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Thread: Well, its started, the experiment

  1. #1

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    Well, its started, the experiment

    Hello supercub.org

    This is my first experimental build, was saving for a new fuselage when, well a used one came available. I thought well lets do this, I like a good challenge. So I got the fuselage, It appeared to be in good shape, with no major issues. After a quick inspection, off it went to get sand blasted. A few things showed up that I was already prepared for, D channels rusted and right side lower longeron has what looks like small pitting.

    Now the real question, is it straight? I was super lucky in the fact that I was able to borrow a jig and my buddy has space at his house for me to work on it. So I headed out to pick the jig up and on the way back through with the help of a friend placed the fuselage in the jig. To my surprise stuff started to line up. Motor mount holes in, lower gear fittings in, left side wing fittings in, then well I would like to say the right side wing fittings lined up but they didn't, off by 3/16, crap. Then we checked the tail, a little high and long(appears the tail has been replaced before) but it has this slight turn to the right. Overall not bad.

    Goal now is to make this fuselage fit, convert over to L21 since the D channels need removed, replace lower longerons from front to rear and add the necessary mods(its just time right lol).

    I do have to say I appreciate this sight as there is a load of info(long time looker before I joined up).

    Overall I think I will enjoy this process more as I will get a better understanding as to what goes into fixing a fuselage.
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  2. #2

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    Curious. it looks like some rather course grit used to blast it.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    Curious. it looks like some rather course grit used to blast it.
    Yeah I’m unsure as to what material was used to blast it. Looks great though. Advance Powdercoating in Wasilla alaska did it
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  4. #4
    stewartb's Avatar
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    You couldn’t dream of a better location to build a Cub. Enjoy it!
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    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Looks fun. Measure the jig before you get too carried away. Never hurts to check.

    Is that a Piper fuselage or originally an experimental?


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    Looks fun. Measure the jig before you get too carried away. Never hurts to check.

    Is that a Piper fuselage or originally an experimental?


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    it’s a piper that I’m going experimental with,

  7. #7

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    I have a question that I’m hoping someone may be able to help with. The lower longerons appear to have a upward bow in them. When putting a straight edge on the bottom you can tell. The previous owner had the tail replaced and I’m wondering how or what to cut to make everything straight again. Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8

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    Oh I do plan on replacing the lower longerons,

  9. #9
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Pretty common for the tail to bow upwards over time. Since you're replacing lower longerons I would start with cutting out the sections you plan on replacing and seeing if the tail can be persuaded to sit in the jig right. The longerons are primarily responsible for that bow.
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  10. #10

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    Be careful with angles and dangles when you are replacing tubing. Before you do more then tack the tubing where you want it stick the jackscrew and stabilizer in. Level the fuselage and jig. Then measure you tail angles. Check against firewall and wing angles. That upper longerons looks like it is sway back also to me but could just be the picture. DENNY

  11. #11
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Denny's right, check everything before cutting. The upper longeron is definitely bent right at where the stabilizer support bracket is. Take all the stringers and vertical fin off and start by figuring out where the longerons are no longer straight and going from there. Make sure you have drawings on hand and know where the tubes are supposed to be pointed. You can have a fuselage that fits in a jig but is still all crooked in between the gear fittings and tail post.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    Denny's right, check everything before cutting. The upper longeron is definitely bent right at where the stabilizer support bracket is. Take all the stringers and vertical fin off and start by figuring out where the longerons are no longer straight and going from there. Make sure you have drawings on hand and know where the tubes are supposed to be pointed. You can have a fuselage that fits in a jig but is still all crooked in between the gear fittings and tail post.
    Thanks,

    Yes i have the drawings and did some quick measurements last night, the things i measured actually measured right but will continue to mess with it.

    Thanks agian,
    joe
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by chugach3dcomp View Post
    measured right but will continue to mess with it.

    I've heard of folks who won't take "no" for an answer, but never someone who won't take "yes" for an answer!
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  14. #14
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The longerons are being held in place by the diagonals. The diagonals at the bottom of the tail post should terminate at the bottom longerons not at the tail post like yours are. The top longerons have a very distinct bow ahead of the rear stabilizer fitting. I would start working forward and see what lies ahead of there. Easiest solution might be to use a fuselage tail repair section, cut the old off and sice the new one in.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Depending on what’s planned for wing mods? Now would be the time to extend the length and/or make provisions for electric trim.

  16. #16
    stewartb's Avatar
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    If you’re interested in a cabin-aft replacement…..
    https://alaskaslist.com/-3/posts/10_..._Airframe.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    If you’re interested in a cabin-aft replacement…..
    https://alaskaslist.com/-3/posts/10_..._Airframe.html
    thanks for this, I tried contacting them the other day but no answer

  18. #18

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    The longerons are being held in place by the diagonals. The diagonals at the bottom of the tail post should terminate at the bottom longerons not at the tail post like yours are. The top longerons have a very distinct bow ahead of the rear stabilizer fitting. I would start working forward and see what lies ahead of there. Easiest solution might be to use a fuselage tail repair section, cut the old off and sice the new one in.
    Good morning Steve, thanks for the reply. I am unsure as to what your describing. I took a picture for reference of a known good fuselage and checked the diagonals agianst that. It seems as if there in the same location?? I left my schematics at the house last night so i was unable to get exact measurements.

    thanks again,

  19. #19
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chugach3dcomp View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Good morning Steve, thanks for the reply. I am unsure as to what your describing. I took a picture for reference of a known good fuselage and checked the diagonals agianst that. It seems as if there in the same location?? I left my schematics at the house last night so i was unable to get exact measurements.

    thanks again,
    In the drawing, the diagonal touches the lower longeron and is welded to it.

    Your diagonal looks like it is approximately an inch higher. So it will tend to twist the tailpost forward, bend the lower longeron downward, if the tail wheel hits hard.

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    I remember some discussion about this with some of the after market fuselages.
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  20. #20

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    thanks for all the replies!!! due to the condition of the lower/upper longerons just decided it would be quicker to order a complete tail section from airframes. Airframes said i should have it in about 6weeks, so hopefully ill have some more updates on this project.

  21. #21

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    Excelent plan. I have seen what it takes to splice repair longhorns that had linseed oil in them and it is a major pain in the butt. DENNY

  22. #22

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    Well I finally received the tail section so it was out with the old and in with the new.

    now that that’s completed, it’s on to the lower baggage. My question is, can I just make my own large baggage door style or does the tubing have to be placed in a certian area? (this is an experimental build)Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by chugach3dcomp; 10-12-2021 at 01:08 PM.

  23. #23
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Make you own as big as the tube compartments allow. My door is top hinged and I wish it was hinged on the forward vertical edge instead so it'd blow closed in flight. A neighbor waved me off a takeoff last summer because the door was open. That wouldn't have ended well.
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  24. #24
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chugach3dcomp View Post
    Well I finally received the tail section so it was out with the old and in with the new.

    now that thatís completed, itís on to the lower baggage. My question is, can I just make my own large baggage door style or does the tubing have to be placed in a certian area? (this is an experimental build)Click image for larger version. 

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    I would buy the airframes extra large baggage door system.. It dog-legs one tube to make the door even larger than what you can do with the standard tubing.. Its $295 so its worth it in my mind to give them the business even though it is experimental.

    Brian.

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    My Baggage door is hinged at the top. It is hard to seal up from rain. Also it looks closed even when not secure. Put the hinge on the bottom. Easy to seal from rain on the top and it will hang open so easy to spot when you get in. As far as door size Airframes has a lip, drop that bottom tube down so you have no lip when sliding heavy stuff in and out. DENNY
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    My Baggage door is hinged at the top. It is hard to seal up from rain. Also it looks closed even when not secure. Put the hinge on the bottom. Easy to seal from rain on the top and it will hang open so easy to spot when you get in. As far as door size Airframes has a lip, drop that bottom tube down so you have no lip when sliding heavy stuff in and out. DENNY

    thanks Denny, never gave any thought about the lip, thats good info to know

  27. #27
    stewartb's Avatar
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    This is the best Cub and Maule door seal I've found. No leaks. I keep it in stock at the shop and in the hangar. https://content.assaabloyusa.com/doc/AADSS1052261&.pdf
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    Someone at Atlee's told me Butch Cavanaugh who owns the STC originally intended it without the lip but thats not how Airframes/others have been installing it. Randy at Carbon concepts told me he has at least 3 different patterns for these doors based on the height of the lip. The layout of the tubes is open to interpretation a little bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WayneK49 View Post
    Someone at Atlee's told me Butch Cavanaugh who owns the STC originally intended it without the lip but thats not how Airframes/others have been installing it. Randy at Carbon concepts told me he has at least 3 different patterns for these doors based on the height of the lip. The layout of the tubes is open to interpretation a little bit.

    I think Im questioning the placement of the tubes because if i put them in the wrong location, would it cause a structural concern. Seems as though it should not

  30. #30

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    Would anyone here know if there is a tool for bending the u channel for the gingerbread and overhead turtle deck?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chugach3dcomp View Post
    Would anyone here know if there is a tool for bending the u channel for the gingerbread and overhead turtle deck?
    The turtle deck channels are straight with angles, right? I'd take a piece of channel, cut a notch at the bend corners and then bent them to the proper angle and tack welded them.

    A few places I just welded shorter pieces together.

    For the channel on the cockpit top, I made a very homely channel bender. This post toward the bottom shows it. https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...l=1#post808766

    I really should have used three pulleys, but only had two at the time. The third point is a bushing over a bolt. But it worked for the gentle bends involved.

    Others have done much nicer ones. Basically three pulleys set so that the channel passes through them with a bit of tension to stretch the material.

    As for the bottom channels, I've seen them fluted. Others might have better ideas.
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  32. #32
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    I made a plywood form to match the inner ribs, then hammer-formed the channels. Fine tuned with the wings in place and straight edge between inner ribs and over the fuselage, then tacked the formers into place. It was tedious, but worked fine.
    Gordon

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  33. #33

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    Well works been busy but finally got around to making a prototype for a u channel bender. 3d printed it now just need to give it a try!!!Click image for larger version. 

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  34. #34
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chugach3dcomp View Post
    Well works been busy but finally got around to making a prototype for a u channel bender. 3d printed it now just need to give it a try!!!Click image for larger version. 

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    That is pretty cool. I realize now I'm in the tool-maker stone age.

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    I can not really see in that image, are your wheels male & female. The ones I have built and work with all have some overlap between one set of M & F to support the flange to reduce the chance of buckling. I also do not see any adjustment for setting the radius you are working to achieve?
    Regards, Charlie
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    the handle on the right side turns and brings the wheel in or out.

    the two outer wheels are set to the outer diameter of the u Chanel and the middle wheel is set to the inner diameter. Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    I can not really see in that image, are your wheels male & female. The ones I have built and work with all have some overlap between one set of M & F to support the flange to reduce the chance of buckling. I also do not see any adjustment for setting the radius you are working to achieve?

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  38. #38
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Nice, here is mine.
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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    thats awesome, do you think it’s better to have the center wheel as the movement wheel. I may have to redesign mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Nice, here is mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chugach3dcomp View Post
    thats awesome, do you think itís better to have the center wheel as the movement wheel. I may have to redesign mine.
    Looks to me like the screw is push only and moves a carriage holding the two outer wheels. I've been wrong before though!

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