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Black airplane?

D

dwm

Registered User
I have been trying to find information about the pros and cons of painting a Supercub all black (or mostly black), and I did not find almost anything. Is there any significant disadvantage over the other colors? (beside the difficulty of finding it in case of an accident) like the longevity of the paint and the fabric, if it requires more maintenance, stretching of the fabric, fading of the paint, etc.
The place where the airplane will be located has an average anual temperature of 58F with moderately (and short) hot summers with clear skies (in summer during the day is around 75F/80F and very occasionally -and for one day- could reach 95F). It's gonna be kept in a hangar. We are using PolyFiber to cover it.
About the paint: Matte or gloss? All painted with Ranthane (polyurethane) or Ranthane for the top coat and Poly-Tone for the belly and wings like the CubCrafters?.
Thanks in advance for your help.
DWM
 
Sunlight is the biggest issue, if stored outdoors simply covering it will do to reduce solar gain.
Today's coverings are bonded on, granted their activation temps are technically above most environmental sunlight conditions I would not want to learn the true limits on my own plane, which like my previous ones will be outdoors all it's life.
 
Black will get very hot in the sun; that is a given. The tapes can have an issue on black surfaces. With Stewart Systems, like most systems, the tapes on the ribs and other long, streight are not shrunk when applied. Black aircraft can get so hot that regular finishing tapes can shrink in the sun, causing them to pull away from the surface if not bonded well. To avoid that issue on a black plane, use preshrunk tapes on the surfaces that will receive the most heat exposure along the top of the wing and the fuselage.
Marty57
 
I HATE BLACK AIRCRAFT!

Sorry for shouting. We have a fleet of black Cessnas and Cherokees, and three or four black helicopters based at MYF. When you are above them they disappear. I mean, you cannot see them!

Ditto with olive drab. I am helping recover a Taylorcraft L-2, and the condition attached to my help is the aircraft remain Cub Yellow until I croak or am no longer flying.

I followed a 172 in two weeks ago. Tower said spacing was good, but I lost sight of her when she was on short final. Spacing worked, but it closed up pretty fast. Glad I had the tower helping.

Did I say I hate black aircraft?
 
Marty57 said:
Black will get very hot in the sun; that is a given. The tapes can have an issue on black surfaces. With Stewart Systems, like most systems, the tapes on the ribs and other long, streight are not shrunk when applied. Black aircraft can get so hot that regular finishing tapes can shrink in the sun, causing them to pull away from the surface if not bonded well. To avoid that issue on a black plane, use preshrunk tapes on the surfaces that will receive the most heat exposure along the top of the wing and the fuselage.
Marty57
Click to expand...

The pre-shrunk tapes are the same Polyfiber tapes but pre heated before applying them or are different tapes? If are the same, how do you pre-shrink them (at which temperature)?


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dwm said:
I have been trying to find information about the pros and cons of painting a Supercub all black (or mostly black)
Click to expand...

DWM;

My experience has been different than others who've replied here. Every black airplane I've ever seen in flight has been super easy to see - much more so than white airplanes. (note I dislike white airplanes because they seem to disappear - in my experience)

Airplane color is one of my pet peeves so please forgive me, but we all paint aircraft to be pleasing to look at, rather than easy to see. I'd much rather fly an ugly airplane that can be seen easily than a pretty one in which I'm going to get run over because it blends in. I've read articles claiming that the easiest colors to see in the sky are International Safety Orange and International Safety Yellow.

That being said, black on a fabric airplane is a bold choice because of the challenges presented by the color to the underlying fabric. I wouldn't not try it, but I would monitor the end result carefully.
 
bob turner said:
I HATE BLACK AIRCRAFT!

Sorry for shouting. We have a fleet of black Cessnas and Cherokees, and three or four black helicopters based at MYF. When you are above them they disappear. I mean, you cannot see them!

Ditto with olive drab. I am helping recover a Taylorcraft L-2, and the condition attached to my help is the aircraft remain Cub Yellow until I croak or am no longer flying.

I followed a 172 in two weeks ago. Tower said spacing was good, but I lost sight of her when she was on short final. Spacing worked, but it closed up pretty fast. Glad I had the tower helping.

Did I say I hate black aircraft?
Click to expand...

I have the same problem with dark colors and losing the planes against ground clutter. My brother's Taylorcraft is the worst I've flown with so far as it's a very dark navy blue on the wings and tail and the fuselage is white. Shouldn't be hard to spot right? WRONG. The blue blends in with the spruce trees and ground clutter as well as water extremely well and the fuselage just looks like a white dot which up here could be a patch of snow on a hillside. Hardest damn plane to follow ever (especially since he's a few MPH faster than my J3 in cruise).

Black is pretty bad for spotting. I prefer a brighter plane in case something goes wrong and search and rescue is ever trying to find my plane from the air.
 
bob turner said:
I HATE BLACK AIRCRAFT!

Sorry for shouting. We have a fleet of black Cessnas and Cherokees, and three or four black helicopters based at MYF. When you are above them they disappear. I mean, you cannot see them!

Ditto with olive drab. I am helping recover a Taylorcraft L-2, and the condition attached to my help is the aircraft remain Cub Yellow until I croak or am no longer flying.

I followed a 172 in two weeks ago. Tower said spacing was good, but I lost sight of her when she was on short final. Spacing worked, but it closed up pretty fast. Glad I had the tower helping.

Did I say I hate black aircraft?
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,
haha no worries for shouting, I got the point.
About if somebody see my or not in the air is not a big deal for me as I will be the only one in the air in many hundreds of miles around.



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I don't know about the weights of modern paints, but you may find this of interest.

Look at the TC for the Waco DGC-7, EGC-7 on page 2, item 309 where they list the additional weights of different colors of paint. Black adds 36 lbs to the empty weight. Not the heaviest as French Grey adds 51 lbs.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/bf98e6d0fae5df048525673f005d1696/$FILE/ATC639.pdf
 
Rocket Ron’s PA22 is black....his reason for black....frost melts off quickly on those cold winter mornings.


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RedOwlAirfield said:
DWM;

My experience has been different than others who've replied here. Every black airplane I've ever seen in flight has been super easy to see - much more so than white airplanes. (note I dislike white airplanes because they seem to disappear - in my experience)

Airplane color is one of my pet peeves so please forgive me, but we all paint aircraft to be pleasing to look at, rather than easy to see. I'd much rather fly an ugly airplane that can be seen easily than a pretty one in which I'm going to get run over because it blends in. I've read articles claiming that the easiest colors to see in the sky are International Safety Orange and International Safety Yellow.

That being said, black on a fabric airplane is a bold choice because of the challenges presented by the color to the underlying fabric. I wouldn't not try it, but I would monitor the end result carefully.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your opinion


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
skywagon8a said:
I don't know about the weights of modern paints, but you may find this of interest.

Look at the TC for the Waco DGC-7, EGC-7 on page 2, item 309 where they list the additional weights of different colors of paint. Black adds 36 lbs to the empty weight. Not the heaviest as French Grey adds 51 lbs.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/bf98e6d0fae5df048525673f005d1696/$FILE/ATC639.pdf
Click to expand...

I don't know in between different colors, but it looks like there is a noticeable difference in weight in between using the heavier polyurethane (Ranthane) or the lighter vinyl base paint (Poly-Tone).




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RedOwlAirfield said:
DWM;


Airplane color is one of my pet peeves so please forgive me, but we all paint aircraft to be pleasing to look at, rather than easy to see. I'd much rather fly an ugly airplane that can be seen easily than a pretty one in which I'm going to get run over because it blends in. I've read articles claiming that the easiest colors to see in the sky are International Safety Orange and International Safety Yellow.
Click to expand...

I've thought about this quite a lot and wondered why there aren't more orange airplanes out there. My ride is brown with yellow stripes, but if (when) I repaint it, I'll likely go with blaze orange. I like the look, but mostly I like to be visible.
 
I can count 7 black Cubs that I know off the top of my head. I haven't heard anything negative from the owners.

When I chose my paint scheme for the Wildcat it was blue and gray. The orange was a late addition and without question it's what people see and comment about.
 
Brian M said:
I've thought about this quite a lot and wondered why there aren't more orange airplanes out there. My ride is brown with yellow stripes, but if (when) I repaint it, I'll likely go with blaze orange. I like the look, but mostly I like to be visible.
Click to expand...

Here where I live (in a hugh ranch in the middle of Patagonia) to be visible by other airplanes is something I do not care much. I am more worried about the downside of having a dark color exposed to the sun, although it is not too hot. I love the looking of a black airplane, I find it very unusual.


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A local guy had a black RV6 that was bad about avgas coming out of the vent tubes if it was topped off when parked in the sun, it didn’t take long at all for the gas to heat up and expand. Can’t imagine that would be great on a fabric plane.
 
CenterHillAg said:
A local guy had a black RV6 that was bad about avgas coming out of the vent tubes if it was topped off when parked in the sun, it didn’t take long at all for the gas to heat up and expand. Can’t imagine that would be great on a fabric plane.
Click to expand...

If the fabric plane is painted with polyurethane, nothing should happen since it’s resistant to chemical products.


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dwm said:
If the fabric plane is painted with polyurethane, nothing should happen since it’s resistant to chemical products.
Click to expand...

The yellow PPG DUHS paint used by CubCrafters is easily stained by the blue dye in 100LL. Almost impossible to remove if left more than a few hours.
 
frequent_flyer said:
The yellow PPG DUHS paint used by CubCrafters is easily stained by the blue dye in 100LL. Almost impossible to remove if left more than a few hours.
Click to expand...

the same happens for the Poly-Tone (the gray color CubCrafters use for the belly and wings) which vinyl base paint, if you do not clean the fuel, bugs, bird droppings, etc for a long time then the stain does not come off.


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dwm said:
The pre-shrunk tapes are the same Polyfiber tapes but pre heated before applying them or are different tapes? If are the same, how do you pre-shrink them (at which temperature)?


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Click to expand...
They are different tapes; already shrunk when you get the new roll. You can't pre shrink your own tapes; at least I have never seen that done. Aircraft fabric shrinks 10% as you go through the shrinking process from 250-350 degrees. Preshrunk tapes will not shrink and can't be used in any area where heat is needed to form the tape, like around a wing tip. As the name implies, the fabric is preshrunk and will no longer shrink like standard tapes when exposed to heat.
Marty57
 
We have a new flight school with butt-ugly Cherokees. Truly ugly paint scheme, blue and white. But by golly you can spot them miles out! Hard to argue with success.

I prefer an orange yellow. The Tcart gets 140 PolyTone. Looks great so far.
 
Just like a black car, every bit of dust and dirt stands out like a sore thumb. Makes for a miserable looking freshly painted plane.

There is something about how light and shadow work on a black Cub that make it look like its time for a recover. I drive by a black Cub at Lake Hood and I know for a fact when it was painted. Its never looked good.
 
Last edited:
The financier J.P. Morgan once said "there are only 2 colors for a boat, white or black, and only a fool would paint his black".
Of course this was for boats, but pretty specific.
John
 
092A6E9E-F723-44ED-8001-4B6BD96E776C.jpeg

I fly a black 170. It does get warm in the direct sun, great for getting the frost off in colder weather. Hasn’t been a problem in the summer. Of course it’s not fabric.
 

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At least he won’t get hit from behind. That 170, however - a Cirrus driver could corkscrew right in to his black . . .
 
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