Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 125

Thread: Scrappy at OshKosh?

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Canyon, tx
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is there any video of it landing? Maybe I’ve missed it but looks like the landings have been edited out.

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Game changers. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	73E547CD-267A-4C9C-B1DE-D4C9F9319645.jpeg 
Views:	92 
Size:	136.2 KB 
ID:	57026Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C1C436D1-2E52-4A7C-B905-8924CA6CAE4D.jpeg 
Views:	90 
Size:	142.5 KB 
ID:	57027

  3. #43
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    666
    Post Thanks / Like
    This might come as a surprise but slats have been around for quite some time and in regular use on cub type aircraft for 20 years or more. Not exactly a "game changer"

    Good to see you plugging the Zlin Norden again. Is there any thread you haven't posted about the Norden in?
    Likes Farmboy, silflexer liked this post

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    6,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Slats have been around since about 1918. Google Handley Paige Aircraft for their history. Simultaneously developed in Germany but that guy didn’t get credit.
    Likes Brandsman liked this post

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yes, I’m well aware. But electric retractable slats haven’t been done on a light GA aircraft until the Norden and Scrappy and I think they’ll bring forth changes and improvements from other OEM designs moving forward.

    Electric retractable slats are definitely a game changer. Who wouldn’t want to change 12% of the wing area on the fly? Slats are a genius way of increasing wing area by chord alone which enables shorter wing spans that are more conducive to quicker roll rates and response, let alone the physical width reduction for getting into tight strips.

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,457
    Post Thanks / Like
    The double retractable slat is pretty cool. If you are looking for cutting edge I would say this wing is pretty much on top of the pile. The good thing is you can pull everything back in and get some speed back. Great work.
    DENNY
    Likes jetcat11, Brandsman liked this post

  7. #47

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like
    Helio Courier…
    Likes DENNY, ak49flyer liked this post

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by AKjurnees View Post
    Helio Courier…
    A legendary airplane and way ahead of its time, but electric retractable slats are better in my opinion.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	6DC4E3E8-6D0C-4FBF-8465-8ACF4ABB216E.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	68.5 KB 
ID:	57028  

  9. #49

    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    228
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not clear to me how electrically driven, pilot controlled, slats are inherently better than automatic slats. Of course, if they are electrically operated, it's not a huge challenge to make them automatic based on alpha. Perhaps partial auto extension for stall prevention and full extension pilot controlled is the way to go.

    My favorite STOL aircraft as a teen was the Westland Lysander.

  10. #50
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jetcat11 View Post
    A legendary airplane and way ahead of its time, but electric retractable slats are better in my opinion.
    Why do you believe electric retractable slats are better than automatic slats which open and close as needed when the AoA calls for them?
    N1PA

  11. #51

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    6,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Make mine passive. The wing knows better than I when it needs slats or when they can remain closed. Works like a charm. At least Scrappy couples the slats to the flaps so deployment comes in one familiar pilot input. I'm not sure that's the ideal but maybe the lesser of two evils when considering uncoupling them. But Scrappy's slats morph the wing considerably. That's very different than we mere mortals are familiar with.
    Likes DENNY, AKjurnees, brown bear, Gordon Misch liked this post

  12. #52

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,086
    Post Thanks / Like
    Still like the PC-6-B2H2


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  13. #53
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Fairbanks, AK.
    Posts
    2,961
    Post Thanks / Like
    Next will be a selectable Alpha that drives the wing configuration and tail trim.

    Gary

  14. #54

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Why do you believe electric retractable slats are better than automatic slats which open and close as needed when the AoA calls for them?
    There are a lot of reasons I can think of, but this photo of a CRJ 700 speed card does a great job of explaining why slats on demand can truly change your operating envelope and enhance safety in the backcountry.

    At 75,000 pounds you can see how impactful flaps 0 to flaps 1 is when talking about the minimum maneuvering speed and final approach speed. Flaps 0 to flaps 1 means the slats move out 20 degrees, while the flaps stay retracted. We have a resulting 16 knot reduction in minimum maneuvering speed and a 16 knot speed reduction for final approach speed. This is truly game changing!

    Electric slats allow you to place them far enough ahead, and below the leading edge of the wing to maximize their coefficient of lift increase on the airfoil. The Norden has a slight advantage over the Helio in this regard.

    In speaking again about the Norden, deploying the electric slats on final approach means you can approach at a slower airspeed by the physical increase in wing area but more importantly a flat AOA while doing so with a windscreen that was designed around this. Slower approach speeds with better visibility is a huge win for off airport operations. The slats also perfectly counter balance the forward pitching moment created by the massive double slotted flaps creating an impressive “umbrella” looking effect when everything is fully deployed. The beautiful part about this increase in wing area is increased margin above a maneuvering stall speed as well as preventing a stall spin scenario in a no go around situation.

    The reason I’m not a fan of the spring slats are because of their variability in operation. See this video here. https://youtu.be/tKCRuNYDOh4

    Can you imagine if an airliner’s various slat panels were bouncing in and out on takeoff and climb out or worse yet on landing? Those numbers are only valid with the slats in a fixed position. Your stall margin would not be dependable.

    Another reason for electric retractable slats is that you can configure them exactly how you’d like per flight conditions. The CRJ 700 uses 20 degree slats for takeoff and 25 degree slats for landing. If you found yourself in a gusty, crosswind condition a no slat takeoff may be desirable.

    The Norden’s slats are controlled via push buttons on the stick where aileron trim might be located. Pushing the right button in deploys them with a maximum deployment interval of around 3 seconds. This could become an issue when trying to trim on a go around but I personally love they are disconnected from the flaps.

    Some of the negatives are complexity in design and added weight, but I think those are more than made up in increased safety and enhanced operating envelope.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	93D8277C-32BE-4C8B-964A-2B5F130DFE5B.jpeg 
Views:	73 
Size:	103.5 KB 
ID:	57031
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FE8E5E86-BF4E-4C02-87BB-CD169AD552C8.jpeg 
Views:	89 
Size:	162.9 KB 
ID:	57032

  15. #55

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    6,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    How many hours do you have in your Norden now?
    Likes courierguy, silflexer liked this post

  16. #56
    brown bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    emporia ks
    Posts
    594
    Post Thanks / Like
    "The reason I’m not a fan of the spring slats"
    Jet cat , I am not sure what you mean by "spring slats "?
    As far as I know there are no springs on any Helio slats.
    Doug
    Likes ak49flyer, skywagon8a liked this post

  17. #57
    brown bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    emporia ks
    Posts
    594
    Post Thanks / Like
    "The wing knows better than I when it needs slats or when they can remain closed"
    Stewartb , I am with you on this .
    I have been flying my plane ,which has automatic slats, for over 20 years ., and for now I'll take slats that do their own thing .
    But if Mike lets me fly Scrappy for a 100 hours or so I might change my mind
    Doug

  18. #58

    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    228
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jetcat11 View Post
    Can you imagine if an airliner’s various slat panels were bouncing in and out on takeoff and climb out or worse yet on landing?
    Perhaps you are unaware that auto slat extension is implemented on several, perhaps many, airliners for stall protection. They don't bounce in and out.
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    Perhaps you are unaware that auto slat extension is implemented on several, perhaps many, airliners for stall protection. They don't bounce in and out.
    I did not know that, but the reason they don’t bounce in and out I would imagine is because they are still electrically deployed and not spring loaded like the Helio’s are.

    The wing does not know better which is why it’s such an advantage to deploy them in certain situations where they wouldn’t deploy otherwise.

  20. #60

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    204
    Post Thanks / Like
    Helio slats are not spring loaded- totally free to extend/retract on their own.
    Likes jetcat11 liked this post

  21. #61

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ak49flyer View Post
    Helio slats are not spring loaded- totally free to extend/retract on their own.
    When you retract them physically why don’t they stay in place on the ground then?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2AE3D990-4146-4674-8D32-C22A3D19D3CD.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	97.5 KB 
ID:	57033

  22. #62

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ak49flyer View Post
    Helio slats are not spring loaded- totally free to extend/retract on their own.
    You’re right, gravity is what pulls them down duh!

  23. #63
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Helio slats are on a kind of arched track where gravity pulls them out and down on the ground. That's why they don't stay retracted on the ground. Besides, if anything you want a spring pushing them out instead of pulling them in. Air pressure can retract them.

    Speaking directly about the Norden and Scrappy...Scrappy's slat and flap arrangement is a coupled system where both the slats and flaps were designed to compliment each other and reduce the pitching moment of the plane between high speed and low speed flight. The Norden, well it doesn't have slotted flaps and the leading edge slats are a simple single vane slat so no real new engineering there. The electric control is a secondary issue and a point of failure. If the electric control is such a ground breaking thing then why didn't Mike Patey make his slats independently controlled rather than slaved to the flaps?

    Personally I'd rather have the automatic slats. There's a few situations where you don't think you'll need the slats but then you crank too hard and stall the wing. Moose stall/spin is a classic example. Besides that, it's just another control in the cockpit of what is supposed to be a simple machine to fly. We're not flying big jets here, they're 2 seater piston planes.

    I'm just saying that comparing the level of engineering in Scrappy's flap/slat system to the simple slat with an electric motor in the Zlin Norden is a non-starter. They are not at all the same thing.
    Thanks 8GCBC, JeffP thanked for this post

  24. #64
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    3,873
    Post Thanks / Like
    There's a few situations where you don't think you'll need the slats but then you crank too hard and stall the wing. Moose stall/spin is a classic example.
    I agree with the rest of what you wrote, but for any configuration there is a loss of control boundary. Fly a certain configuration for a while and there will be a tendency to fly close to that boundary. Exceed it, and stuff happens. So it's not so much about equipment providing the safety margin, as the operator of that equipment.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
    Likes jetcat11 liked this post

  25. #65

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    Helio slats are on a kind of arched track where gravity pulls them out and down on the ground. That's why they don't stay retracted on the ground. Besides, if anything you want a spring pushing them out instead of pulling them in. Air pressure can retract them.

    Speaking directly about the Norden and Scrappy...Scrappy's slat and flap arrangement is a coupled system where both the slats and flaps were designed to compliment each other and reduce the pitching moment of the plane between high speed and low speed flight. The Norden, well it doesn't have slotted flaps and the leading edge slats are a simple single vane slat so no real new engineering there. The electric control is a secondary issue and a point of failure. If the electric control is such a ground breaking thing then why didn't Mike Patey make his slats independently controlled rather than slaved to the flaps?

    Personally I'd rather have the automatic slats. There's a few situations where you don't think you'll need the slats but then you crank too hard and stall the wing. Moose stall/spin is a classic example. Besides that, it's just another control in the cockpit of what is supposed to be a simple machine to fly. We're not flying big jets here, they're 2 seater piston planes.

    I'm just saying that comparing the level of engineering in Scrappy's flap/slat system to the simple slat with an electric motor in the Zlin Norden is a non-starter. They are not at all the same thing.
    Maybe you need to take a closer look at the Norden instead of being so eager to dismiss it. The Norden has double slotted flaps that account for about 70% of the trailing edge. Zlin could have engineered the slats and flaps to deploy congruently but the Norden doesn’t need it. It literally needs no pitch trim change in any configuration, slats out flaps up, slats in flaps out. A single slat is sufficient to counter balance the overall smaller flap area in comparison to Scrappy and keeps the airflow attached well enough in comparison to the extra cost and weight a double slat system would require. A perk of the double slat system is complete airflow attachment at insane AOA, yes.

    It’s my understanding that Mike needed the double slat to counter the massive forward pitching moment created by his massive double slotted flaps as well as move the center of lift while reducing pilot workload negating any negative pitch moments when both are deployed together.

    It’s one electric motor with both slats interconnected so if the motor fails the slats fail in the position they were in. I don’t see how this is vastly different than Scrappy’s implementation. Zlin has already tested the slats continuously for over 50 hours equating to over 20,000 cycles with zero issues whatsoever.

    I personally don’t see why this would be too difficult to control and be mindful of as the slats position will always be in your view from the cockpit but I understand what you’re saying.

    It’s not a non starter, you’re just not looking closely enough at the Norden.

    With that said, these two aircraft are very different. One weighs 850 pounds and the other 2500. They have very different wing planforms and needs based off their varying flap area pitching moments and center of lift shifts, but the Norden is a product the masses can buy and it’s semi affordable. Scrapppy is a one off with essentially an unlimited budget that would be hard to mass produce.

    The point is, Mike is a genius and his work has me in awe, but Zlin has also created something pretty special on the very light side of the STOL marketplace and should be applauded, not dismissed because they live on the other side of the pond.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	8EEAACDA-6B8C-4613-9D4A-1D1C47CE2328.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	47.2 KB 
ID:	57035
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0CFE6A1B-AC3B-454F-98A5-B12140E5EA3F.jpeg 
Views:	74 
Size:	66.5 KB 
ID:	57036Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D8AF4BCB-30A2-4E52-BCC0-6A805374D538.jpeg 
Views:	68 
Size:	84.2 KB 
ID:	57037
    Last edited by jetcat11; 08-04-2021 at 12:23 AM.
    Likes Gordon Misch liked this post

  26. #66
    brown bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    emporia ks
    Posts
    594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Jetcat ,You can reach out the window and grab hold of my slat in flight , mine are like those on the Helio, then slow down , when it comes out you can not hold it in and when out you can not pull it in when slow , speed up and they go in and you can not stop them . This is do to ,when slow and a higher AOA , the high pressure air under the wing going to the low pressure area above the wing by way of the slot that the slat makes when out . When on the ground and there is a 10 or 15 mph wind it's fun to have someone to push one in , they can but will be surprised at how hard they push and that it comes back out , fast !
    Awhile back Jerry Burr posted a picture of some yarn under a slated wing that shows this air flow .
    A slated wing only gets more lift by letting the wing fly at a higher AOA without stalling . As far as I can tell they do nothing at , as you say , "flatter AOA"
    So I guess saying the pilot has no control is wrong because its all about AOA and that is for sure pilot controllable .
    I wonder if Scrappy's double slatted wing is acting like both a slat and a Kruger flap ?? I'll know more after Mike drops it off at the Wilson world HQ's for my blessing . Can someone tell me what Scrappys wing span is ? My hangar door is only 40 ft .

  27. #67
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Jetcat,
    This is an example of a high performance airplane with automatic slats like the Helio. Remember, the primary purpose of the slats is to help in keeping the airflow attached to the trailing edge of the wing at high angles of attack. Thus reducing the stall speed of the wing. Airplanes like the F-86 are involved in maneuvers which take them in and out of high angle of attack situations on a moments notice. The last thing a pilot ought to be doing is selecting slats out or not.



    As Mike stated, he wanted the center of lift to remain in one location during flap deployment. Since flap deployment moves the center of lift aft and the slats move the center of lift forward, he joined the two to enable a zero trim change situation. What he has built ought to be referred to as a high lift system rather than slats or flaps.

    Are the flaps and slats interconnected on your Norden or independently operated?
    N1PA
    Thanks 8GCBC thanked for this post
    Likes 8GCBC liked this post

  28. #68
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    21,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have heard several stories of electric flaps on Cessnas getting stuck and sometimes not at an opportune time.

    Maybe we will start seeing this Norden at all the get togethers like Carbon Cubs. Or maybe Cub Crafters should take a look, might be the next big thing to halp them upsell to a newer model.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Likes C130jake liked this post

  29. #69

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Jetcat,
    This is an example of a high performance airplane with automatic slats like the Helio. Remember, the primary purpose of the slats is to help in keeping the airflow attached to the trailing edge of the wing at high angles of attack. Thus reducing the stall speed of the wing. Airplanes like the F-86 are involved in maneuvers which take them in and out of high angle of attack situations on a moments notice. The last thing a pilot ought to be doing is selecting slats out or not.



    As Mike stated, he wanted the center of lift to remain in one location during flap deployment. Since flap deployment moves the center of lift aft and the slats move the center of lift forward, he joined the two to enable a zero trim change situation. What he has built ought to be referred to as a high lift system rather than slats or flaps.

    Are the flaps and slats interconnected on your Norden or independently operated?
    That is very cool, I had no idea the F-86 had automatic slats! Yes, you’re exactly right but the center of lift changes more dramatically with Scrappy based off the slats deploying irrespective of the flaps or vice versa.

    The Norden’s pitch changes are almost negligible which doesn’t require them to be interlinked together. I addressed that earlier in a post above. I disagree and think there’s nothing wrong with a pilot manipulating slats in flight but I understand what you’re saying.

    How can you say what Mike has created is a high lift system vs the Norden’s slats or flaps. You’re kidding right? If the Norden isn’t a high lift system I don’t know what is. That 29’ wing is squeezing every last ounce of lift it possibly can and dramatically increasing the coefficient of lift with leading edge slats, double slotted flaps, and drooped tips. Again, placement of the slats is crucial and the Norden has nailed it.

    I feel like I’m just repeating myself here but you can’t watch these videos and say this isn’t a game changing high lift system that renders a Carbon Cub’s wing much inferior. But please, watch the videos this time.

    Start at 1:58 here. https://fb.watch/7aiBB4JF4E/

    Start at 4:50 here. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec
    Last edited by jetcat11; 08-04-2021 at 08:51 AM.

  30. #70

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Canyon, tx
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Jetcat11, I’m slow to pick things up. Do you own a Norden or are waiting on delivery or do you broker them? Where are you located?

    Many of us here are hard headed and need to see it’s performance in person and against similar cub style planes. The two previous generation slated Zlins that I’ve seen in person were underwhelming to watch against similar competition. Could have been the plane, could have been the pilots. There is or was one in AK, however, that performed well at Valdez.

    Here’s the point…..there are now more STOL and or backcountry competitions around the US than ever and there’s no excuse to not bring one out. Enter the Norden against the Rans, Highlanders and Carbon Cubs of the world. Airline the test pilot over or put someone in it that will show its true capabilities. Until that’s done, everyone here will just keep trying to poke holes in it.
    Last edited by KevinJ; 08-04-2021 at 11:55 AM.
    Likes Crash, Jr., Brandsman, Herc liked this post

  31. #71

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Jetcat11, I’m slow to pick things up. Do you own a Norden or are waiting on delivery or do you broker them? Where are you located?

    Many of us here are hard headed and need see it’s performance in person and against similar cub style planes. The two previous generation slated Zlins that I’ve seen in person were underwhelming to watch against similar competition. Could have been the plane, could have been the pilots. There is or was one in AK, however, that performed well at Valdez.

    Here’s the point…..there are now more STOL and or backcountry competitions around the US than there ever has been before and there’s no excuse to not bring one out. Enter the Norden against the Rans, Highlanders and Carbon Cubs of the world. Airline the test pilot over or put someone in it that will show its true capabilities. Until that’s done, everyone here will just keep trying to poke holes in it.
    I’m simply a huge fan of the airplane, located in Dallas. Yes, that must have been Gary Green at Valdez with the 115HP Shock Cub. He had the shortest landing of the event in 2019 at 39’. His Norden is actually the first coming soon to the US as the grey and orange color scheme linked above.

    I completely agree with you. The good thing is that it’s coming and there is an EPeX300Ti Norden that should be hard to beat in the right hands.

    With that said, I do feel as though this video showcases it’s operating envelope and what it’s able to do in the right hands on 140HP. But I personally don’t think a STOL aircraft has to compete to show it’s worthy of consideration, but that’s beside the point. We’ll see when it actually gets here, but I’ve clearly already made up my mind as I’ve seen and heard enough.

    https://youtu.be/S-pLdKLJZuI

  32. #72

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Buena Vista, CO
    Posts
    175
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Norden looks awesome.

    However, I blocked jetcatt11 long ago due to non-stop paid advertisement he/she/it blasts out on every available forum. It is too much, and too obvious.
    Likes stewartb, jetcat11, Crash, Jr., jprax, Farmboy and 1 others liked this post

  33. #73

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    6,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Which slats have you flown yourself? I’m very limited to my own plane’s slats and several hours as passenger in a few Helios. Both are very different from airliners who use pilot controlled slats and procedures and for a bush plane I’ll take Helio or Mackey slats every time, because bush flying doesn’t always lend itself to procedures. If I need to power up and do a 180° turn to escape a canyon or a cloud I don’t need to flip a switch to gain the safety margin my slats provide. They’re always there for me. I get the idea that you aren’t very familiar with flying slats or flying real backcountry conditions so trying to reason is wasted words. Brochures and videos don’t impress me nearly as much as what I see with my own eyes and feel with my own hands. My plane carries a big load at silly slow speeds with a safety margin I continue to appreciate.

    Do you have any PIC experience in slat airplanes? Any passenger experience with a qualified pilot of a slat-equipped plane like a Helio?
    Thanks JeffP thanked for this post
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  34. #74

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Which slats have you flown yourself? I’m very limited to my own plane’s slats and several hours as passenger in a few Helios. Both are very different from airliners who use pilot controlled slats and procedures and for a bush plane I’ll take Helio or Mackey slats every time, because bush flying doesn’t always lend itself to procedures. If I need to power up and do a 180° turn to escape a canyon or a cloud I don’t need to flip a switch to gain the safety margin my slats provide. They’re always there for me. I get the idea that you aren’t very familiar with flying slats or flying real backcountry conditions so trying to reason is wasted words. Brochures and videos don’t impress me nearly as much as what I see with my own eyes and feel with my own hands. My plane carries a big load at silly slow speeds with a safety margin I continue to appreciate.

    Do you have any PIC experience in slat airplanes? Any passenger experience with a qualified pilot of a slat-equipped plane like a Helio?
    Block me all you want Colorado Cub, I literally don’t care. I’m so tired of telling people I don’t work for Zlin or SportAir. I blast the airplane on every outlet I can because it takes three times before y’all ACTUALLY look at the airplane. My entire objective in this is to raise awareness of another potential aircraft one might purchase and hopefully elicit other OEM’s to try and bring a wing like this in the future.

    My slat experience is every time I go to work flying the CRJ 700 and I’ve flown the Shock Cub. Again, how hard is it to be conscious of where the slats are when they’re in plain sight all of the time? Most of the time when you’re slowing the slats will be fully extended anyways so if you need to power up and do a 180 degree turn they’re already there for you.

    Steve, if the electric motor fails both slats being interconnected fail in the position they were in. If they fail fully deployed it’s not near as large of an issue if your flaps were to fail fully deployed while trying to climb with rising terrain nearby as you can still bring the flaps all the way up and remove all of that drag and still climb effectively with the drag penalty created by the slats alone.

  35. #75
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado-Cub View Post
    The Norden looks awesome.

    However, I blocked jetcatt11 long ago due to non-stop paid advertisement he/she/it blasts out on every available forum. It is too much, and too obvious.
    100% with you on that one. Kinda gets old seeing every topic derailed into talk about the Norden.

    If the airplane is worth looking at, people will look at it. From what I've seen the planes that are most heavily marketed are not always the best.
    Thanks 8GCBC thanked for this post

  36. #76

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    6,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Especially a thread about Mike Patey’s true innovations. Let’s dismiss the noise and focus on the topic.
    Thanks 8GCBC thanked for this post
    Likes Crash, Jr., OLDCROWE, 39-J3, Colorado-Cub liked this post

  37. #77
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    666
    Post Thanks / Like
    To get the discussion back on track I'll say this about Scrappy: It's just too much stuff going on to be able to trickle down.

    Now I know everyone wants the double slats and double slotted flaps and all that mess in the wing of their plane but how is it going to fit into the wing of a cub? Even say a backcountry cub with a larger wing and higher weight you're still adding a lot of parts to the plane. I would hazard a guess that even changing the stamped aluminum ribs for the CNC milled ribs would double the weight of the wing and then you're talking about adding the linkages and slats themselves and it would be easily 150lbs added to the plane. At what point would that wing configuration make up for its own added weight?
    Thanks 8GCBC thanked for this post
    Likes ak49flyer, AKjurnees liked this post

  38. #78

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    6,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Advances in aviation have to start somewhere. Skup reminded me yesterday that he mocked up a double slat on my wings during assembly and asked Why Not? I had forgotten all about that.
    Likes DENNY liked this post

  39. #79
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jetcat11 View Post
    How can you say what Mike has created is a high lift system vs the Norden’s slats or flaps. You’re kidding right? If the Norden isn’t a high lift system I don’t know what is.
    You did not understand my meaning. Slats do one thing to the airflow and flaps do another, independently of each other. Mike's slats and flaps are bussed together to act as one unit. They can not be operated independently of each other. Thus I'm labeling them as a high lift system.
    N1PA
    Thanks 8GCBC thanked for this post
    Likes FdxLou liked this post

  40. #80

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    You did not understand my meaning. Slats do one thing to the airflow and flaps do another, independently of each other. Mike's slats and flaps are bussed together to act as one unit. They can not be operated independently of each other. Thus I'm labeling them as a high lift system.
    My bad. I personally would prefer to have them operate independent of each other but in Scrappy’s case it’s ideal.

Similar Threads

  1. You won't see this at Oshkosh
    By CharlieN in forum Video Vault
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-23-2018, 11:47 AM
  2. On your way to Oshkosh?
    By highflyer in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-08-2017, 04:15 PM
  3. Oshkosh
    By Greg Smith in forum Lighter than Air - Flying Humor
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-04-2004, 12:41 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •