an Amateur Built airplane. The problem is that the current FAA rule for Experimental aircraft has no option other than the current 9 purposes listed in 21.191. To change it requires rulemaking, and that is a 5+ year timeframe and lots of $ of our tax dollars. Feel free to petition FAA to change the rules, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeTopFlyer33 View Post
    I personally think the rules and regulations regarding the repairman’s certificate and the “51%” rule is outdated and serves no purpose other than generating bureaucratic paperwork.

    If the airplane is registered as an experimental, than it needs to be experimental. Remember, the repairman’s certificate has absolutely nothing to do with repairing and maintaining the aircraft, and it only becomes relevant one time per year when some stranger that probably knows nothing about your airplane and very possibly has never work on your particular type of aircraft, will give it their blessing.

    I think a smarter way to insure safety would be to have an owner go through some kind of maintenance course or pass a test to evaluate their knowledge. I’ve known very knowledgeable people that have built many aircraft and could maintain them while blindfolded, but would have to go through the same old song and dance once per year and have to get an A&P to sign off on the logbooks merely because “they” weren’t the builder and didn’t possess the repairman’s certificate. These same people are even knowledgeable enough to do pre-buy inspections for other people looking at purchasing an airplane. Once again, I think some kind of written test or possibly a week long maintenance course, similarly to what’s in place for light sport, would be a much more valuable tool to insure safety rather than a random snapshot in time when an A&P comes out to sign your logbook.
    A real life example of this problem:

    I have CNC'd a large number of parts specific to my airplane many experimental (but tame) in nature. While no A&P has ever believed any of my modifications cause any reason to be concerned about safety, finding an A&P to sign his name on the liability line has gotten harder and harder every year. I absolutely appreciate all A&Ps and welcome review of my work. For someone mechanically and intellectually capable to have the inability to get the repairman cert on a pre-cert'd airplane they own, they have designed and rebuilt most if not all systems on, is maddening.

    I will build another airplane to solve this issue, but the lack of a path to a repairman cert without a full A&P ticket is something that faces many experimental aircraft owners. I will gladly explain every part/system/assembly and sit for any test on my own airplane. My life depends on my ability to do so as I am the one sitting at the controls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado-Cub View Post
    A real life example of this problem:

    I have CNC'd a large number of parts specific to my airplane many experimental (but tame) in nature. While no A&P has ever believed any of my modifications cause any reason to be concerned about safety, finding an A&P to sign his name on the liability line has gotten harder and harder every year. I absolutely appreciate all A&Ps and welcome review of my work. For someone mechanically and intellectually capable to have the inability to get the repairman cert on a pre-cert'd airplane they own, they have designed and rebuilt most if not all systems on, is maddening.

    I will build another airplane to solve this issue, but the lack of a path to a repairman cert without a full A&P ticket is something that faces many experimental aircraft owners. I will gladly explain every part/system/assembly and sit for any test on my own airplane. My life depends on my ability to do so as I am the one sitting at the controls.
    All that work you did on your aircraft can at least in part qualify you to take the test for being a mechanic. For the A&P, you need to show the equivalent of 30 months full time work, or about 5000 hours practical experience.

    I know it can be frustrating, but there are A&Ps that are willing to help. You did hit the nail on the head though, a lot of guys are risk averse, and donít want to put their name in a log book. Donít blame the A&Ps, blame the lawyers and their clients. They are the ones that have created the environment where nobody wants to put their name on anything.


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  35. #35

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    I don't blame the A&Ps one bit. They are put into such a tough spot yet every one I have met has gone out of their way to help and provide guidance.
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  36. #36
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado-Cub View Post
    finding an A&P to sign his name on the liability line has gotten harder and harder every year.
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    I know it can be frustrating, but there are A&Ps that are willing to help. You did hit the nail on the head though, a lot of guys are risk averse, and don’t want to put their name in a log book. Don’t blame the A&Ps, blame the lawyers and their clients. They are the ones that have created the environment where nobody wants to put their name on anything.
    dgapilot is absolutely correct on this subject. Every other year (except this year) the IAs need to meet with the FAA in March to renew their authorizations. Often the FAA legal department will make a presentation. After sitting through this presentation, it is a wonder every IA in the room doesn't stand up, throw his ticket on the table and walk out. Lawyers and sue happy people have made the profession in which most of us involved do it for the love of aviation, a very litigious occupation. It is not unusual for an unlicensed aircraft owner to accomplish something "not according to Hoyle" on his airplane. Then he presents it to the mechanic expecting the mechanic to bless it. Hopefully the mechanic finds it. Sometimes it doesn't make it's presence known until it breaks creating legal problems for the mechanic. It just is not something a mechanic should be expected to sign away his life savings upon.
    N1PA
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    When I had my repairman’s certificate interview I was in a conference room in FSDO with two inspectors who conducted a very detailed interview. Not an interrogation but they definitely were looking for knowledge and familiarity. That would have been hard to bluff and pass. In the end I learned from them and enjoyed that process, too.
    My experience was very different. My FSDO inspector had read the FAA order and knew that all he had to do was see the build log and check list. I submitted both by email and, since FSDO office was closed due to COVID, met the inspector in the parking lot for required signatures. I would have been willing to submit to a much more rigorous process but it's not required.

    Edited - Build log and checklist were not submitted by email. The inspector pulled them from the FAA aircraft records. I only had to submit the application and a signed copy of the "bill of rights"
    Last edited by frequent_flyer; 08-05-2021 at 09:27 AM.
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  38. #38
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    Someone is building 51% of a javron type build. I think the work around cubcrafters is using is having an LLC build the airplane and then after its sold the "owner" of the LLC is changed to the current owner of the airplane and he can annually inspect it. I think that is what i have heard

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Someone is building 51% of a javron type build. I think the work around cubcrafters is using is having an LLC build the airplane and then after its sold the "owner" of the LLC is changed to the current owner of the airplane and he can annually inspect it. I think that is what i have heard
    Multiple people can participate in a CubCrafters factory assist build. These people may, or may not, be members of an LLC. The LLC can be the registered builder, and the registered owner, but only one individual can be the holder of the repairman certificate. The repairman certificate should only be granted to an individual who can prove participation in the build.
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  40. #40
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The LLC is set up to protect the purchaser's heirs in case something happens to the builder before the aircraft is complete.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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