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Thread: Skis and insurance

  1. #1

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    Skis and insurance

    Had a bit of a shock today and was wondering if this was normal. I was up for renewal on my insurance policy and BWI found me an underwriter that was nearly $1,000 under last yearís cost. I have passed 500 hours in the past year so had hoped for a modest reduction, but was really surprised by the quoted rate. But - the big problem was that the policy was for wheels only. I donít do much ski flying, but I really enjoy it and donít want to give it up. Anyhow, BWI asked for an updated quote with skis as an option, and the overall quote almost doubled, adding almost 2k to the price. Yow!

    My previous two years of insurance through BWI included skis - it wasnít an add-on. Anyhow, now Iím looking at going through Avemco, as their previous high price is looking pretty reasonable.

    Really, my question is how much risk is there in ski flying as opposed to wheel flying in the backcountry? Is the insurance risk really that much greater on skis? Anecdotally, I know of far more bent airplanes over the last several years on wheels than on skis, but Iím not sure if thatís true on a per-hour basis. Perhaps what hurt me is that I have relatively few ski hours, but Avemco and previous underwriters through BWI never asked for that info.

    Just curious, really.

  2. #2

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    Avemco has no off-airport restrictions and views skis the same as tires. At least they always have for me.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Avemco has no off-airport restrictions and views skis the same as tires. At least they always have for me.
    Right, and that was also my experience with BWI up until this year. The exception was just a single underwriter. Just wondering whether the insurance risk really is greater for ski operations.

  4. #4
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    AIG has a no ski clause. They also donít let you add floats for a few months anymore


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    scubber's Avatar
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    Was talking w/BWI rep as the NO Ski just email came down We were taking about confirmation of ski coverage. She opened it and advised that off airport would still be covered, but no Skis. Global was the underwriter and had been for the past 4 years.

  6. #6
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    will be a shame when someone has a problem on skis, and puts the tires on before calling the insurance company
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  7. #7
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    will be a shame when someone has a problem on skis, and puts the tires on before calling the insurance company
    And another insurance fraud case is opened...

    Spend the extra and get the coverage. One mistake and the cost will be way more than the extra insurance.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    AIG has a no ski clause. They also donít let you add floats for a few months anymore


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    Yep, it was USAIG that nearly doubled the rate for adding skis. My previous underwriter was USSIC, and their rates went up $900 since last year. SoÖguess Iím jumping ship to Avemco. Glad I took the advice Iíve read elsewhere on here to get quotes from multiple sources.

  9. #9
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Don't know much about insurance, but as a ski pilot I can see your underwriter's point. Maybe he's a ski pilot also, that would explain it.

  10. #10
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Yep, it was USAIG that nearly doubled the rate for adding skis. My previous underwriter was USSIC, and their rates went up $900 since last year. SoÖguess Iím jumping ship to Avemco. Glad I took the advice Iíve read elsewhere on here to get quotes from multiple sources.
    Avemco wonít cover if they donít like who the plane is registered to. LLc or if they think itís reg to a commercial company. The insurance companies arenít letting you add floats in the middle of the year for a few months. They cancel the policy and start a new one with a much higher rate for the entire year.


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  11. #11

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    BWI was 1300 more for me than Avemco ÖÖand they didnít talk skis to me either.
    They also wanted my updated times for the last month. My response was 15026 was probably the breaking point on annual cost vs 14996 TT.

  12. #12

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    It may not be the low price company, but it is pretty simple. Skis/wheels same price, above the arctic circle same price, and floats by the month. AVEMCO!
    DENNY
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  13. #13
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    It may not be the low price company, but it is pretty simple. Skis/wheels same price, above the arctic circle same price, and floats by the month. AVEMCO!
    DENNY
    I have to re register my airplane to something that doesnít sound like a commercial operation.


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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    It may not be the low price company, but it is pretty simple. Skis/wheels same price, above the arctic circle same price, and floats by the month. AVEMCO!
    DENNY
    Venturing off topic a fair amount....a few years ago, when I approached AVEMCO, they cited my lumber rack attachment tabs as indicative of a guiding operation (???) and wouldn't offer a recreational use policy. Has anyone had that sort of experience with AVEMCO recently? Happy with my current insurer / underwriter, but would like the AVEMCO option for the next renewal.
    Back In Alaska

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    How did they know it had tabs? They've never looked at my planes, asked for photos, or asked for any modifications lists.

  16. #16
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Nothing but very positive experiences with AVEMCO for many years. Great company.

    MTV

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    How did they know it had tabs? They've never looked at my planes, asked for photos, or asked for any modifications lists.
    Same. I only submitted the N number, date built, and hull value. They didn't ask about mods at all.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Same. I only submitted the N number, date built, and hull value. They didn't ask about mods at all.
    Again...a few years ago, but when I applied (and it may have been driven by the requested hull value, even though that value wasn't the amount of the recent rebuild), they asked for all modifications and (IIRC) if such were STC'd or FA'd. Maybe next year when I inquire, I'll be able to ask for a lower hull value or otherwise avoid the "mods" question, but it came up in my previous application.
    Back In Alaska

  19. #19
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I went to avemco for a quote and they said the registered owner sounded like a commercial operation and they wouldnít cover it until the registration was changed. I told them the airplane isnít used for commercial ops and they said change the registered name and call us back.


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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I went to avemco for a quote and they said the registered owner sounded like a commercial operation and they wouldnít cover it until the registration was changed. I told them the airplane isnít used for commercial ops and they said change the registered name and call us back.


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    Did a little quick review of notes: the above experience sounds like mine: it was 2011 when I last applied ( !!) but the communication was along the lines of "that could mean you're a guide" "I'm not a guide and I've already signed that it's only recreational use" "That could mean you're a guide" "Do I need to take the tabs off?" "That would probably mean you're not a guide".....it was not antagonistic or confrontational but it seemed like Avemco got "guide" in mind and couldn't shake it.

    Oh well....I'll try again next summer....
    Back In Alaska

  21. #21

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    It sounds like your declared value got their attention. When I insured my -12 a couple of years before yours they never batted an eye, but my value reflected market value, not my actual cost. Declared value is an interesting topic.
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  22. #22
    Scooter7779h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It sounds like your declared value got their attention. When I insured my -12 a couple of years before yours they never batted an eye, but my value reflected market value, not my actual cost. Declared value is an interesting topic.
    After I got your plane I insured hull for more. I was questioned and sent a detailed plane description and photos and it was approved. I renew using same hull value even though Iíve put 900 hours on it since then. Having gone through a settlement of my other -12 owned for 34 years and insured most of those years with AVEMCO they just wrote the check of declared hull value less the $2,500 deductible. I was told they never haggle about market value at a total loss settlement. Itís simply policy value less deductible. Sets AVEMCO apart from others. Itís in plain language in the policy.


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