8.50 x 6 Tires for the PA18...Brand preference?

[WindOnHisNose]

I decided to replace my 8.50 x 6 tires and took a photo of the tires and sent it to the maintenance shop. The Goodyear’s lasted me 20 years, and I had no complaints. I took the old tires/wheels to have the new ones installed and when I got them today they are Michelin. My experience with Michelin auto tires has been very positive, but this sort of surprised me.

I am not interested in Desser’s. Your thoughts?

Thanks!

Randy

[cubdriver2]

The first thing a patient needs before a second opinion is an open mind.

Glenn

[Tennessee]

At my experience level, I personally doubt that I could tell any difference between the landing characteristics of the different brands of 8.5 tires. For me, they are kind of a commodity - just a good compromise between durability on hard surface runways and tolerance of rougher strips.

[Steve Pierce]

Round profile.

[OLDCROWE]

Round profile.

and black.

[Utah-Jay]

Why the Desser hate?

[Crash, Jr.]

Desser tires are mainly made in China or Vietnam and are of a fairly low quality. Lots of warranty claims has been my experience with them.

I always try to get customers into the Goodyear Flight Special 850x6's. Zero issues and the longest lasting tires in my experience.

[RedOwlAirfield]

I took the old tires/wheels to have the new ones installed and when I got them today they are Michelin.

I hadn't seen - or even heard of - Michelin Aviation Tires before. Is this a recent addition to the market that I've missed - or is this as odd as I think it is? Is Michelin a practical option for aviation tires? Anybody have any experience with them - on airplanes?

[Utah-Jay]

Desser tires are mainly made in China or Vietnam and are of a fairly low quality. Lots of warranty claims has been my experience with them.

I always try to get customers into the Goodyear Flight Special 850x6's. Zero issues and the longest lasting tires in my experience.

Would this include Aero Classic tires?

[CRANMAN]

Correct me if I am wrong (and I am sure someone will LOL} the Michelin tires used to be BF Goodrich.

[arborite]

Michelin has been making GA tires for a long time. i have one now on the nose of the Bonanza. really good tires.

[frequent_flyer]

I hadn't seen - or even heard of - Michelin Aviation Tires before. Is this a recent addition to the market that I've missed - or is this as odd as I think it is? Is Michelin a practical option for aviation tires? Anybody have any experience with them - on airplanes?

"MICHELIN® Aircraft Tyres provide bias tires, radial tires, and tubes for aviation customers around the world, in a range of applications including commercial and regional airlines, general aviation and military aviation. Michelin technology’s working with the biggest companies and constructors in the world (Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, Comac, Dassault, Embraer, Gulfstream, Hondajet, Lockheed Martin, Pilatus, Sukhoï, Textron, ...). 50 years of experience in aircraft tire production, 250 customers place their trust in us, We work alongside 90 percent of the top 20 airlines companies, Almost 50 percent of commercial aircrafts land with Michelin tires, Aviation operations in 87 countries, Over 3 million radial aircraft tires have been manufactured.Thanks to its global reputation, Michelin is internationally recognized as the No.1 tire manufacturer in the world.For over 100 years, Michelin has confronted challenges faced by the aeropace industry. It has pioneered new technology, seeking to development offerings that provide greater mobility solutions. Michelin continues to offer the best in aircraft tire innovations and safety."

[Crash, Jr.]

Would this include Aero Classic tires?

Yes. Check the sidewall and you will find "made in China/Taiwan/Vietnam" in small letters. If you're buying "little" tires you may as well pay the extra $40 and get the Goodyear or Michelin.

[Steve Pierce]

Been years since I bought or ran an Aero Classic but that was always my tire of choice for 800 and 850x6. Round profile and gave good service. What is the issue with them?

[hotrod180]

I like Airtracs, mainly because of the rounded profile.

[WindOnHisNose]

Desser tires are mainly made in China or Vietnam and are of a fairly low quality. Lots of warranty claims has been my experience with them.

I always try to get customers into the Goodyear Flight Special 850x6's. Zero issues and the longest lasting tires in my experience.

cubdriver2, this is why I eliminated Desser as an option for me. I understand this may be an option for you.


Randy

[Crash, Jr.]

Been years since I bought or ran an Aero Classic but that was always my tire of choice for 800 and 850x6. Round profile and gave good service. What is the issue with them?

Cracking around the bead within a year, balance issues, and they flat spot easier than the Goodyear tires. The Desser butyl rubber inner tubes also have issues with cracking around the valve stem and splitting at the seams.

The Goodyear 850's are a grand total of $41 more per tire than the Chinese made Dessers so why not? The Desser 850x6 4 ply tundra is the only one I'd recommend from them.

I shouldn't say the Desser tires have had a HUGE warranty rate, just a fairly normal one whereas I have never had to warranty a Goodyear tire. Dan from Reeves told me early on to try and sell the Goodyears and with his 40+ years of experience I took that as holy writ.

[Utah-Jay]

Cracking around the bead within a year, balance issues, and they flat spot easier than the Goodyear tires. The Desser butyl rubber inner tubes also have issues with cracking around the valve stem and splitting at the seams.

The Goodyear 850's are a grand total of $41 more per tire than the Chinese made Dessers so why not? The Desser 850x6 4 ply tundra is the only one I'd recommend from them.

I shouldn't say the Desser tires have had a HUGE warranty rate, just a fairly normal one whereas I have never had to warranty a Goodyear tire. Dan from Reeves told me early on to try and sell the Goodyears and with his 40+ years of experience I took that as holy writ.

OK, now we are getting somewhere… sorry for the thread hijack… Can I run the Goodyear tubeless 26’s at a lower PSI? Say in the 10-12psi range?

And the GY 26’s are 6” rim, not a 10” rim

[WhiskeyMike]

If you're interested, check out the wight difference and actual dimensions as there's quite a bit of variance. We had good luck with Desser retreads, but they're quite heavy as I recall. (not recommended for retractable gear as the added size can make retraction a one way street.)

[Utah-Jay]

If you're interested, check out the wight difference and actual dimensions as there's quite a bit of variance. We had good luck with Desser retreads, but they're quite heavy as I recall. (not recommended for retractable gear as the added size can make retraction a one way street.)

You guys are killing me, I was prepared for the 29” Dessers smoothies. I don’t like the idea of the 10” wheels for those though. 6” wheels gives more long term flexibility

[Crash, Jr.]

OK, now we are getting somewhere… sorry for the thread hijack… Can I run the Goodyear tubeless 26’s at a lower PSI? Say in the 10-12psi range?

And the GY 26’s are 6” rim, not a 10” rim

Some thread hijack going from 850x6 to 26's and 29's but I'll bite.

Experimentally you could do whatever you wanted. I don't think the 26" Goodyears make all that soft of a tire at any pressure but I suppose you could run them that low. Once I got around to checking the 26 GY's on my J3 they were only at 5psi with tubes and didn't slip. I imagine with good brakes and an aggressive braking technique you may have problems however. Tubeless and tubed have the same issues with tires spinning on the rim. Tubeless can easily pop off bead and deflate if run at too low a pressure and the rim slips. That's why off road trucks use beadlock rims to prevent this. To run 26 GY's at 10-12psi on a heavier aircraft with good brakes and you are pushing your luck.

You have to choose between longevity on pavement and softness off airport. There are still no free lunches in tires 26" and larger.

[Steve Pierce]

I haven't bought any Airtrac tires in several years but never had a problem. Is this a recent issue or been going on a long time? Had a 26" replaced under warranty in Feb odlf 2019 for splitting bead and tread. Photos posted here.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yLeE1oU4DWbCSH6i7

[supilot]

I used desser 8.50x6s and never had an issue and I was probably pushing the limit with them. Know several others who have gotten good service out of them as well. I think they make a good cub tire. I now run Michelin 8.50x6s and they’re great as well. I wanted a 6 ply vs 4 ply because of my gross weight (3000 lbs). At heavy weights with heavy braking, I can get them (Michelin) to spin on the wheel a little easier than I could the dessers at the same tire pressure. If they ever wear out, I’ll buy another set of Michelins.

[supilot]

As far as manufacturing defects, the only issue I’ve had is with the aero classic 404 glider tires I’ve ordered from airframes. I’m assuming there was a bad batch. They literally came with holes in them that you could only see if you flexed them. Airframes took care of it real quick for me 👍🏼.

[RaisedByWolves]

My dad has had a set on his 172 mains for 4 years now and probably 4-500 hrs. No problems. They were the same weight as the 600x6’s that came off


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[don d]

Have 27.5 aero classic. Run 5 to 7 # pressure tubeless. Love em.

[frequent_flyer]

Ok, hands up those who want Made in America. Would you want a tire that was made in Thailand? (Yes it's a trick question)

[Steve Pierce]

People are cheap, you find out their true convictions when you get in their pocketbook.

[frequent_flyer]

Ok, hands up those who want Made in America. Would you want a tire that was made in Thailand? (Yes it's a trick question)

Only one tentative bite.

The Goodyear 8.50x6 tires that I removed from my 2020 build FX-3 were made in Thailand.

[Crash, Jr.]

So I stand corrected. Just checked the tire rack and here's where the 850x6's are made:

Michelin: Thailand
Goodyear: Thailand
STA (Specialty Tires of America AKA Desser) Air Trac: USA

Other tire sizes like 800x6 and 700x6 have the Goodyears and Michelins made in the USA and the Desser tailwheel tires, and Airhawk lines are made overseas. To be perfectly clear, the majority of the tires I've dealt with under warranty were the Airhawk line and not the Air Trac line. Different quality levels from the same manufacturer apparently.

[RVBottomly]

So I stand corrected. Just checked the tire rack and here's where the 850x6's are made:

Michelin: Thailand
Goodyear: Thailand
STA (Specialty Tires of America AKA Desser) Air Trac: USA

Other tire sizes like 800x6 and 700x6 have the Goodyears and Michelins made in the USA and the Desser tailwheel tires, and Airhawk lines are made overseas. To be perfectly clear, the majority of the tires I've dealt with under warranty were the Airhawk line and not the Air Trac line. Different quality levels from the same manufacturer apparently.

Heh. Before you posted this you made me go out and look. Yup. My Air Tracs say "Made in USA"

[hotrod180]

I've heard comments on this site (mostly from one person) that airtrac 850's
1) are smaller than GY 850's,
and
2) don't wear as well as GY's.

My C180 had a set of Desser-recapped 850 GY's on it when I bought it (they wore like iron BTW).
I replaced them with a set of Airtrac 850's,
and didn't notice any significant difference in size.
3-1/2 years later, I have 874 landings on those tires, mostly on paved runways,
and they still have a lot of life left in them.
So they seem pretty durable to me.

FWIW that same person always sez the 26" GY's are hardly any bigger than 850's,
here's a pic of a 26" GY next to a mounted 850 GY recap.



And a pic of a 26" GY compared to an 850 airtrac.

[mvivion]

I've heard comments on this site (mostly from one person) that airtrac 850's
1) are smaller than GY 850's,
and
2) don't wear as well as GY's.

My C180 had a set of Desser-recapped 850 GY's on it when I bought it (they wore like iron BTW).
I replaced them with a set of Airtrac 850's,
and didn't notice any significant difference in size.
3-1/2 years later, I have 874 landings on those tires, mostly on paved runways,
and they still have a lot of life left in them.
So they seem pretty durable to me.

FWIW that same person always sez the 26" GY's are hardly any bigger than 850's,
here's a pic of a 26" GY next to a mounted 850 GY recap.



And a pic of a 26" GY compared to an 850 airtrac.

Well, that "someone" would be me, I'd guess.

1) I stand by my statement that Goodyear (and Michelin, BTW) are larger in diameter than the Airtrac 8.50s. Perhaps the Airtracs have increased in size, but those "smooth 8.50s" they put out look tiny by comparison. I've actually put MOUNTED Airtracs next to MOUNTED Goodyears, and there was a good inch difference in diameter. BTW, those came off the same airplane, a 185, that had some handling issues..... Is the difference in size huge? No. But, as Steve Pierce alluded to in this thread, the Airtracs have a much more rounded profile, where the Goodyears have a much more square profile. Put a load on those different tires at operating pressures and measure them.....that's where it actually counts, NOT uninflated, laying on the floor.

2) I've run quite a few tires over the years on various airplanes. It has now been quite a few years since I ran Desser 8.50s because, as others have noted, I just got a LOT more wear out of Goodyear tires. That's my experience, your experience may differ. So be it.

As to your photos, I think you need to consider comparing apples to apples.....for example: "here's a pic of a 26" GY next to a mounted 850 GY recap." A SMOOTH GY recap may or may not represent an actual Goodyear production 8.50. And, the 26 inch Goodyear is not inflated, which generally tends to splay the tire out some. Comparing a mounted and inflated tire to an uninflated tire can be misleading.

Then you compare a 26 inch Goodyear to a Desser 8.50. As I noted, the Desser 8.50s have a rounded profile, and aren't that large in diameter anyway.

When discussing the Goodyear 26 inch Blimp tires, the argument that many suggest is that they are actually 26 inch diameter tires. They are NOT 26 inch diameter tires when inflated to operating pressure and mounted on an airplane. Compare a Goodyear Blimp tire to an actual 26 inch tire, such as an Alaskan Bushwheel 26 inch, and you'll see how much smaller they actually are. They're much closer in diameter to an inflated Goodyear 8.50 than they are to an actual 26 inch tire. The blimp tires are WIDER than an 8.50 tire, and that's important when it comes to floatation. Pick your medicine. The single biggest issue with the Blimp tires is that there are very few approvals for them on production aircraft.....and they are heavy.

Finally, I have had two faulty Desser tubes recently, and will never purchase their tubes again. I know two others who've had similar experience. I hope Desser figures that out and fixes it, but till then, no thanks.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am now running Desser Air Trac 8.50 x 10 tires on my airplane, mostly because the Goodyear 8.50 x 10 tires have more plys and are HEAVY. I'm actually hoping these tires will wear a bit, frankly. Time will tell, but so far, so good. Goodyear natural rubber tubes, BTW.

A fellow I know installed a set of the Desser smooth 8.50 x 10 tires last year, and they are cracking badly already. Bad batch? I dunno, my treaded 8.50 x 10s seem to be holding up after a year and a half.

I have just NEVER had a bad Goodyear aircraft tire or tube, and I had a set on my 170B for a loooong time, always parked outdoors. I have had bad Desser tires and bad Desser tubes.

That's my experience. As to sizes, it's all relative, so pick the flavor that winds your watch. But compare apples to apples.

MTV

[Charlie Longley]

Good Year and Michelin both make a good product. I am probably going to put some GY 8.50’s on my Super Cub project initially.

[hotrod180]

....Then you compare a 26 inch Goodyear to a Desser 8.50. As I noted, the Desser 8.50s have a rounded profile, and aren't that large in diameter anyway.....
In the spirit of full disclosure, I am now running Desser Air Trac 8.50 x 10 tires on my airplane, mostly because the Goodyear 8.50 x 10 tires have more plys and are HEAVY. I'm actually hoping these tires will wear a bit, frankly. Time will tell, but so far, so good. Goodyear natural rubber tubes, BTW.
A fellow I know installed a set of the Desser smooth 8.50 x 10 tires last year, and they are cracking badly already. Bad batch? I dunno, my treaded 8.50 x 10s seem to be holding up after a year and a half.
I have just NEVER had a bad Goodyear aircraft tire or tube, and I had a set on my 170B for a loooong time, always parked outdoors. I have had bad Desser tires and bad Desser tubes.

Mike, Desser makes Aero Classics (some of which are smoothies), STA (Specialty Tires of America) makes Airtracs.
Two different brands.

[stewartb]

My tires die from weather checking before the tread wears out. Aero Classic is the worst offender. Bushwheels are right up there. AirTracs and AirHawks do okay. Hell, I have two sets of badly checked AitTracs in the hangar, but both are at least 25 years old. I need new 850s for the Cessna skis. I think I’ll buy Michelins. They appear to hold up well.

[bcone1381]

I'll be getting 8.50x6 tires soon for my build and want a smooth tire. What products have smooth tread besides the Desser 850x6 4 ply tundra tire? I wonder if a retread is the only way to go smooth with a Michelin or GY? Who make the best inner tube?

[mvivion]

A while back, there was a spate of synthetic tubes splitting. I had one split wide open upon first inflation. Others got farther along before they turned loose. These were the “Leak Guard” tubes. I was advised to only buy natural rubber tubes. Last I’ve bought were Goodyears.

Natural rubber tubes leak a little over time. Not a bad idea to check tire pressures occasionally anyway.

Hopefully, whatever the issue was with those “Leak Guard” tubes has been fixed. This was last year.

MTV

[hotrod180]

LeakGuard tubes used to be the way to go,
but lately I've been hearing bad reports on them.
Lately a local shop has had a number of them fail prematurely,
either by splitting or due to pinholes / porosity issues.