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Thread: Van's RV-15

  1. #1

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    Van's RV-15

    For those of us who like to roll our own, looks like Van's Aircraft is serving up an all metal bush plane.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...5-in-the-works

    fun fun, John
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  2. #2
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to seeing that one.
    I read that Van had learned to fly in T-Crafts,
    I kind of expected a hi-wing design from him to come out years ago.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    courierguy's Avatar
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    The RANS S-21 builders and fliers are all over VAN's announcement.... the general consensus seems to be that VANS is late to the party. No one is expressing any "I wish I would have waited" sentiments as of yet. It will be interesting to see if it's a full sized Lyc powered bird, or more of a smaller high wing RV-12 Rotax machine.
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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    If it is a two seat I think it will be "OK". Tons of two seaters out there.

    If they can replicate a C-185 (4 seat, big door for loading), I think they will have huge success.

    JMHO and all that.

    Bill
    Very Blessed. "It's not an obsession, it's a passion"

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    I believe the Cyclone kit has new ownership and will be returning to the market.
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    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    If it is a two seat I think it will be "OK". Tons of two seaters out there.

    If they can replicate a C-185 (4 seat, big door for loading), I think they will have huge success.

    JMHO and all that.

    Bill
    You mean like a Bearhawk 4 Place or Model 5?

    Hard to match the wide speed envelope of the BH, the Super Cub like Patrol cruises at 145mph and stalls in the low 30’s with 2000 gross weight built for the utility category, the 4 place cruises at 145 to 165 depending on engine choice (360 or the 540) and still stalls at 40mph

    Bottom line… Vans is the 800 pound gorilla in the room of kit planes
    Bearhawk Companion QB Builder
    Revo Sunglasses Ambassador
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  7. #7

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    The Bearhawk 5 will probably attract more attention from Maule guys than Skywagon guys.
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  8. #8
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    If I was Vans I would have done exactly the same thing. It’s PR 101 to take potential buyers out of the market, or at least get them to question if they should wait instead of buying now.

    That said, a Vans build will, by all historical comparisons, be a great airplane. I’m sure it will be lycoming powered to achieve their standard of performance.

    The question that remains is what market are they going to target?
    Tandem, side by side, or 4 place?


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    The question that remains is what market are they going to target?
    Tandem, side by side, or 4 place?
    Likely all three with an entirely new family of high wing airplanes.
    N1PA
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  10. #10

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    My guess is it will be upscale in the biggish 4 seater size, as mentioned a C-185 clone but with sticks. RV crowd is not skinny poor people. And there will be a nosewheel version. All the PR photos will be the tailwheel version, all the kits ordered will be the nosewheel version.
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  11. #11
    aeroaddict's Avatar
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    My guess is that Van's will try to keep comommally as much as possible, and hence the plane will be a side by side, Lycoming powered, same wing (maybe longer) but upstairs not down stairs, -10 or -7 empennage, etc.....

    Exciting that there will be an established kit manufacture is the 'experimental bush plane' market.

  12. #12
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    It's a concept that they won't admit even fully exists on paper yet, let alone a flying machine with any details, like seating, or even number of seats. So far they are selling vaporware based on the reputation of their other kits. Personally, I like RVs and own a RV, but I won't even give this a second thought until they have something to show other than a vague, totally undefined promise that someday the will produce something. Nothing to get excited about in my opinion.

    -Cub Builder
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    Third party rumor for sure: Buddy stopped at the Rans tent last week. They told him that the S-21 is such a big hit that they are thinking of dropping the S-7.
    Vans knows what they are doing.
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  14. #14
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroaddict View Post
    My guess is that Van's will try to keep comommally as much as possible, and hence the plane will be a side by side, Lycoming powered, same wing (maybe longer) but upstairs not down stairs, -10 or -7 empennage, etc.....

    Exciting that there will be an established kit manufacture is the 'experimental bush plane' market.
    Yes, RANS is just an upstart, only in continuous business since 1983, and their planes can't really land off airport.

    My bet is VANS "bushplane" will cruise at 150 plus, and the only bush it will see will be places like Johnson Creek. I COULD BE WRONG, maybe it'll be some kinda optimized slow flyer/lander, but that's not where the interest of the company seems to be.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #15

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    2-place tandem, 2-place side by side, 4 place, 6 place? Doesn’t matter. They’ll find a niche. And Van’s customers enjoy seriously good Lycoming pricing. Personally the revival of the Cyclone (a true late model Skywagon clone) is much more interesting. An EXP Skywagon has been a dream of mine for many years.

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    stewartb curious as to what you know about the revival of the Cyclone kit. I am currently building an old kit and the build manual could use some serious help. Looks to me like an RV tells what part goes where, when and how. The cyclone manual just says here is your kit, have fun. Fun it is however, there is a lot of head scratching and liberties taken by the builder , welcome to experimental. Sorry for the drift.

  17. #17
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Randy Schlitter of RAN's leaked a drawing of the new RV15. I say they are figuring out people are tired of going fast and making low passes at pancake breakfasts and want an airplane to go to the really cool places.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is a joke of course.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercubrancher View Post
    stewartb curious as to what you know about the revival of the Cyclone kit. I am currently building an old kit and the build manual could use some serious help. Looks to me like an RV tells what part goes where, when and how. The cyclone manual just says here is your kit, have fun. Fun it is however, there is a lot of head scratching and liberties taken by the builder , welcome to experimental. Sorry for the drift.
    That sounds a lot like my Backcountry Rev 2 kit. Pile of sorta familiar parts, no guidance for how to put them together. Easier with a Cub than a Skywagon, though. I sent you a PM but for the others who may be following, Bushliner Aircraft or a closely related venture has purchased the Cyclone kit, or so I'm told by one of the Bushliner principals. I think it's early in the acquisition but Bushliner knows more about putting Cessnas together than any shop I know of so they should be a great fit for the Cyclone kit or whatever new name they market it under.
    https://bushliner.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaefeli View Post
    Third party rumor for sure: Buddy stopped at the Rans tent last week. They told him that the S-21 is such a big hit that they are thinking of dropping the S-7.
    As someone who flies a Cub but adores the S7, this rumor makes be unbelievably sad.
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  20. #20
    courierguy's Avatar
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    IF it, the 7, was officially discontinued, just like a certain other aircraft design I know of that was put out to pasture by it's original manufacturer (initials are SC) others will step in and serve the market. 4100 hrs in type and no plans to change, it pushes the buttons I need pushed, and besides, 75 to 85 mph is plenty fast enough!
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  21. #21
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    I had a good friend, who has unfortunately since passed away, that built 13 different airplanes. Most from plans, versus a kit. The last airplane that he was building was the cyclone. He said it was by far the most difficult airplane he had ever built. This is a man with a degree in mechanical engineering and with a phenomenal amount of experience doing metalworking and building airplanes.
    I think the cyclone has great potential, but I do think that somebody needs to do some serious work on the manual, parts fit, etc. from what I have heard.
    There are tons of 2 seat airplanes out there, both tandem and side-by-side. It just seems like that part of the market is pretty well saturated. Thus my earlier comment that I thought some thing that approached a Cessna 180 might fit the market. The Maule (certified so not really a competitor) and the Bearhawk both have their limitations.

    They have the potential to hit a home run here. The Murphy Moose had potential but unfortunately, both the company and the flight handling characteristics we’re significant detriments.

    it will be interesting to see what happens

    my opinion and all that

    Bill
    Very Blessed. "It's not an obsession, it's a passion"
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  22. #22
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Bearhawk Five, dressed for your mission, is a damn good Experimental 180.

    Full disclosure: Posting this from the Bearhawk Five right now.

    I Click image for larger version. 

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    Darn hard to try to photograph that back area from my seat.


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  23. #23

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    That ain’t a 180 substitute to this 25 year 180 owner!
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    I had a good friend, who has unfortunately since passed away, that built 13 different airplanes. Most from plans, versus a kit. The last airplane that he was building was the cyclone. He said it was by far the most difficult airplane he had ever built. This is a man with a degree in mechanical engineering and with a phenomenal amount of experience doing metalworking and building airplanes.
    I think the cyclone has great potential, but I do think that somebody needs to do some serious work on the manual, parts fit, etc. from what I have heard.
    There are tons of 2 seat airplanes out there, both tandem and side-by-side. It just seems like that part of the market is pretty well saturated. Thus my earlier comment that I thought some thing that approached a Cessna 180 might fit the market. The Maule (certified so not really a competitor) and the Bearhawk both have their limitations.

    They have the potential to hit a home run here. The Murphy Moose had potential but unfortunately, both the company and the flight handling characteristics we’re significant detriments.

    it will be interesting to see what happens

    my opinion and all that

    Bill
    A friend sold his 185 to build a very nice Moose. He’s never looked back. Had Barrett rebuild the engine. Had Whirl Wind make custom prop blades. That Moose is the best performing piston-powered float plane I’ve ever seen. Great airplane when properly built.

    I hope Kyle and the crew straighten out the Cyclone kit. It’s time has come. I hope it’s a raging success!
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  25. #25
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    That ain’t a 180 substitute to this 25 year 180 owner!
    That’s like saying your experimental cub “isn’t a replacement for a 25 year Supercub owner”, just without the exclamation mark.


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  26. #26

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    Very true, and a claim I never made. I never wanted a standard Supercub.

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    Not to hi-jack the thread, but what about the Murphy Yukon? Are there any flying? I always thought a Yukon would be more like a 180/185 than a Moose.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    .... Bushliner Aircraft or a closely related venture has purchased the Cyclone kit, or so I'm told by one of the Bushliner principals. I think it's early in the acquisition but Bushliner knows more about putting Cessnas together than any shop I know of so they should be a great fit for the Cyclone kit or whatever new name they market it under.
    https://bushliner.com/
    I admire what they're doing, but Bushliner seems to be ramrodded by a guy that's about 25 years old.
    He may be knowledgeable, but to say he knows more about putting Cessnas together than anyone else is a stretch IMHO.
    He does have a large online presence, where as many other (older) shops are low profile.
    Jim Hayton in western WA has been rebuilding 180/185's for many many years, as has Beegles in CO.
    And I'm sure there are a number of other shops who are quietly rebuilding skywagons also.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  29. #29
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I admire what they're doing, but Bushliner seems to be ramrodded by a guy that's about 25 years old.
    He may be knowledgeable, but to say he knows more about putting Cessnas together than anyone else is a stretch IMHO.
    He does have a large online presence, where as many other (older) shops are low profile.
    Jim Hayton in western WA has been rebuilding 180/185's for many many years, as has Beegles in CO.
    And I'm sure there are a number of other shops who are quietly rebuilding skywagons also.
    This is the team at Bushliner: https://bushliner.com/meet-the-team/ There does appear to be a variety of experiences among them. Just because one of them is "about 25 years old" he shouldn't be put down. In my past I've worked with others in that age range who were top notch aviation mechanics producing workmanship of the highest quality. Unless you personally know of some other issue with these folks, I say give them a chance. We need enthusiastic qualified young blood in this industry.
    N1PA
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    Ambitious youth needs to be celebrated. Competence is about the person, not their year of birth.
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  31. #31
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    .....I say give them a chance. We need enthusiastic qualified young blood in this industry.
    I agree. I'm not badmouthing them, just saying that they're not necessarily the leaders in their field (yet).
    They have (at least) one total rebuild project in the works now,
    but I don't know of any other airplanes which have come out of their shop after a total rebuild, yet --
    other than the owner's very nice 180hp C170B (which is for sale).
    But I'm hoping to see great things from them in the years to come.
    Last edited by hotrod180; 08-04-2021 at 09:29 AM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  32. #32

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    I was getting ready to order a bearhawk kit until van made the announcement, now it is wait and see.
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  33. #33
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuBob View Post
    I was getting ready to order a bearhawk kit until van made the announcement, now it is wait and see.
    I ordered a Bearhawk Companion (2 seat side by side) two days ago, October delivery. The RV-15 is likely 2 years from delivery. Everyone lives on a different timeframe
    Last edited by Utah-Jay; 08-19-2021 at 08:21 PM.

  34. #34
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuBob View Post
    I was getting ready to order a bearhawk kit until van made the announcement, now it is wait and see.
    And that’s exactly what Vans wanted you to do. Marketing 101, get the buyer off the market.

    I would have done the same thing if I was them.


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  35. #35
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah-Jay View Post
    I ordered a Bearhawk Companion (2 seat side by side) two days ago, October delivery. The RV-15 is likely 2 years from delivery. Everyone live on a different timeframe
    Now Jay you know you’re lucky it was still available. The other guy is now fuming because he pondered an extra day.
    Next slot is spring 2023.

    Pb


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  36. #36
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Ugh, he's crying in his whiskey now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Now Jay you know you’re lucky it was still available. The other guy is now fuming because he pondered an extra day.
    Next slot is spring 2023.

    Pb


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  37. #37
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Now Jay you know you’re lucky it was still available. The other guy is now fuming because he pondered an extra day.
    Next slot is spring 2023.

    Pb

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    Ugh, he's crying in his whiskey now.
    No doubt I lucked out. My wife told me today I got lucky to get the last one!

    I am aware and thankful

  38. #38
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    And that’s exactly what Vans wanted you to do. Marketing 101, get the buyer off the market.

    I would have done the same thing if I was them.


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    Very good point, Vans is a good and smart operation

  39. #39
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aflyer View Post
    For those of us who like to roll our own, looks like Van's Aircraft is serving up an all metal bush plane.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...5-in-the-works

    fun fun, John
    From the AOPA article:
    "Van’s officials confirmed July 26 that their next airplane will be made of metal like the kit airplanes that preceded it. But it will have a high wing and be “suitable” for backcountry flying at remote airstrips."

    An airplane that is <"suitable" for back country operations> isn't necessarily a bush plane.
    There used to be a guy on a couple different forums who did a lot back country type ops in his Mooney,
    apparently it was "suitable" but I wouldn't call a Mooney a bush plane.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  40. #40
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Sling has a new high wing that is fast and backcountry capable. Kitfox, Rans and Bearhawk are all seriously backed up on orders for planes that would/could be classified as STOL capable, that seems to be the market at the moment. Is there a big market for a high wing backcountry plane that can only land at Johnson Creek, Sulphur Creek and Indian Creek length runways? Because a Mooney CAN land in those places.

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